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new embedded forth

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  new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 09:45 -0700
    Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-09-02 13:01 -0500
      Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 11:08 -0700
        Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-09-02 13:48 -0500
    Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-11 23:45 -0700
      Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-09-12 09:51 -0500
        Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 13:15 -0700
          Re: new embedded forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 22:46 +0200
            Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 14:30 -0700
          Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 01:11 -0700
            Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 01:32 -0700
              Re: new embedded forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-13 11:13 +0200
                Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 10:25 -0700
                  Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 13:55 -0400
              Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 02:37 -0700
      Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 21:39 -0400
        Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 18:57 -0700
          Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 22:13 -0400
            Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 19:26 -0700
              Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 13:46 -0400
                Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 15:59 -0700
                  Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 19:06 -0400
                    Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-30 17:37 -0700
                      Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 10:41 -0400
                        Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-03 13:21 -0700
                    Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-30 17:50 -0700
                Re: new embedded forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-14 07:45 +0200
                  Re: new embedded forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-30 15:32 +0200
        Re: new embedded forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-13 11:14 +0200
    Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 04:44 -0700
      Re: new embedded forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-10-07 04:59 -0700
        Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 05:45 -0700
          Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 10:57 -0400
            Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-08 10:06 -0500
            Re: new embedded forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-10-08 08:16 -0700
      Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-07 12:25 -0500

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#50952

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> In this case it works because Espressif is using the CPU internally to
> their parts.  A bastard offshoot of a mainstream processor won't get
> much attention from the large vendors because while specifics for a
> given design will change as a product matures, they often aren't
> willing to toss out the entire body of software and start over. 

Weren't we just saying that unit price was everything?  I don't see a
body of software needing to be tossed either.  It's a me-too 32-bit
architecture in the same class as the Cortex M3, more or less.  Low
level code (bootup etc) is supplied in a toolkit from Espressif.  After
that I'd expect it's mostly programmed in higher level languages, so
there might be some normal porting effort (change some peripheral
drivers etc) involved in migrating to a different chip, but otherwise
it's a matter of reconfiguring the compiler to the new target.  It
doesn't seem like a huge deal.

> Espressif is happy with this core as they won't have any trouble
> supporting it but will have to fund the next generation
> themselves. Will they ever be price competitive if they have to break
> in the new process generation 100% on their own?

They're fabless, their new part is done on TSMC 40nm, not sure about the
old one.  TSMC is still behind Intel but they're pretty far up there.

> Espressif will find they are the AMD of the market always 6 months
> behind their competitors with higher power and slower speeds

They're not making servers or desktops--their part is fast enough for
its market (and the new one is dual core).  It wouldn't surprise me if
the cpu power consumption is worse than a comparable ARM and that would
matter more to people, but the chip's specialty is wireless comms, so
its total power usage will probably be dominated by the radios.

>> For some reason bluetooth stuff is more expensive than wifi stuff 
> Really?  Where do you see that?

See http://wemos.cc for a complete ESP8266 board which is Espressif's
wifi chip.  It's comparable to small ARM boards seen around here, but
with wifi.  If you click "buy it" you get an order page where you can
buy them for $4.00 and there are some knockoffs that are under $3.00 for
the complete board.  I don't know of anything that cheap with Bluetooth.
These boards (lots of vendors are making them) are very popular in the
maker community and the Micropython guys are putting significant effort
into supporting them.

