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Re: new embedded forth

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rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> In this case it works because Espressif is using the CPU internally to
> their parts.  A bastard offshoot of a mainstream processor won't get
> much attention from the large vendors because while specifics for a
> given design will change as a product matures, they often aren't
> willing to toss out the entire body of software and start over. 

Weren't we just saying that unit price was everything?  I don't see a
body of software needing to be tossed either.  It's a me-too 32-bit
architecture in the same class as the Cortex M3, more or less.  Low
level code (bootup etc) is supplied in a toolkit from Espressif.  After
that I'd expect it's mostly programmed in higher level languages, so
there might be some normal porting effort (change some peripheral
drivers etc) involved in migrating to a different chip, but otherwise
it's a matter of reconfiguring the compiler to the new target.  It
doesn't seem like a huge deal.

> Espressif is happy with this core as they won't have any trouble
> supporting it but will have to fund the next generation
> themselves. Will they ever be price competitive if they have to break
> in the new process generation 100% on their own?

They're fabless, their new part is done on TSMC 40nm, not sure about the
old one.  TSMC is still behind Intel but they're pretty far up there.

> Espressif will find they are the AMD of the market always 6 months
> behind their competitors with higher power and slower speeds

They're not making servers or desktops--their part is fast enough for
its market (and the new one is dual core).  It wouldn't surprise me if
the cpu power consumption is worse than a comparable ARM and that would
matter more to people, but the chip's specialty is wireless comms, so
its total power usage will probably be dominated by the radios.

>> For some reason bluetooth stuff is more expensive than wifi stuff 
> Really?  Where do you see that?

See http://wemos.cc for a complete ESP8266 board which is Espressif's
wifi chip.  It's comparable to small ARM boards seen around here, but
with wifi.  If you click "buy it" you get an order page where you can
buy them for $4.00 and there are some knockoffs that are under $3.00 for
the complete board.  I don't know of anything that cheap with Bluetooth.
These boards (lots of vendors are making them) are very popular in the
maker community and the Micropython guys are putting significant effort
into supporting them.

Here's the new version (ESP32, not yet shipping) which does have
Bluetooth:

https://www.seeedstudio.com/ESP3212-Wifi-Bluetooth-Combo-Module-p-2706.html

The amount of stuff on that chip is amazing and at $7 it's the first
counterexample I've seen to "bluetooth is more expensive" (Nordic and TI
based modules have less stuff and are in the $20 range).  That module is
a quite powerful computer system in its own right even without the
wireless, comparable to the ARM Launchpads or ST Discovery boards, but
smaller than a matchbook and ridiculously cheap.  Yes, $7 is more than
$3, but it also has wifi and a ton more features.

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new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 09:45 -0700
  Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-09-02 13:01 -0500
    Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-09-02 11:08 -0700
      Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-09-02 13:48 -0500
  Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-11 23:45 -0700
    Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-09-12 09:51 -0500
      Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 13:15 -0700
        Re: new embedded forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 22:46 +0200
          Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 14:30 -0700
        Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 01:11 -0700
          Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 01:32 -0700
            Re: new embedded forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-13 11:13 +0200
              Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 10:25 -0700
                Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 13:55 -0400
            Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 02:37 -0700
    Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 21:39 -0400
      Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 18:57 -0700
        Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-12 22:13 -0400
          Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-12 19:26 -0700
            Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 13:46 -0400
              Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 15:59 -0700
                Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-09-30 19:06 -0400
                Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-30 17:37 -0700
                Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 10:41 -0400
                Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-03 13:21 -0700
                Re: new embedded forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-30 17:50 -0700
              Re: new embedded forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-14 07:45 +0200
                Re: new embedded forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2016-09-30 15:32 +0200
      Re: new embedded forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-13 11:14 +0200
  Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 04:44 -0700
    Re: new embedded forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-10-07 04:59 -0700
      Re: new embedded forth Jean-Michel Thoorens <jeanmichel.thoorens@gmail.com> - 2016-10-07 05:45 -0700
        Re: new embedded forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-10-08 10:57 -0400
          Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-08 10:06 -0500
          Re: new embedded forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-10-08 08:16 -0700
    Re: new embedded forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2016-10-07 12:25 -0500

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