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The C Containers Library

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  The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-08 21:53 +0200
    Re: The C Containers Library aftnix <aftnix@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 13:13 -0700
      Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:31 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-28 17:46 -0400
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 02:05 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-30 14:48 -0400
            Re: The C Containers Library Phil Bradby <nospam@nospam.com> - 2012-08-01 21:00 +0000
              Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-01 23:18 +0200
              Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-02 00:48 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 07:00 -0400
                  Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-02 13:27 +0200
                    Re: The C Containers Library Quentin Pope <qp19433@hotmail.NOSPAM.com> - 2012-08-02 20:27 +0000
                  Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-02 05:13 -0700
                  Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-08-02 14:26 -0700
                    Re: The C Containers Library Kenneth Brody <kenbrody@spamcop.net> - 2012-08-03 10:47 -0400
          Re: The C Containers Library Noob <root@localhost> - 2012-07-29 09:58 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:31 -0600
              Re: The C Containers Library Noob <root@localhost> - 2012-07-30 09:45 +0200
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 02:10 -0700
            Re: The C Containers Library lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2012-07-30 14:54 -0400
      Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-26 16:52 -0400
        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:56 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-26 22:29 +0000
            Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 01:50 +0200
              Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-27 22:28 +0000
            Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-29 06:31 -0700
              Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:26 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 02:21 -0700
                  Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:27 -0600
                    Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-02 16:43 +0100
                      Re: The C Containers Library Ansel <lateknightdev@gmail.com> - 2012-08-02 17:07 -0700
                        Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 22:21 +0100
                          Re: The C Containers Library Ansel <lateknightdev@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 15:43 -0700
                            Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-04 06:32 +0200
                              Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-04 01:52 -0700
                                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:36 -0600
                                  Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-05 08:36 +0200
                                    Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-05 01:28 -0600
                                      Re: The C Containers Library Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2012-08-05 11:31 +0200
                                        Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-05 03:48 -0600
              Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-04 03:41 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 01:55 +0200
    Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 13:45 -0700
      Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-26 22:53 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 18:46 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 10:59 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2012-07-27 03:39 -0700
            Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 11:34 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-27 11:04 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library W Karas <wkaras@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-27 13:10 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-26 18:54 -0700
      Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-27 10:25 -0400
        Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 11:28 -0700
          Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-07-27 15:17 -0400
            Re: The C Containers Library wkaras@yahoo.com - 2012-07-27 13:00 -0700
            Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 02:02 +0200
              Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-28 22:08 -0600
                Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 08:46 +0200
                  Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-29 07:43 +0000
                    Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 09:59 +0200
                      Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-29 06:43 -0700
                      Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-29 17:27 +0000
                        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 20:56 +0200
                          Re: The C Containers Library pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) - 2012-07-30 00:07 +0000
                          Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:07 -0600
                        Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-29 11:58 -0700
                          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 22:06 +0200
                        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-29 22:23 +0200
                          Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-30 00:13 +0200
                            Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 00:13 -0600
                              Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 01:10 -0700
                                Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-30 02:57 -0600
                                  Re: The C Containers Library Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-07-30 15:47 +0000
                                  Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 13:01 -0700
                                Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 04:53 -0700
                                  Re: The C Containers Library Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2012-07-30 13:04 -0700
                                  Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:11 -0600
                                    Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 06:52 -0400
                                  Re: The C Containers Library James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2012-08-02 06:46 -0400
                          Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-30 00:41 +0100
                            Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-30 09:45 +0200
                    Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-29 23:05 -0600
                  Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-07-29 22:52 -0600
                    Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-07-30 04:56 -0700
                      Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-02 02:07 -0600
                    Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-30 17:49 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-28 09:17 +0100
            Re: The C Containers Library W Karas <wkaras@yahoo.com> - 2012-07-28 15:17 -0700
              Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 11:10 +0100
          Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-07-28 06:51 -0700
            Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-07-28 17:23 +0100
              Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-07-30 13:40 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-31 00:24 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.invalid> - 2012-07-31 00:05 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-07-31 00:53 +0100
              Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-07-31 09:24 +0200
              Re: The C Containers Library Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2012-08-02 14:45 -0700
                Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-03 22:31 +0100
                  Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 00:01 +0200
                    Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-08-03 23:45 +0100
                      Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:47 -0600
                    Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:41 -0600
                    Re: The C Containers Library Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-08-07 10:24 +0100
                      Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-07 15:30 +0200
                        Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-08-07 15:35 +0100
                          Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 12:40 -0700
                            Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-09-08 00:07 +0100
                              Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 17:31 -0700
                                Re: The C Containers Library Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2012-09-08 03:14 +0100
                                  Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-08 05:22 -0700
                        Re: The C Containers Library Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2012-09-07 12:36 -0700
                      Re: The C Containers Library Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> - 2012-08-08 02:26 -0700
                        Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-08 17:25 +0200
              Re: The C Containers Library 88888 Dihedral <dihedral88888@googlemail.com> - 2012-08-03 16:04 -0700
    Re: The C Containers Library SG <s.gesemann@gmail.com> - 2012-08-04 04:52 -0700
      Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 18:42 +0200
        Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 19:17 +0000
          Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 19:22 +0000
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-04 22:14 +0200
          Re: The C Containers Library jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2012-08-05 00:15 +0200
            Re: The C Containers Library Ike Naar <ike@faeroes.freeshell.org> - 2012-08-04 23:13 +0000
              Re: The C Containers Library "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> - 2012-08-04 22:53 -0600