Here's the new version (ESP32, not yet shipping) which does have
Bluetooth:

https://www.seeedstudio.com/ESP3212-Wifi-Bluetooth-Combo-Module-p-2706.html

The amount of stuff on that chip is amazing and at $7 it's the first
counterexample I've seen to "bluetooth is more expensive" (Nordic and TI
based modules have less stuff and are in the $20 range).  That module is
a quite powerful computer system in its own right even without the
wireless, comparable to the ARM Launchpads or ST Discovery boards, but
smaller than a matchbook and ridiculously cheap.  Yes, $7 is more than
$3, but it also has wifi and a ton more features.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#51492

On 9/13/2016 6:59 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> In this case it works because Espressif is using the CPU internally to
>> their parts.  A bastard offshoot of a mainstream processor won't get
>> much attention from the large vendors because while specifics for a
>> given design will change as a product matures, they often aren't
>> willing to toss out the entire body of software and start over.
>
> Weren't we just saying that unit price was everything?  I don't see a
> body of software needing to be tossed either.  It's a me-too 32-bit
> architecture in the same class as the Cortex M3, more or less.  Low
> level code (bootup etc) is supplied in a toolkit from Espressif.  After
> that I'd expect it's mostly programmed in higher level languages, so
> there might be some normal porting effort (change some peripheral
> drivers etc) involved in migrating to a different chip, but otherwise
> it's a matter of reconfiguring the compiler to the new target.  It
> doesn't seem like a huge deal.

Yeah, I think you may be right on this.  If they have enough volume to 
amortize the added NRE, then this might be cheaper than paying a per 
chip license fee.  But how much can that fee be?  I wonder how many 
chips/modules they are planning to sell?


>> Espressif is happy with this core as they won't have any trouble
>> supporting it but will have to fund the next generation
>> themselves. Will they ever be price competitive if they have to break
>> in the new process generation 100% on their own?
>
> They're fabless, their new part is done on TSMC 40nm, not sure about the
> old one.  TSMC is still behind Intel but they're pretty far up there.

40 nm is not even close to the front runners.  I believe that is two 
generations (about four years) behind the 22 nm stuff most are making 
now and I believe Intel is coming out with 15 nm very soon.  But that 
may not be so important.


>> Espressif will find they are the AMD of the market always 6 months
>> behind their competitors with higher power and slower speeds
>
> They're not making servers or desktops--their part is fast enough for
> its market (and the new one is dual core).  It wouldn't surprise me if
> the cpu power consumption is worse than a comparable ARM and that would
> matter more to people, but the chip's specialty is wireless comms, so
> its total power usage will probably be dominated by the radios.

There is power, but also chip cost from not being on the cutting edge of 
the processing.  But then often lower end SOCs aren't on the cutting 
edge because making the core smaller doesn't make the chip smaller given 
the number of I/Os.  Pads are large.

However... companies like Samsung and TI can get a chip out with the 
best technologies as soon as possible after a new process generation is 
online.  Being fabless means you have to wait for the fab company to get 
their process working before you can really shift your design into gear 
and get it make.  This ads delay to the product introduction... if they 
are using the latest process.


>>> For some reason bluetooth stuff is more expensive than wifi stuff
>> Really?  Where do you see that?
>
> See http://wemos.cc for a complete ESP8266 board which is Espressif's
> wifi chip.  It's comparable to small ARM boards seen around here, but
> with wifi.  If you click "buy it" you get an order page where you can
> buy them for $4.00 and there are some knockoffs that are under $3.00 for
> the complete board.  I don't know of anything that cheap with Bluetooth.
> These boards (lots of vendors are making them) are very popular in the
> maker community and the Micropython guys are putting significant effort
> into supporting them.
>
> Here's the new version (ESP32, not yet shipping) which does have
> Bluetooth:
>
> https://www.seeedstudio.com/ESP3212-Wifi-Bluetooth-Combo-Module-p-2706.html
>
> The amount of stuff on that chip is amazing and at $7 it's the first
> counterexample I've seen to "bluetooth is more expensive" (Nordic and TI
> based modules have less stuff and are in the $20 range).  That module is
> a quite powerful computer system in its own right even without the
> wireless, comparable to the ARM Launchpads or ST Discovery boards, but
> smaller than a matchbook and ridiculously cheap.  Yes, $7 is more than
> $3, but it also has wifi and a ton more features.

