Groups > comp.lang.forth > #19013

Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis

From	"Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis
Date	2013-01-22 14:36 -0500
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<kdmplt$daq$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <1760170.UIzXAlGtkR@sunwukong.fritz.box> <ac332281-5f87-463a-8bcd-de34e1cb5f90@t6g2000pba.googlegroups.com> <kdlhv8$25n$1@speranza.aioe.org> <d44429cc-c638-49ce-b490-74005fea0faf@z9g2000vbx.googlegroups.com> <QrOdnZqmZNr8wWPNnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@supernews.com>

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"Andrew Haley" <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> wrote in message
news:QrOdnZqmZNr8wWPNnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@supernews.com...
> Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> wrote:

> > There's a point to JIT too, though there's less of a benefit
> > (just my opinion) - applications start up much much much
> > faster if the entire application does not have to be compiled
> > end-to-end.
>
> The biggest purely technical advantage of a JIT is that
> compliation is optimized for the exact environment in
> which a program is run,

A compiler can do that, if implemented.  Most do.

> [...] and the characteristics of the dataset it's being run on.
> You can't do that ahead of time.

What language requires information from the dataset in order to
optimize the code?  ...  I.e., that defeats the purpose of having
code in the first place.  Separation of code and data affects all
sorts of computer science concepts:  Harvard architecture, data
independence, locality of reference, etc.

> The most advanced JITs will even recompile a routine
> that is live on the call stack.

Modern processors should be able to block that.  Active code on
the call stack is part of the typical method behind buffer
overflow exploits.

> Compare this with native compilers that typically have no idea
> of which processor the code will be run on -- could be Pentium
> Pro, could be K8, could be Sandy Bridge -- and have to do the
> best they can.

A compiler can query or be told what target to compile for.  I
prefer telling the compiler what to do instead of having it guess.
In the case of JIT, as an end-user, I can't tell the JIT what
target to compile for, if it's incorrect or there is some issue
with the generated code for the appropriate target.  I'm stuck
with whatever was implemented, even if broken.

> This isn't a problem when you're compiling a program for
> yourself, but it is when you're distributing binaries.

No, it's not a problem for code coded in assembly.  Checking the
execution target and executing appropriate code is done all the
time in assembly.  It's a problem for lazy HLL programmers who
refuse to code multiple versions of a routine for each target.
It's the "one and done" mentality.

Rod Pemberton

Thread

Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Oliver Bach <decfreak@googlemail.com> - 2013-01-10 17:28 -0800
  Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-10 19:52 -0800
  Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-11 03:35 -0500
    Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-14 15:13 -0800
      Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-14 21:16 -0500
        Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-15 14:47 -0800
          Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-18 23:24 -0500
  Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-11 04:08 -0800
  Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Spam@ControlQ.com - 2013-01-11 13:09 -0500
    Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-01-12 11:59 +0100
  Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-13 07:41 +1300
    Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Chris <xrissmith@me.com> - 2013-01-12 21:05 -0800
      Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-13 22:26 +1300
  Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-01-13 18:41 -0800
  Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-17 23:42 -0800
    Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-19 18:21 -0800
      Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-20 14:26 +0100
        Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-20 10:58 -0600
        Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-20 15:46 -0800
          Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-21 01:51 -0800
            Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-21 04:10 -0800
              Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-21 04:45 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-21 04:48 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-21 22:01 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-21 13:42 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-22 02:18 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 01:06 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Lauri Alanko <la@iki.fi> - 2013-02-01 04:54 +0000
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-31 19:34 -1000
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-02 16:32 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-02-02 18:17 +0000
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-02-02 17:51 +0000
            Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-01-21 14:55 +0000
          Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-22 03:18 -0500
            Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 01:10 -0800
              Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-22 03:31 -0600
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 03:41 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-22 14:36 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-22 17:23 -0600
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 09:38 -0500
              Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-22 12:52 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 04:31 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 04:35 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-22 18:22 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 09:40 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-22 21:02 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 13:30 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-22 23:07 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 15:16 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-23 13:07 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-25 08:33 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 16:46 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-25 23:31 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-26 18:09 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-27 10:15 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 14:41 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-01-31 21:03 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-01-31 21:44 +0200
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 23:16 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 12:47 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-02-01 08:23 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-22 04:48 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-22 17:30 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 04:32 -0800
              Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotz.cnm> - 2013-01-22 14:35 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-22 17:29 -0600
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-23 02:21 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 04:43 -0600
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-23 03:28 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 09:19 -0600
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-23 09:24 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 12:01 -0600
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2013-02-04 03:09 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-25 09:59 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-26 03:05 -0600
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-01-26 04:38 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-01-26 07:19 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-26 13:13 -0600
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-01-26 17:00 -0500
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis None <vandys@vsta.org> - 2013-01-26 22:04 +0000
            Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis kenney@cix.compulink.co.uk - 2013-01-22 18:20 -0600
              Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-01-22 23:25 -0800
              Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-01-23 03:02 -0600
            Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-24 18:28 -0800
              Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-25 16:57 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-25 08:41 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-01-25 20:04 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-01-26 09:25 +1300
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-01-26 13:16 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-30 18:40 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-31 15:15 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-01-31 15:55 +0000
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-02-24 00:57 +0200
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-01-31 09:01 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-01-31 19:41 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-01 16:08 +0000
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-02-02 02:16 +0000
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-02 16:38 +0100
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-02-04 14:50 +0000
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-06 00:32 -0800
                Re: Examples of current implementations in Forth for bachelor thesis Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-02-06 19:39 +0100

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