Page 4 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7  Next page →

#23888

On Jul 29, 8:59 am, jacob navia <ja...@spamsink.net> wrote:
> Le 29/07/12 09:43, Alan Curry a écrit :
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <jv2m8d$ir...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> > jacob navia  <ja...@jspamsink.org> wrote:
> >> Le 29/07/12 06:08, Ansel a écrit :
>
> >>> I don't think you can go to the conference and *not* compare against STL
> >>> even though you have a C-based product. Else you're going to get responses
> >>> like James gave you about it being kludgy -- you have to address that
> >>> ("that" being that C gives one less clay to mold a container library with)
> >>> and try to alleviate those concerns so that no one even thinks to say that.
> >>> Your story needs to be not only convincing, but *compelling*.
>
> > [...]
>
> >> No, I will not do that. The library is not a direct competition for the
> >> STL, C++ is the best thing since sliced bread, and people that like
> >> that machinery because they have been building it since years would fall
> >> on me and my small project like hawks...
>
> > Could you do a side-by-side with GLib? It has linked lists, trees,
> > hashes... it's not exactly the same thing, but there is significant
> > overlap. It's a C library, so it's closer to being your real
> > competition.
>
> > In fact if someone showed up at the C committee meeting and said "hey,
> > how about we standardize GLib?" they'd probably have a better chance of
> > success than you right now. GLib is ugly as hell, but it has actual
> > field testing.
>
> We have discussed the glib several times in this group. Specifically,
> the behavior of "xmalloc" of the glib was questioned that aborts the
> program instead of returning NULL.
>
> The basic problem is that the glib is GNU, and that means that it can't
> be used outside the restrictions of the GPL.

actually it uses LGPL which is less restrictive

> The sample implementation is not a full implementation of the library.
> Multi-threading stuff is missing, for instance. Ordered containers
> (keep in sorted order) are missing from this first version too.

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#23901

In article <jv2qgt$s7c$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
jacob navia  <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
>
>We have discussed the glib several times in this group. Specifically, 
>the behavior of "xmalloc" of the glib was questioned that aborts the
>program instead of returning NULL.

Yes, it has major problems. But it also has millions of installations
and thousands of programmers are already familiar with it.

>
>The basic problem is that the glib is GNU, and that means that it can't
>be used outside the restrictions of the GPL.

I don't see how this matters. Was there a public domain implementation
of all the C89 functions before they were standardized?

My point would be equally valid if I used the Microsoft equivalent to
GLib as an example, but I don't know what the Microsoft equivalent to
GLib is. (I assume they have a similar library of non-standard utility
functions with trees and hash tables and such.)

-- 
Alan Curry

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#23902

Le 29/07/12 19:27, Alan Curry a écrit :
> In article <jv2qgt$s7c$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
> jacob navia  <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
>>
>> We have discussed the glib several times in this group. Specifically,
>> the behavior of "xmalloc" of the glib was questioned that aborts the
>> program instead of returning NULL.
>
> Yes, it has major problems. But it also has millions of installations
> and thousands of programmers are already familiar with it.
>

So, you propose that the standard accepts something hat has "major
problems" as you say just because it is used in GTK+ ?


What is the logic behin d that? I do not see any.


>>
>> The basic problem is that the glib is GNU, and that means that it can't
>> be used outside the restrictions of the GPL.
>
> I don't see how this matters. Was there a public domain implementation
> of all the C89 functions before they were standardized?
>
> My point would be equally valid if I used the Microsoft equivalent to
> GLib as an example, but I don't know what the Microsoft equivalent to
> GLib is. (I assume they have a similar library of non-standard utility
> functions with trees and hash tables and such.)
>

Microsoft has abandonned any development in C or C++ since the adoption
of the C# language. Even Visual Basic now runs in the virtual .net
machine, as do many  other languages that are just different language
front ends for the .net VM.