I can't seem to find any of the development tools.  Do you know where to 
find them?  One link I found to an Arduino forum seems to be broken, 
even when I find it through the forum index.  I wonder what that is 
about?  Everything I find on the ESP3212 is the exact same info with no 
details.  All the sites I've found mention

• SDK Firmware for fast on-line programming
• Open source toolchains based on GCC

But no links.  No one has them in stock either, one site claiming a 
problem with the chip.  Seeed says they've shipped two batches already.

-- 

Rick C

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#51497

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> Yeah, I think you may be right on this.  If they have enough volume to
> amortize the added NRE, then this might be cheaper than paying a per
> chip license fee.  But how much can that fee be?  I wonder how many
> chips/modules they are planning to sell?

Actually the relationship between companies seems to be that Tensilica
(US company founded by ex-MIPS people) designed the LX series cores and
licenses out the IP, so in that way they compete with ARM.  Espressif
(Chinese chip vendor) buys those CPU licenses, adds stuff of their own,
and gets the chips made at TSMC.  So the conclusion would seem to be
that Tensilica charges enough less than ARM for comparable CPU licenses,
that Espressif saw it as a better deal.

>> They're fabless, their new part is done on TSMC 40nm
> 40 nm is not even close to the front runners.  I believe that is two
> generations (about four years) behind the 22 nm stuff most are making
> now and I believe Intel is coming out with 15 nm very soon.  But that
> may not be so important.

Intel has 14nm now, and I think TSMC has 16mm.  But those are only used
for high cost or very high volume devices.  40nm is still advanced and
expensive and I'm not used to seeing these embedded MCUs made with such
a small process.  The TI Stellaris was made in 130nm, for example.  That
Espressif is using 40nm makes me think they intend quite high volume.
Their chip can implement a whole wifi router, IP camera, or whatever.
That's usually done with small Linux boards these days.

> But then often lower end SOCs aren't on the cutting edge because
> making the core smaller doesn't make the chip smaller given the number
> of I/Os.  Pads are large.

I know the ESP8266 didn't have many i/o pins and that was a common
complaint.  I think the ESP32 adds more.

> I can't seem to find any of the [ESP32] development tools.  Do you
> know where to find them? 

You can look on esp32.net but ISTM that the stuff is not really there
yet.  It took a while for the 8266 as well, so I'm not worried.

> But no links.  No one has them in stock either, one site claiming a
> problem with the chip.

I've heard that too, that they are spinning a new revision.  Do you
remember which site mentioned the problem?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#51508

On 9/30/2016 8:37 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> Yeah, I think you may be right on this.  If they have enough volume to
>> amortize the added NRE, then this might be cheaper than paying a per
>> chip license fee.  But how much can that fee be?  I wonder how many
>> chips/modules they are planning to sell?
>
> Actually the relationship between companies seems to be that Tensilica
> (US company founded by ex-MIPS people) designed the LX series cores and
> licenses out the IP, so in that way they compete with ARM.  Espressif
> (Chinese chip vendor) buys those CPU licenses, adds stuff of their own,
> and gets the chips made at TSMC.  So the conclusion would seem to be
> that Tensilica charges enough less than ARM for comparable CPU licenses,
> that Espressif saw it as a better deal.
>
>>> They're fabless, their new part is done on TSMC 40nm
>> 40 nm is not even close to the front runners.  I believe that is two
>> generations (about four years) behind the 22 nm stuff most are making
>> now and I believe Intel is coming out with 15 nm very soon.  But that
>> may not be so important.
>
> Intel has 14nm now, and I think TSMC has 16mm.  But those are only used
> for high cost or very high volume devices.  40nm is still advanced and
> expensive and I'm not used to seeing these embedded MCUs made with such
> a small process.  The TI Stellaris was made in 130nm, for example.  That
> Espressif is using 40nm makes me think they intend quite high volume.
> Their chip can implement a whole wifi router, IP camera, or whatever.
> That's usually done with small Linux boards these days.
>
>> But then often lower end SOCs aren't on the cutting edge because
>> making the core smaller doesn't make the chip smaller given the number
>> of I/Os.  Pads are large.
>
> I know the ESP8266 didn't have many i/o pins and that was a common
> complaint.  I think the ESP32 adds more.
>
>> I can't seem to find any of the [ESP32] development tools.  Do you
>> know where to find them?
>
> You can look on esp32.net but ISTM that the stuff is not really there
> yet.  It took a while for the 8266 as well, so I'm not worried.

