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Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN:

From Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN:
Date 2017-05-07 23:34 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <oeoatm$3p2$4@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <dJidncMN9rGNPpTEnZ2dnUU7-anNnZ2d@supernews.com> <2017May4.160014@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <ZOKdnZcItf2M_pbEnZ2dnUU7-UHNnZ2d@supernews.com> <oej7j8$j6c$2@dont-email.me> <BdKdnezS8sdOfZPEnZ2dnUU7-bfNnZ2d@supernews.com>

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Am Sun, 07 May 2017 03:54:43 -0500 schrieb Andrew Haley:

>> But your objection is "people will be able to shoot into their foot if
>> they are not careful"!
> 
> No, it's not.  It's more that the proposal is more general than is
> needed and its most far-out features will not help and at worst will
> increase the burden of maintanance.

What's the difference between "will increase the burden of maintenance" 
and "people will be able to shoot into their foot"?  Apart from the 
wording?

And about "more general than needed": Not according to my researches.  
The existing hooks cover everything including a full replacement of the 
Forth interpreter, which is why I actually can implement recognizers as 
proposed on VFX (and could do the same on SwiftForth, which is probably 
the next thing I do).

Every single hook that went into VFX went there, because one particular 
customer or implementer asked for one particular, limited-scope extension 
of the interpreter.  And it grew to exactly the same "everything is 
possible" situation we have with recognizers.  With the exception that 
each hook has its own special-purpose task and limitation, with the 
exception of the "replace the entire interpreter"-hook.

The same is true for SwiftForth.  Forth Inc. did not add as many hooks, 
but decided to add the general-purpose "replace everything" hook early on 
(COMPILING and INTERPRETING are the two deferred words), and by doing so 
likely muted any further request for special-purpose hooks.

We are already in the "here be dragons" country.  You make lame excuses 
that the dragon maybe is only a lizard, or a big bat or so, and someone 
has lighted a campfire.  No, the dragon is already there, hiding behind a 
bunch of hooks.

The only thing the recognizer proposal makes is to standardize these 
already existing, but wildly incompatible interpreter hooks.  And to do 
that, without taking any of the existing capabilities away, it must be as 
general as it is now.

Or maybe even more general, as SwiftForth's hooks also can replace the BL 
WORD or PARSE-NAME part of the outer interpreter.  We have discussed 
whether each recognizer should do the parsing itself or leave it to the 
fixed part of the proposal, and decided for the second: Forth source is 
words, i.e. blank-separated stuff.  The recognizer itself however can 
know that the addr u it gets is part of the current input buffer (i.e. 
SOURCE), and it is allowed to manipulate >IN if it recognizes something.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-30 03:31 +0100
  Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-29 20:21 -0700
    Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-30 03:30 -0500
      Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-30 09:51 +0000
        Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-30 07:50 -0500
          Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-30 14:05 +0100
            Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-30 08:11 -0500
              Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-30 14:18 +0100
          Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-30 14:01 +0000
            Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-30 15:36 +0100
              Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-05-01 01:48 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-01 11:13 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-05-01 04:40 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-01 18:01 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-05-01 11:42 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-01 20:47 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-05-01 13:56 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 14:07 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-01 23:17 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-01 22:33 +0100
              Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 03:49 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-02 12:27 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 11:42 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 11:41 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: john <anon@example.com> - 2017-05-02 12:13 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-02 09:42 -1000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-02 14:13 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 12:32 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-02 18:55 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 13:05 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 13:18 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 08:55 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 11:36 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-03 06:39 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-05-08 10:22 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 11:52 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-05-09 02:45 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-09 03:47 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-09 12:52 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 10:38 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 11:08 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-09 08:33 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-09 15:39 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-09 09:14 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 16:40 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-10 05:48 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 07:47 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 11:10 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-02 11:47 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-02 22:47 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:31 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 15:01 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 12:10 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-03 04:29 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-03 12:27 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 02:35 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 14:00 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-04 12:21 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-04 19:14 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-05 09:17 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-05 07:31 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-05 10:27 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-05 15:25 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-05 12:21 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-06 16:37 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-06 13:18 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-05 20:32 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-06 01:06 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 03:54 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-07 13:46 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-07 07:59 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-07 11:31 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-07 20:22 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-08 04:17 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 15:30 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 12:00 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 13:50 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-08 09:51 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 15:40 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-09 16:32 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 16:19 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-09 18:53 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-09 18:12 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 10:41 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-09 19:12 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-07 22:46 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 03:50 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-08 02:42 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-08 03:58 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-08 12:35 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-08 05:49 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-08 16:28 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-08 07:54 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-08 17:16 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-08 09:23 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 16:31 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: mhx@iae.nl - 2017-05-08 11:14 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-08 19:27 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-09 16:39 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-09 14:53 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-09 20:43 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-08 15:02 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-09 12:24 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-07 23:34 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 01:17 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-08 12:30 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 07:49 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 10:58 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 11:44 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 08:04 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-08 17:30 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 04:07 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 14:11 +0300
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-10 13:59 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 14:04 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 14:06 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 13:02 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: pahihu <pahihu@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 06:07 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 14:30 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 11:59 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-10 15:10 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 14:33 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-10 16:08 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 16:02 +0100
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 09:10 -0700
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-10 18:38 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-08 04:03 -0500
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-08 13:32 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-08 16:11 +0200
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-04 20:29 +0000
                Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-07 14:55 +0000
            Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-02 02:47 -0500
              Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-02 15:02 +0000
    Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-30 12:11 +0100
      Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-30 06:34 -0700
        Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 06:59 -0700
        Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-30 15:04 +0100
      Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 09:38 -0700
  Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-30 09:36 +0000
    Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-30 11:46 +0100
      Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-30 14:12 +0000
        Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-30 16:39 +0100
          Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 09:25 -0700
          Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-30 16:23 +0000
      Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 09:06 -0700
    Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-04-30 18:00 +0100
      Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-01 01:30 -0700
        Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-02 13:06 +0000
          Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: minforth@arcor.de - 2017-05-02 06:24 -0700
            Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 13:13 +0000
          Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: JennyB <jennybrien@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-03 04:20 -0700
            Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-04 15:17 +0000
      Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-02 12:46 +0000
        Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-03 07:58 +0100
          Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: mhx@iae.nl - 2017-05-03 10:52 -0700
  Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-04-30 08:51 -0700
  Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-04-30 22:54 +0000
    Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Matthias Trute <matthias.trute@gmail.com> - 2017-05-01 01:01 -0700
      Re: Recognizers and DT-TOKEN: Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2017-05-02 15:10 +0000

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