Of course there isn't any official announcement of this but you can
see where the Microsoft emphasis is just by reading between the lines

There isn't any new versions of the SDK since several years now, the
developments of the C++ wrappers for the windows API has ceased, and
in general Microsoft is going in the direction of "managed" C++ if
at all.

So, from that side there isn't anything.

 From the linux/gnu side GTK+ uses the glib yes, but I do not know of
many major software that uses that stuff OUTSIDE gtk+. I would be
interested to know if there is any. Can you name a few?

Thanks

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#23915

[resending post, it seems to have been lost]

In article <jv411k$qpg$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
jacob navia  <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
>Le 29/07/12 19:27, Alan Curry a écrit :
>> In article <jv2qgt$s7c$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
>> jacob navia  <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> We have discussed the glib several times in this group. Specifically,
>>> the behavior of "xmalloc" of the glib was questioned that aborts the
>>> program instead of returning NULL.
>>
>> Yes, it has major problems. But it also has millions of installations
>> and thousands of programmers are already familiar with it.
>>
>
>So, you propose that the standard accepts something hat has "major
>problems" as you say just because it is used in GTK+ ?

If you think I proposed it you should read again. I said a proposal
based on a working library with known flaws is more reasonable than a
proposal based on a library that's never seen real-world use (and which
therefore has *unknown* flaws).

>
> From the linux/gnu side GTK+ uses the glib yes, but I do not know of
>many major software that uses that stuff OUTSIDE gtk+. I would be
>interested to know if there is any. Can you name a few?

I stitched together some "aptitude why" queries and verified that at
least 719 packages available in Debian require libglib but not libgtk.

Here are some of the highlights:

amanda-common: Advanced Maryland Automatic Network Disk Archiver (Client)
asterisk: Open Source Private Branch Exchange (PBX)
bluez: Bluetooth tools and daemons
dvdauthor: create DVD-Video file system
e16: the Enlightenment Window Manager DR16
fontforge: font editor
gettext: GNU Internationalization utilities
gphotofs: filesystem to mount digital cameras
gpsim: Simulator for Microchip's PIC microcontrollers
ifuse: FUSE module for iPhone and iPod Touch devices
imagemagick: image manipulation programs
jnettop: View hosts/ports taking up the most network traffic
lilypond: A program for typesetting sheet music
nbd-server: Network Block Device protocol - server
pcb-lesstif: printed circuit board (pcb) design program - LessTif interface
sobby: a dedicated server for collaborative editing
usbip: USB device sharing system over IP network
wireshark-common: network traffic analyzer - common files
xplanet: planetary body renderer
zorp: An advanced protocol analyzing firewall

Quite a variety of stuff now depends on GLib.

-- 
Alan Curry

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#23922

"jacob navia" <jacob@spamsink.net> wrote in message 
news:jv411k$qpg$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Le 29/07/12 19:27, Alan Curry a écrit :
>> In article <jv2qgt$s7c$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
>> jacob navia  <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> We have discussed the glib several times in this group. Specifically,
>>> the behavior of "xmalloc" of the glib was questioned that aborts the
>>> program instead of returning NULL.
>>
>> Yes, it has major problems. But it also has millions of installations
>> and thousands of programmers are already familiar with it.
>>
>
> So, you propose that the standard accepts something hat has "major
> problems" as you say just because it is used in GTK+ ?
>
>
> What is the logic behin d that? I do not see any.
>
>
>>>
>>> The basic problem is that the glib is GNU, and that means that it can't
>>> be used outside the restrictions of the GPL.
>>
>> I don't see how this matters. Was there a public domain implementation
>> of all the C89 functions before they were standardized?
>>
>> My point would be equally valid if I used the Microsoft equivalent to
>> GLib as an example, but I don't know what the Microsoft equivalent to
>> GLib is. (I assume they have a similar library of non-standard utility
>> functions with trees and hash tables and such.)
>>
>
> Microsoft has abandonned any development in C or C++ since the adoption
> of the C# language.

You are a year or two behind the change of direction in that regard. C++ 
seems to be prime path these days at MS -- but I'm not an insider, I just 
get that impression from the external info they release, and I don't even 
hardly keep up with such things diligently. Where have you been?