I'm not worried, but I have no interest in considering them further 
until the tools are available.  I don't care how small the package or 
how cheap the module, no tools, no use for it.


>> But no links.  No one has them in stock either, one site claiming a
>> problem with the chip.
>
> I've heard that too, that they are spinning a new revision.  Do you
> remember which site mentioned the problem?

There aren't many sites talking about this chip.  It won't be hard to 
find.  Firefox crashed and I fat fingered the recovery, so the web pages 
are all lost now.

-- 

Rick C

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#51581

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>> [ESP32] development tools.  Do you know where to find them?

There's ESP32 stuff here now and I'm told that it works:

  https://github.com/jmattsson/nodemcu-prebuilt-toolchains
  https://github.com/espressif/esp-idf

I haven't tried it.

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#51498

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> I can't seem to find any of the development tools.  Do you know where
> to find them? 

I should mention, there is a Tensilica toolchain, mentioned here:

https://www.adafruit.com/products/3269

I also notice tensilica.com redirects to ip.cadence.com.  Here's a
Cadence page with a link to a Tensilica SDK "15 days free" which doesn't
sound very open:

  http://ip.cadence.com/ipportfolio/tensilica-ip

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#50955

On 9/12/2016 10:26 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> My hazy understanding is something like:
>
> 1) Espressif doesn't license a core, they designed it themselves.
> 2) It's not literally a MIPS instruction set--it just resembles MIPS
>    and presumably avoids any restrictions that would get in their way.

My understanding is that the ESP8266 uses the Xtensa LX3 core from
Tensilica.  The instructions are usually 24 bits long, with some
additional 16-bit encodings if the "code density" option is enabled.
It's a typical regular load-store RISC instruction set, so in that sense
it resembles MIPS.

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#51477

Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> writes:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> My hazy understanding is something like:
>> 1) Espressif doesn't license a core, they designed it themselves.
>> 2) It's not literally a MIPS instruction set--it just resembles MIPS
>>    and presumably avoids any restrictions that would get in their way.
>
> My understanding is that the ESP8266 uses the Xtensa LX3 core from
> Tensilica.  The instructions are usually 24 bits long, with some
> additional 16-bit encodings if the "code density" option is enabled.
> It's a typical regular load-store RISC instruction set, so in that sense
> it resembles MIPS.

The founder of Tensilica was also one of the founders of MIPS
Technologies, so there may indeed be a family resemblance.

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#50930

In article <nr7lcb$npp$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 9/12/2016 2:45 AM, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> writes:
>>> FAST FORTH is small: < 6kb ...  MSP430FR5738...
>>
>> Do you think it could work on the MSP430G2553?  That one's of interest
>> because of its PDIP package and use in the original Launchpad.
>>
>> Do you think TI cares much about the MSP430 line any more, vs. mostly
>> concentrating on ARM?
>
>Why would you think TI didn't care about the MSP430?  They sell a whole
>bunch of them and likely there is no ARM that will fill exactly the
>niche of some of the MSPs when you consider all the factors.
>
>I think every processor can fit in mainstream sockets so the selection
>often is one of pennies for really high volumes or engineer's preference
>for lesser volumes (which makers don't really care much about).  It is
>the corner cases that determine which processor you use based on
>technical reasons.  Otherwise it is just price for the big jobs.  I
>don't think the MSP430 looses on price a lot and can often fit niches
>that other MCU lines don't necessarily fit.

