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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #37422
| From | "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth |
| Date | 2015-03-19 00:28 -0400 |
| Organization | Aioe.org NNTP Server |
| Message-ID | <op.xvp9c7otwa0t4m@localhost> (permalink) |
| References | <09b0d52b-de4f-4805-9cc1-fc1cc0499ac3@googlegroups.com> <op.xvnz1ra1v6dtjm@localhost> |
On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 19:11:41 -0400, Rod Pemberton <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> wrote: > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 15:47:17 -0400, JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote: >> Ting 34 WORDS >> Brinkhoff 12 >> Pilchota 17 >> B16 43 >> B16SMALL 40 >> GA_F18 45 > > Please note the misspelling of Plichota. > > C.H. Ting is eForth. > Lars Brinkhoff is lbForth. > Vic Plichota is v4th. > B16 and B16Small, I assume, are Bernd Paysan's ... > GA_F18 is GreenArrays F18. > >> I hope we got the numbers right - otherwise please correct and >> we will change the ExCel tables. >> >> But for a project we would like to have a list of words that >> fit into 4 bits - so 16 words max to be used. >> >> Any good suggestions? >> >> And NO, we do not want to reinvent Forth. >> The rest of the words can stay there for later. >> >> If you go on holiday to country X you might buy a little >> booklet at the airport to communicate with the locals >> (Forthers?), you definitely will not walk around with >> the Oxford Dictionary of the full word set ... > > The issue of the optimal wordset with different constraints, > e.g., minimal, usable, fast, effective, etc has been discussed > a number of times in the past on comp.lang.forth. > > It's a matter of how primitive you want to go. (pun intended) > A primitive (or low-level) Forth word is what does the work. > for Forths that build up their colon definitions from a small > wordset. This design trend started with C.H. Ting's eForth. > Primitives are the minimal unit of functionality. You either > can't factor them anymore, or shouldn't if you don't want your > Forth to be exceptionally slow. E.g., stack words, arithmetic, > logical operations, bitwise operations, etc. Typically, a > usable Forth wordset is from 23 to 63, but can range from 9 > to 2500 words > > E.g., this minimal wordset which comprises about half (50%) > of my set of primitives in my Forth, and is near thirty total: > > stack operations > DUP DROP SWAP OVER ROT >R R> > > branching > BRANCH ?BRANCH > > @ ! C@ C! > > arithmetic > + - * / > > comparison > < > 0= 0> > > bitwise > AND OR XOR > > stack pointers > RP SP DP > > I/O > KEY EMIT . > > bootstrapping words... > LIT , > > Of course, if you throw out a bunch, say OVER ROT C@ C! * / > 0> < RP SP DP and add NOT, you've still got 21 of them ... > How do you get rid of another 5 or so? > > E.g., I posted this some years ago which lists the primitive > counts for a total 20 Forths and Forth standards, as well as > the primitives used by a few Forths. Among the list of > primities, it has two sets of 9 minimal bootstrap words. > It's at the end of my post after my name. The link may take > to you one of Brad Eckert's post. Mine is after that. > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.forth/KHw28PKZXUk/JrXcjrYshxAJ > > You might want to look at Mikael Patel's Minimal Forth Machine > which has 9 primitives and was posted years ago to comp.lang.forth. > This post of mine has links: > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.forth/BxvCjAs4s9g/LZ4-7e8hfHMJ > > As for being ANS, you'll need to pick the ANS equivalents. Most > are named the same. You're not going to find some things you need > in ANS Core or ANS Core Ext such as LIT BRANCH ?BRANCH etc. > From Koopman's instruction frequencies, you might use these: DOCOL EXIT @ C@ + = R> >R DUP SWAP ROT AND LIT 0BRANCH BRANCH From Anton Ertl's "peep" superinstruction data, you could try using these for additional low-level words: 0= ! OVER CELLS 2DUP +! R@ <> C! /MOD DROP CELL+ - LSHIFT NIP ?DUP 2DROP Koopman's http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec6_3.html Ertl's http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/peep/ Rod Pemberton -- Cars kill more people than guns in the U.S. Yet, no one is trying to take away your car.
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What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-17 12:47 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-17 22:29 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-18 10:59 +0000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-18 12:04 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-18 11:19 +0000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-18 12:39 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-03-18 08:05 -1000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-18 18:34 +0000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-18 20:05 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2015-03-17 19:11 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-03-19 00:28 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 01:00 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-18 11:33 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-18 22:15 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-19 07:53 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-03-19 17:17 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 01:01 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-03-18 18:42 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-18 23:56 +0000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-19 02:46 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-19 09:27 +0000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-03-18 22:21 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-19 09:43 +0000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-03-20 02:09 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-20 15:41 +0000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-03-29 16:23 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 16:43 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-29 22:53 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-19 08:00 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-03-20 02:09 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-20 14:43 +0100
...Tiny targets Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-03-23 15:26 +0100
Re: ...Tiny targets Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 10:39 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-24 01:18 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-24 17:45 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-25 00:08 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-25 00:43 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets Gary Bergstrom <forthprgrmr@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 07:07 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-25 08:06 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 15:19 -0400
Re: ...Tiny targets Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-25 12:39 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-25 20:42 +0100
Re: ...Tiny targets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 16:41 -0400
Re: ...Tiny targets hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-25 22:32 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-26 09:35 +0000
Re: ...Tiny targets Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 14:52 +0200
Re: ...Tiny targets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 16:12 -0400
Re: ...Tiny targets albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-26 13:00 +0000
Re: ...Tiny targets anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-26 11:58 +0000
Re: ...Tiny targets JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-25 07:10 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-25 07:16 -0700
Re: ...Tiny targets Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-03-27 13:01 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Gary Bergstrom <forthprgrmr@gmail.com> - 2015-03-18 06:45 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-18 08:57 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-03-18 20:09 +0100
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-18 08:59 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-20 21:47 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-21 02:30 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-21 17:52 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2015-03-22 01:27 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 13:15 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 13:47 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-22 18:39 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a (limping) Beginner's ANS Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 16:32 -0700
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a(limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-26 06:35 +0000
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a(limping) Beginner's ANS Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 15:55 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a(limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "Rod Pemberton" <bork@lllljunkqwer.cpm> - 2015-03-28 03:36 -0400
Re: What is the minimum Word set you could live with to have a(limping) Beginner's ANS Forth "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-26 06:34 +0000
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