Insiders (and others), please correct me if my impression about that is 
wrong.

> Even Visual Basic now runs in the virtual .net
> machine, as do many  other languages that are just different language
> front ends for the .net VM.

.net is on another level. Languages are still the foundation for "real" 
software product. .net is there for those who want high-level APIs that can 
deliver product on Windows fast. (Noted and granted that a company's product 
built on top of .net may be more of a toll-stop entry onto the Windows 
highway than a "real" software product).

> Of course there isn't any official announcement of this but you can
> see where the Microsoft emphasis is just by reading between the lines

You seem to be living in the past? It was obvious to even the casual 
observer that C# was a prime path at MS for awhile. They even tried to 
bastardize C++ by introducing C++/CLI at the time. Now if that isn't a 
bastard of a name, nothing is (!): "Oh yes, and have you met our son? His 
name is C++ (/CLI). Yes, half human, and 10% artificiality. (Don't ask about 
the rest -- you *don't* want to know).

C# started out as a competitive response to java. C# has merits. I defy any 
C++ programmer (I cannot say C programmer, but it may be so too) to examine, 
to some thorough degree, C# and *not* come away a better programmer. I am 
pointing at those C/C++ programmers that don't really use or eval other 
languages much. Then again, it could likely be that examining C# cured some 
of my deficiencies in understanding about certain topics and others don't 
have those or any deficiencies. It is worth a look, IMO. On that note, it 
would be much worth a look at the container architecture if one was creating 
such a thing.

Again, I'm not an insider and spurt out what I think I know based upon what 
I read and hear -- and I'm hardly up with current events either, but Jacob 
seems to be too far removed and needs to "read the paper" a bit IMO.

I *encourage* factual correction, for then my brain gets reprogrammed with 
current data. Yes, I am a cyborg.

>
> There isn't any new versions of the SDK since several years now,

What do you care? You are a C programmer and compete directly with MS and 
.net. You're not Johnny or Jainie pointing-and-clicking their ways to 
software production nirvana. Get a bit more lax, though, and they may do 
just that! (Ref: the movie with Sly Stallone as the thawed-out cop in the 
future world where Taco Bell is then "Fine Dining").

> the
> developments of the C++ wrappers for the windows API has ceased, and
> in general Microsoft is going in the direction of "managed" C++ if
> at all.

"Hello". What year is this please? Someone post that info so that I can know 
whether I am insane or Jacob is asleep.

>
> So, from that side there isn't anything.
>

"So", via your decree? I am sceptical now. I was proceeding as if you did 
not have a "white paper" about your CCL, and was expecting you to "shut me 
up" with: "dude, the white paper is available at <link>". You have on gun 
and holster, but no bullets? Duel in October you said -- you better learn to 
shoot fast and straight before then, because it's the real thing and the 
talk is about to end. You're not thinking about backing out and waiting for 
next committee meeting which would require more bits to convey the date, are 
you? Need more time? You got two months -- use them. I suggest you create 
the white paper and pander it around the guru circles and let them tear up 
each detail. In private.
You're not developing a product, don't need NDA, and that makes it waaay 
easier. People who like words, love the challenge of crosswords. Guru 
developers, love evaluating code, for it expands their knowledge 
synergistically. Then there are architects and designers, most of who 
couldn't program their way out of a subway and wouldn't care to, and your 
CCL is what they do and it behooves you to get their input. God bless those 
who can work for a paycheck.

> From the linux/gnu side GTK+ uses the glib yes, but I do not know of
> many major software that uses that stuff OUTSIDE gtk+. I would be
> interested to know if there is any. Can you name a few?
>
> Thanks
>
> 

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#23903

pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) writes:
> In article <jv2qgt$s7c$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
> jacob navia  <jacob@jspamsink.org> wrote:
>>
>>We have discussed the glib several times in this group. Specifically, 
>>the behavior of "xmalloc" of the glib was questioned that aborts the
>>program instead of returning NULL.
>
> Yes, it has major problems. But it also has millions of installations
> and thousands of programmers are already familiar with it.

And as far as I can tell, glib has no function called "xmalloc".
Perhaps it was in an earlier version?

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    Will write code for food.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#23905

Le 29/07/12 20:58, Keith Thompson a écrit :
>
> And as far as I can tell, glib has no function called "xmalloc".
> Perhaps it was in an earlier version?
>

We have discussed this to death but here we go again.

http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2009/10/30/handling-out-of-memory-conditions-in-c/

Examples – libraries
In this section, I present the OOM policies of a couple of well-known 
libraries.