Spot on!

>
>--
>
>Rick C
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#51665

Le vendredi 2 septembre 2016 18:45:35 UTC+2, Jean-Michel Thoorens a écrit :
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am pleased to inform you of a new embedded FORTH: "FAST FORTH."
> 
> My goal was to quickly develop code for a small microcontroller.
> And as when one program is eager to see the result on the target, it is best to reduce interfaces and to ensure that those that are essential to be fast.
> 
> After much trial and error, I have come to this: a text editor (Scite), a serial communication software (TeraTerm), a USB to UART bridge (PL2303TA cable, $ 2) and finally the target, a MSP430FR5738 whose FRAM lets not waste time compiling... and, unfortunately ? Windows 10.
> 
> Written in assembler, FAST FORTH is small: < 6kb ... with its own embedded assembler.
> 
> And fast. The serial link uses the XON / XOFF protocol which overcomes the famous 50 ms delay between each line : with a MSP430 clocked at 8 MHz (and TeraTerm), reliable communication can be done up to 1,843,200 bds.
> 
> Interest is the end result. With my own version of FAST FORTH (16 threads) on a MSP430FR5738 @ 24 MHz & 6Mbds, coretest.4th is loaded, compiled and executed, all in 1/3 second (real baud rate = 1Mbds).
> 
> I hope it will appeal to hackers.
> 
> Regards,
> J.M. Thoorens
> 
> https://gitlab.com/Jean-Michel/FastForthForMSP430fr5xxx



and now, as I retire from FORTH guru, I publish the full version of FAST FORTH for MSP430 FRAM devices, with dictionaries stranded, which divides up 4 the interpretation time.

I dedicate it to my wife and patience.

Good luck to FORTH.

J.M. THOORENS

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#51666

On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 12:44:26 PM UTC+1, Jean-Michel Thoorens wrote:
> Le vendredi 2 septembre 2016 18:45:35 UTC+2, Jean-Michel Thoorens a écrit :
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> > I am pleased to inform you of a new embedded FORTH: "FAST FORTH."
> > 
> > My goal was to quickly develop code for a small microcontroller.
> > And as when one program is eager to see the result on the target, it is best to reduce interfaces and to ensure that those that are essential to be fast.
> > 
> > After much trial and error, I have come to this: a text editor (Scite), a serial communication software (TeraTerm), a USB to UART bridge (PL2303TA cable, $ 2) and finally the target, a MSP430FR5738 whose FRAM lets not waste time compiling... and, unfortunately ? Windows 10.
> > 
> > Written in assembler, FAST FORTH is small: < 6kb ... with its own embedded assembler.
> > 
> > And fast. The serial link uses the XON / XOFF protocol which overcomes the famous 50 ms delay between each line : with a MSP430 clocked at 8 MHz (and TeraTerm), reliable communication can be done up to 1,843,200 bds.
> > 
> > Interest is the end result. With my own version of FAST FORTH (16 threads) on a MSP430FR5738 @ 24 MHz & 6Mbds, coretest.4th is loaded, compiled and executed, all in 1/3 second (real baud rate = 1Mbds).
> > 
> > I hope it will appeal to hackers.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > J.M. Thoorens
> > 
> > https://gitlab.com/Jean-Michel/FastForthForMSP430fr5xxx
> 
> 
> 
> and now, as I retire from FORTH guru, I publish the full version of FAST FORTH for MSP430 FRAM devices, with dictionaries stranded, which divides up 4 the interpretation time.
> 
> I dedicate it to my wife and patience.
> 
> Good luck to FORTH.
> 
> J.M. THOORENS

Had a quick look on github - very well documented. 
You say you retire - or do you mean step back. Will you continue to maintain it?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#51667

