Re: how can forth compete with lisp

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From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: how can forth compete with lisp
Date	Sat, 01 Oct 2016 12:20:53 -0700
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albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
> <http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus>.
> That is an interesting stand, and probably true for kernel programming
> in C++. Especially the STL may not be a good idea for programs that
> must be speed ("performance") aware.

I don't think STL causes significant slowdowns depending on what you're
doing.  It does cause some memory bloat, and sometimes there are some
design snags (there might or might not be a Boost counterpart that does
what you want).

A couple other things I'd add: that post was written in 2004, and one of
its big complaints was about the unreliability of C++ compilers and
libraries in those days.  They have gotten a lot better since then.

The language itself has also gotten a lot better.  C++11 was really a
major improvement.  It allowed bypassing a lot of Java-like bureaucracy
(through type inference, looping over containers, etc), made STL more
useful, and added new capabilities like move semantics.  C++ now feels
about halfway between C and Python in terms of the convenience level it
provides, plus it has a real type system, plus the compiled code is
usually very fast.

It still probably has a lot of obscure hazards, so maybe it's dangerous
for non-experts for things like kernels and internet programs.  For the
data crunching stuff I currently use it for, though, I've been enjoying
it.

Thread

Re: how can forth compete with lisp endlessboomcapitalism@gmail.com - 2016-08-13 10:01 -0700
  Re: how can forth compete with lisp Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2016-08-13 10:24 -0700
    Re: how can forth compete with lisp JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-08-13 11:25 -0700
      Re: how can forth compete with lisp foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-08-13 11:47 -0700
        Re: how can forth compete with lisp JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-08-13 12:17 -0700
        Re: how can forth compete with lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-13 12:40 -0700
          Re: how can forth compete with lisp JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-08-13 13:08 -0700
            Re: how can forth compete with lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-13 13:58 -0700
              Re: how can forth compete with lisp JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-08-14 00:32 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-08-18 16:11 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-08-19 06:45 -0700
              Re: how can forth compete with lisp "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2016-08-20 00:41 +0000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2016-08-20 12:26 -0400
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2016-08-21 18:17 -0700
            Re: how can forth compete with lisp Bill Zimmerly <billzimmerly@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 21:19 -0700
              Re: how can forth compete with lisp Bill Zimmerly <billzimmerly@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 22:40 -0700
              Re: how can forth compete with lisp anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-16 09:03 +0000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2016-09-16 10:00 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Bernd Paysan <bernd@net2o.de> - 2016-09-24 21:27 +0000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 17:23 -0700
    Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 15:55 -0700
      Re: how can forth compete with lisp lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-23 18:39 -0700
        Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 20:20 -0700
        Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-23 18:46 -1000
          Re: how can forth compete with lisp lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-23 22:16 -0700
            Re: how can forth compete with lisp Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 22:40 -0700
              Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 00:07 -0700
            Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 00:11 -0700
            Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 00:13 -0700
            Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-23 21:15 -1000
              Re: how can forth compete with lisp lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-24 00:47 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-23 22:18 -1000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-24 19:26 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-24 21:30 -1000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-25 13:53 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-25 13:59 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-25 17:38 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-25 17:54 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-25 14:43 -1000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-26 14:53 +0100
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-26 14:02 -1000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-27 11:16 +0100
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-27 10:28 -1000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-28 11:41 +0100
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-28 13:27 +0200
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-09-28 08:05 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-28 11:40 -0500
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-09-28 10:13 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-28 08:39 -1000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:14 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-09-28 11:33 +0000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:12 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-28 08:35 -1000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-09-29 06:59 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-29 09:43 -1000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-09-30 09:39 +0000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-30 16:54 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-30 17:14 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-01 11:06 +0200
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-01 12:20 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-02 02:04 +0200
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-01 17:00 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 17:28 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 17:27 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2016-10-01 13:12 +0000
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-10-01 16:07 +0200
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:33 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 18:23 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-10-02 18:45 -0700
                Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-10-01 17:24 -0700
          Re: how can forth compete with lisp polymorph self <jackvanc3@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 00:08 -0700

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