Glib

Glib is a cross platform utility library in C, used most notably for 
GTK+. At first sight, Glib’s approach to memory allocation is flexible. 
It provides two functions (with several variations):

g_malloc: attempts to allocate memory and exits with an error if the 
allocation fails, using g_error [1]. This is the abort policy.
g_try_malloc: attempts to allocate memory and just returns NULL if that 
fails, without aborting.

This way, Glib leaves the programmer the choice – you can choose the 
policy. However, the story doesn’t end here. What does Glib use for its 
own utilities? Let’s check g_array for instance. Allocation of a new 
array is done by means of calling g_array_maybe_expand that uses 
g_realloc, which is implemented with the same abort policy as g_malloc – 
it aborts when the memory can’t be allocated.

Curiously, Glib isn’t consistent with this policy. Many modules use 
g_malloc, but a couple (such as the gfileutils module) use g_try_malloc 
and notify the caller on memory allocation errors.

So what do we have here? It seems that one of the most popular C 
libraries out there uses the abort policy of memory allocations. Take 
that into account when writing applications that make use of Glib – if 
you’re planning some kind of graceful OOM recovery, you’re out of luck.

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#23906

You gdon't glike ghaving gall gyour gvariables gprexfed gwith g?

Why, you don't like the following code?

#include <glib.h>

gint main (gint argc, gchar **argv)
{
    gchar *s = g_strdup ("Hello there!");
    g_print ("%s\n", s);
    g_free (s);
}

:-)

Got that from
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!msg/comp.lang.c/DqFUdNyf_uY/3s3hef9fAsMJ

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#23910

On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 22:23:46 +0200
jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> wrote:

> You gdon't glike ghaving gall gyour gvariables gprexfed gwith g?
> 
> Why, you don't like the following code?
> 
> #include <glib.h>
> 
> gint main (gint argc, gchar **argv)
> {
>     gchar *s = g_strdup ("Hello there!");
>     g_print ("%s\n", s);
>     g_free (s);
> }
> 
> :-)
> 
> Got that from
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!msg/comp.lang.c/DqFUdNyf_uY/3s3hef9fAsMJ
> 
> 

C doesn't have namespaces ;)


-- 
drwxr-xr-x 2 bmaxa bmaxa 4096 Jul 29 16:36 .

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#23923

"Melzzzzz" <mel@zzzzz.invalid> wrote in message 
news:jv4ci1$bua$1@solani.org...

> C doesn't have namespaces ;)

C invented C++ namespaces. In C it was a technique. I C++ it was formalized 
and developed.

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#23931

"Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
> "Melzzzzz" <mel@zzzzz.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:jv4ci1$bua$1@solani.org...
>> C doesn't have namespaces ;)
>
> C invented C++ namespaces. In C it was a technique. I C++ it was formalized 
> and developed.

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    Will write code for food.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#23933

Keith Thompson wrote:
> "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
>> "Melzzzzz" <mel@zzzzz.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:jv4ci1$bua$1@solani.org...
>>> C doesn't have namespaces ;)
>>
>> C invented C++ namespaces. In C it was a technique. I C++ it was
>> formalized and developed.
>
> That doesn't make a lot of sense.

Oh? Apparently you have motive. 

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#23962

On Mon, 2012-07-30, Ansel wrote:
> Keith Thompson wrote:
>> "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
>>> "Melzzzzz" <mel@zzzzz.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:jv4ci1$bua$1@solani.org...
>>>> C doesn't have namespaces ;)
>>>
>>> C invented C++ namespaces. In C it was a technique. I C++ it was
>>> formalized and developed.
>>
>> That doesn't make a lot of sense.
>
> Oh? Apparently you have motive. 

"-- Let's see ... Mr Thompson had a motive to invent namespaces, *and*
he had access to a wood-chipper. We also found stack traces from
November 1980 in his car.  Unfortunately, he has an alibi for that
night."

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#23988

"Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
> Keith Thompson wrote:
>> "Ansel" <tinker454@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
>>> "Melzzzzz" <mel@zzzzz.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:jv4ci1$bua$1@solani.org...
>>>> C doesn't have namespaces ;)
>>>
>>> C invented C++ namespaces. In C it was a technique. I C++ it was
>>> formalized and developed.
>>
>> That doesn't make a lot of sense.
>
> Oh? Apparently you have motive. 