Le vendredi 7 octobre 2016 13:59:41 UTC+2, JUERGEN a écrit :
> On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 12:44:26 PM UTC+1, Jean-Michel Thoorens wrote:
> > Le vendredi 2 septembre 2016 18:45:35 UTC+2, Jean-Michel Thoorens a écrit :
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > 
> > > I am pleased to inform you of a new embedded FORTH: "FAST FORTH."
> > > 
> > > My goal was to quickly develop code for a small microcontroller.
> > > And as when one program is eager to see the result on the target, it is best to reduce interfaces and to ensure that those that are essential to be fast.
> > > 
> > > After much trial and error, I have come to this: a text editor (Scite), a serial communication software (TeraTerm), a USB to UART bridge (PL2303TA cable, $ 2) and finally the target, a MSP430FR5738 whose FRAM lets not waste time compiling... and, unfortunately ? Windows 10.
> > > 
> > > Written in assembler, FAST FORTH is small: < 6kb ... with its own embedded assembler.
> > > 
> > > And fast. The serial link uses the XON / XOFF protocol which overcomes the famous 50 ms delay between each line : with a MSP430 clocked at 8 MHz (and TeraTerm), reliable communication can be done up to 1,843,200 bds.
> > > 
> > > Interest is the end result. With my own version of FAST FORTH (16 threads) on a MSP430FR5738 @ 24 MHz & 6Mbds, coretest.4th is loaded, compiled and executed, all in 1/3 second (real baud rate = 1Mbds).
> > > 
> > > I hope it will appeal to hackers.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > J.M. Thoorens
> > > 
> > > https://gitlab.com/Jean-Michel/FastForthForMSP430fr5xxx
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > and now, as I retire from FORTH guru, I publish the full version of FAST FORTH for MSP430 FRAM devices, with dictionaries stranded, which divides up 4 the interpretation time.
> > 
> > I dedicate it to my wife and patience.
> > 
> > Good luck to FORTH.
> > 
> > J.M. THOORENS
> 
> Had a quick look on github - very well documented. 
> You say you retire - or do you mean step back. Will you continue to maintain it?

maintain, this means continue through against answering questions is to transmit.

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#51699

On 10/7/2016 8:45 AM, Jean-Michel Thoorens wrote:
> Le vendredi 7 octobre 2016 13:59:41 UTC+2, JUERGEN a écrit :
>> On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 12:44:26 PM UTC+1, Jean-Michel Thoorens wrote:
>>> Le vendredi 2 septembre 2016 18:45:35 UTC+2, Jean-Michel Thoorens a écrit :
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I am pleased to inform you of a new embedded FORTH: "FAST FORTH."
>>>>
>>>> My goal was to quickly develop code for a small microcontroller.
>>>> And as when one program is eager to see the result on the target, it is best to reduce interfaces and to ensure that those that are essential to be fast.
>>>>
>>>> After much trial and error, I have come to this: a text editor (Scite), a serial communication software (TeraTerm), a USB to UART bridge (PL2303TA cable, $ 2) and finally the target, a MSP430FR5738 whose FRAM lets not waste time compiling... and, unfortunately ? Windows 10.
>>>>
>>>> Written in assembler, FAST FORTH is small: < 6kb ... with its own embedded assembler.
>>>>
>>>> And fast. The serial link uses the XON / XOFF protocol which overcomes the famous 50 ms delay between each line : with a MSP430 clocked at 8 MHz (and TeraTerm), reliable communication can be done up to 1,843,200 bds.
>>>>
>>>> Interest is the end result. With my own version of FAST FORTH (16 threads) on a MSP430FR5738 @ 24 MHz & 6Mbds, coretest.4th is loaded, compiled and executed, all in 1/3 second (real baud rate = 1Mbds).
>>>>
>>>> I hope it will appeal to hackers.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> J.M. Thoorens
>>>>
>>>> https://gitlab.com/Jean-Michel/FastForthForMSP430fr5xxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> and now, as I retire from FORTH guru, I publish the full version of FAST FORTH for MSP430 FRAM devices, with dictionaries stranded, which divides up 4 the interpretation time.
>>>
>>> I dedicate it to my wife and patience.
>>>
>>> Good luck to FORTH.
>>>
>>> J.M. THOORENS
>>
>> Had a quick look on github - very well documented.
>> You say you retire - or do you mean step back. Will you continue to maintain it?
>
> maintain, this means continue through against answering questions is to transmit.

Something tells me the translation is being done by computer rather than 
just English as a second language???

-- 

Rick C

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#51701

On 10/8/2016 9:57 AM, rickman wrote:
> On 10/7/2016 8:45 AM, Jean-Michel Thoorens wrote:
>> Le vendredi 7 octobre 2016 13:59:41 UTC+2, JUERGEN a écrit :
>>> On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 12:44:26 PM UTC+1, Jean-Michel Thoorens
>>> wrote:
>>>> Le vendredi 2 septembre 2016 18:45:35 UTC+2, Jean-Michel Thoorens a
>>>> écrit :
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am pleased to inform you of a new embedded FORTH: "FAST FORTH."
>>>>>
>>>>> My goal was to quickly develop code for a small microcontroller.
>>>>> And as when one program is eager to see the result on the target,
>>>>> it is best to reduce interfaces and to ensure that those that are
>>>>> essential to be fast.
>>>>>
>>>>> After much trial and error, I have come to this: a text editor
>>>>> (Scite), a serial communication software (TeraTerm), a USB to UART
>>>>> bridge (PL2303TA cable, $ 2) and finally the target, a MSP430FR5738
>>>>> whose FRAM lets not waste time compiling... and, unfortunately ?
>>>>> Windows 10.
>>>>>
>>>>> Written in assembler, FAST FORTH is small: < 6kb ... with its own
>>>>> embedded assembler.
>>>>>
>>>>> And fast. The serial link uses the XON / XOFF protocol which
>>>>> overcomes the famous 50 ms delay between each line : with a MSP430
>>>>> clocked at 8 MHz (and TeraTerm), reliable communication can be done
>>>>> up to 1,843,200 bds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Interest is the end result. With my own version of FAST FORTH (16
>>>>> threads) on a MSP430FR5738 @ 24 MHz & 6Mbds, coretest.4th is
>>>>> loaded, compiled and executed, all in 1/3 second (real baud rate =
>>>>> 1Mbds).
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope it will appeal to hackers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> J.M. Thoorens
>>>>>
>>>>> https://gitlab.com/Jean-Michel/FastForthForMSP430fr5xxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and now, as I retire from FORTH guru, I publish the full version of
>>>> FAST FORTH for MSP430 FRAM devices, with dictionaries stranded,
>>>> which divides up 4 the interpretation time.
>>>>
>>>> I dedicate it to my wife and patience.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck to FORTH.
>>>>
>>>> J.M. THOORENS
>>>
>>> Had a quick look on github - very well documented.
>>> You say you retire - or do you mean step back. Will you continue to
>>> maintain it?
>>
>> maintain, this means continue through against answering questions is
>> to transmit.
>
> Something tells me the translation is being done by computer rather than
> just English as a second language???
>

Computers are evil, aside from that if you didn't learn English as a 
second language in school there isn't a whole lot of choices.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#51702