What are you talking about?

No C did not invent C++ namespaces.  The C standard does use
the phrase "name space", but it doesn't refer to the same thing.
C does not have user-defined namespaces (apart from the kludge of
using consistent prefixes in identifiers).

And I honestly have no idea what you mean by "Apparently you have
motive".

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    Will write code for food.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#23946

On Jul 30, 9:10 am, Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
> "Ansel" <tinker...@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
> > "Melzzzzz" <m...@zzzzz.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:jv4ci1$bua$1@solani.org...

> >> C doesn't have namespaces ;)

it does actually. It has several.

> > C invented C++ namespaces. In C it was a technique. I C++ it was formalized
> > and developed.
>
> That doesn't make a lot of sense.

because it's nonsense. If he means it is common to use naming
conventions
to distinguish namespaces in C, then this was common in plenty of
other
languages.

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#23991

Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> writes:
[...]
> because it's nonsense. If he means it is common to use naming
> conventions
> to distinguish namespaces in C, then this was common in plenty of
> other
> languages.

Nick, if this layout is a response to my "A plea for short lines
in posts here", ragged lines like this are even harder to read than
overly long lines.  Compare to this:

> because it's nonsense. If he means it is common to use naming
> conventions to distinguish namespaces in C, then this was common in
> plenty of other languages.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    Will write code for food.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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#24117

Nick Keighley wrote:
> On Jul 30, 9:10 am, Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
>> "Ansel" <tinker...@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
>>> "Melzzzzz" <m...@zzzzz.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:jv4ci1$bua$1@solani.org...
>
>>>> C doesn't have namespaces ;)
>
> it does actually. It has several.
>
>>> C invented C++ namespaces. In C it was a technique. I C++ it was
>>> formalized and developed.
>>
>> That doesn't make a lot of sense.
>
> because it's nonsense. If he means it is common to use naming
> conventions
> to distinguish namespaces in C, then this was common in plenty of
> other
> languages.

But we are talking about the C-to-C++ evolution. C++ automated and 
abstracted-away the decorative naming conventions used by C programmers as a 
technique, into a some keywords. To say that C++ invented anything new would 
be overstating it. 

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#24120

On 08/02/2012 04:11 AM, Ansel wrote:
> Nick Keighley wrote:
>> On Jul 30, 9:10 am, Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
>>> "Ansel" <tinker...@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
...
>>>> C invented C++ namespaces. In C it was a technique. I C++ it was
>>>> formalized and developed.
>>>
>>> That doesn't make a lot of sense.
>>
>> because it's nonsense. If he means it is common to use naming
>> conventions
>> to distinguish namespaces in C, then this was common in plenty of
>> other
>> languages.
> 
> But we are talking about the C-to-C++ evolution. C++ automated and 
> abstracted-away the decorative naming conventions used by C programmers as a 
> technique, into a some keywords. To say that C++ invented anything new would 
> be overstating it. 

C programmers didn't invent that technique; it long pre-dates C. C++ did
invent the keywords, special syntax, and the rules associated with those
keywords and syntax. To say that "C invented C++ namespaces" is nonsense
because "C++ namespaces" refers very specifically to those keywords,
that syntax, and the associated rules. It is not a term that can be
loosely extended to cover the naming conventions that were used in other
languages to achieve the same goal.

What you're saying is roughly comparable to denying the significance of
the invention of the prefix ++ operator, by pointing out that it's just
equivalent to i = i + 1. There's no denying the equivalence, but
recognizing that fact doesn't reduce the significance of the invention.
-- 
James Kuyper

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#24119

On 07/30/2012 07:53 AM, Nick Keighley wrote:
> On Jul 30, 9:10�am, Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
>> "Ansel" <tinker...@trytospammenowloser.com> writes:
>>> "Melzzzzz" <m...@zzzzz.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:jv4ci1$bua$1@solani.org...
> 
>>>> C doesn't have namespaces ;)
> 
> it does actually. It has several.

No, what C has are name spaces, a somewhat different concept than
namespaces. C++ has them too, but fewer (and correspondingly less
significant) than C's name spaces.
-- 
James Kuyper

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#23914

jacob navia wrote:

> You gdon't glike ghaving gall gyour gvariables gprexfed gwith g?

The pthreads API prefixes all its symbols with pthread_,[1] and that didn't 
stopped it from being made an interantional standard or becoming widely 
adopted.


Rui Maciel

[1] http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xsh/pthread.h.html

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