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 3:57:38 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
> On 10/7/2016 8:45 AM, Jean-Michel Thoorens wrote:
> > Le vendredi 7 octobre 2016 13:59:41 UTC+2, JUERGEN a écrit :
> >> On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 12:44:26 PM UTC+1, Jean-Michel Thoorens wrote:
> >>> Le vendredi 2 septembre 2016 18:45:35 UTC+2, Jean-Michel Thoorens a écrit :
> >>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am pleased to inform you of a new embedded FORTH: "FAST FORTH."
> >>>>
> >>>> My goal was to quickly develop code for a small microcontroller.
> >>>> And as when one program is eager to see the result on the target, it is best to reduce interfaces and to ensure that those that are essential to be fast.
> >>>>
> >>>> After much trial and error, I have come to this: a text editor (Scite), a serial communication software (TeraTerm), a USB to UART bridge (PL2303TA cable, $ 2) and finally the target, a MSP430FR5738 whose FRAM lets not waste time compiling... and, unfortunately ? Windows 10.
> >>>>
> >>>> Written in assembler, FAST FORTH is small: < 6kb ... with its own embedded assembler.
> >>>>
> >>>> And fast. The serial link uses the XON / XOFF protocol which overcomes the famous 50 ms delay between each line : with a MSP430 clocked at 8 MHz (and TeraTerm), reliable communication can be done up to 1,843,200 bds.
> >>>>
> >>>> Interest is the end result. With my own version of FAST FORTH (16 threads) on a MSP430FR5738 @ 24 MHz & 6Mbds, coretest.4th is loaded, compiled and executed, all in 1/3 second (real baud rate = 1Mbds).
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope it will appeal to hackers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> J.M. Thoorens
> >>>>
> >>>> https://gitlab.com/Jean-Michel/FastForthForMSP430fr5xxx
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> and now, as I retire from FORTH guru, I publish the full version of FAST FORTH for MSP430 FRAM devices, with dictionaries stranded, which divides up 4 the interpretation time.
> >>>
> >>> I dedicate it to my wife and patience.
> >>>
> >>> Good luck to FORTH.
> >>>
> >>> J.M. THOORENS
> >>
> >> Had a quick look on github - very well documented.
> >> You say you retire - or do you mean step back. Will you continue to maintain it?
> >
> > maintain, this means continue through against answering questions is to transmit.
> 
> Something tells me the translation is being done by computer rather than 
> just English as a second language???
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick C

well, if it is just something telling you - then it is very well done and corrected by hand 

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#51672

Thank You for making this software available.

On 10/7/2016 6:44 AM, Jean-Michel Thoorens wrote:
> Le vendredi 2 septembre 2016 18:45:35 UTC+2, Jean-Michel Thoorens a écrit :
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I am pleased to inform you of a new embedded FORTH: "FAST FORTH."
>>
>> My goal was to quickly develop code for a small microcontroller.
>> And as when one program is eager to see the result on the target, it is best to reduce interfaces and to ensure that those that are essential to be fast.
>>
>> After much trial and error, I have come to this: a text editor (Scite), a serial communication software (TeraTerm), a USB to UART bridge (PL2303TA cable, $ 2) and finally the target, a MSP430FR5738 whose FRAM lets not waste time compiling... and, unfortunately ? Windows 10.
>>
>> Written in assembler, FAST FORTH is small: < 6kb ... with its own embedded assembler.
>>
>> And fast. The serial link uses the XON / XOFF protocol which overcomes the famous 50 ms delay between each line : with a MSP430 clocked at 8 MHz (and TeraTerm), reliable communication can be done up to 1,843,200 bds.
>>
>> Interest is the end result. With my own version of FAST FORTH (16 threads) on a MSP430FR5738 @ 24 MHz & 6Mbds, coretest.4th is loaded, compiled and executed, all in 1/3 second (real baud rate = 1Mbds).
>>
>> I hope it will appeal to hackers.
>>
>> Regards,
>> J.M. Thoorens
>>
>> https://gitlab.com/Jean-Michel/FastForthForMSP430fr5xxx
>
>
>
> and now, as I retire from FORTH guru, I publish the full version of FAST FORTH for MSP430 FRAM devices, with dictionaries stranded, which divides up 4 the interpretation time.
>
> I dedicate it to my wife and patience.
>
> Good luck to FORTH.
>
> J.M. THOORENS
>

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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