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Shorthand ~> pointers

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  Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-19 21:31 -0500
    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers bitrex <user@example.net> - 2018-12-20 03:29 -0500
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 06:40 -0500
    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> - 2018-12-20 10:23 +0000
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-20 11:15 +0000
        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-20 13:46 +0100
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2018-12-20 05:04 -0800
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 05:11 -0800
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 03:25 -0800
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-12-20 11:51 +0000
        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 06:54 -0500
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-12-20 12:17 +0000
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 07:21 -0500
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-12-20 14:18 +0000
                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 09:26 -0500
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 04:29 -0800
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2018-12-20 04:46 -0800
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-20 15:00 +0100
        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-12-20 14:26 +0000
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-12-20 15:03 +0000
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-12-20 07:05 -0800
    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Fred.Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2018-12-20 11:16 +0100
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 07:16 -0500
    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-20 12:39 +0000
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 08:20 -0500
        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-20 14:02 +0000
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 09:15 -0500
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-20 17:48 +0000
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2018-12-21 11:36 +0000
        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 08:05 -0500
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-12-21 14:56 +0000
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 10:03 -0500
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-12-21 15:35 +0000
                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 10:41 -0500
                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-21 15:41 +0000
                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-12-21 17:04 +0000
                    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 12:23 -0500
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-12-21 14:57 +0000
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 10:20 -0500
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-12-21 15:37 +0000
                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 10:42 -0500
                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-21 15:42 +0000
                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-21 17:39 +0100
                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-12-21 17:05 +0000
                    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 12:24 -0500
                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-21 23:49 -0800
                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 13:05 -0500
                          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-22 16:38 -0800
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2018-12-22 18:39 +0000
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 13:42 -0500
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-22 16:23 -0800
                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 21:52 -0500
                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-22 20:26 -0800
                    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 23:54 -0500
                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-12-23 12:43 +0000
                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 08:34 -0500
                          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-12-23 08:09 -0800
                            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 11:56 -0500
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2018-12-23 08:24 +0000
                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 08:24 -0500
                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-23 15:28 +0000
                    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 12:15 -0500
                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-23 17:24 +0000
                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 12:35 -0500
                          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-23 17:39 +0000
                            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 14:07 -0500
                              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-23 19:17 +0000
                                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 14:52 -0500
                                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-23 21:14 +0000
                                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-23 21:36 +0000
                                    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 19:24 -0500
                                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-24 10:14 +0000
                                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-24 07:53 -0500
                                          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-12-24 14:16 +0000
                                            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-24 10:17 -0500
                                          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-24 15:36 +0000
                                            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-24 10:43 -0500
                                              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-24 15:46 +0000
                                              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-24 14:16 -0800
                                                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-12-24 22:36 +0000
                                                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-24 18:35 -0500
                                                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-24 15:44 -0800
                                                    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-24 18:55 -0500
                                                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-25 22:20 -0800
                                                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-26 05:32 -0500
                                                          You are so full of shit (Was: Shorthand ~> pointers) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-12-26 14:10 +0000
                                                            Re: You are so full of .. (Was: Shorthand ~> pointers) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-26 09:47 -0500
                                                              Re: You are so full of shit (Was: Shorthand ~> pointers) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-12-26 15:21 +0000
                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-24 08:26 +1300
                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 15:02 -0500
                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-12-28 08:21 -0800
                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2018-12-25 03:56 +0000
                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-24 23:55 -0500
                          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-12-25 10:14 -0500
                            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-25 10:36 -0500
                    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2018-12-24 14:22 +0000
                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-24 15:47 -0800
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2018-12-23 16:31 +0800
                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 08:28 -0500
    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2018-12-21 01:14 +0000
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 03:23 +0100
        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2018-12-21 09:45 +0000
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-21 12:05 +0100
          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-21 21:24 +0000
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-12-21 21:47 +0000
            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-22 16:09 +0100
              Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-12-22 11:49 -0500
                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-22 18:41 +0000
                  Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 21:48 +0300
                    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 14:00 -0500
                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-22 19:08 +0000
                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 16:42 -0800
                      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-12-22 17:10 -0500
                        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-22 17:42 -0500
                          Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2018-12-23 10:19 +0000
                            Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-23 08:40 -0500
                Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-12-25 21:00 +0000
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-21 07:57 -0500
    Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2018-12-24 14:38 +0100
      Re: Shorthand ~> pointers "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-12-24 10:26 -0500
        Re: Shorthand ~> pointers Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2018-12-28 13:35 +0100

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#139038

On 12/24/2018 5:16 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/24/2018 7:43 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 12/24/2018 10:36 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>> Jesus believed the Old Testament was the commandment of God (Matthew 15:3) 
>>> ergo Jesus believed that homosexuals should be put to death (Leviticus 
>>> 20:13).
>>
>> Jesus didn't just believe that.  He wrote it.  He gave it to Moses, and
>> other writings in the Bible to the prophets and apostles.
> 
> Why are you implying that Jesus basically wrote something like:
> All gay things should be utterly destroyed in the flesh

In the Law of Moses, for those in the Jewish community, the Law of Moses
demanded that many types of sins resulted in the death/stoning of the in-
dividual committing those sins.

God was seeking to keep His nation pure, free from sin's influence.  He
knew the spirit nature of the prompting of sin, and that where one person
acquiesces to sin, that evil spirit then has a voice in the community and
will begin to influence others, resulting in more and more sin.  We see
that very effect in our societies today everywhere across the Earth where
Christ has been pushed out, and "tolerance" has been brought in.  Compare
the "normal, accepted activities" of the world to Biblical teaching, and
you see the extent to which sin has influenced when God's guidance is not
allowed.

Evil spirits tempt us to sin.  When we agree to listen to their voice,
they gain a legal foothold into our physical flesh, into our lives.  They
want this interface / interaction with the tangible world, which they do
not possess in their spirit form.  The Bible says that the angels who fell
with Satan are locked in eternal chains awaiting judgment, meaning their
physical bodies are locked up somewhere inaccessible to this world, so
they leave their bodies and interact only with this world spiritually.
But when they get a human host to acquiesce to their prompting, their guid-
ance against God into sin, they gain a legal license to enter in to that
body and are then having a direct physical influence into this world.

It's why our media, our movies, our music, the "powers that be" in various
high level places, are all pushing "tolerance" and pushing Christianity
(and in general God's morality taught to people) out.  It's because they
want to make more and more room for their brethren to come out and corrupt
God's creation of man to such an extent that where they will be judged and
cast into Hell, so will so many of us that God will not want to see His
creation destroyed, so He will change His laws, saving His creation, and
in so doing saving those evil spirits as well.

That's my personal take on the situation, as it fits with what we see,
what the Bible teaches, the nature of the influence evil spirits have
had in people over time, how it's changed people's behavior, dominated
their flesh, tempted them into immorality, etc.

So, before Christ came and gave us His Holy Spirit, before He physically
took away our sin at the cross, before man could be regenerated into the
new spirit life, God was ONLY dealing with the people here on Earth in
the flesh.  He gave them a seeming harsh/strict set of laws to obey.  In
now understanding the spirit nature of the enemy we face and the battles
we face against those evil spirits, we see that God was focusing His
people's attentions on rigid requirements, to give them discipline, to
give them focus, to give them a way to combat the enemy's influence into
their societies, communities, families, nation, etc.

Israel often disobeyed, however, and we see the corruption of the Israel
people today because of it.  Compromised to such an extent due to the
turning away of God's guidance through the Law of Moses, such that most
Jews only celebrate major holidays, do not refrain from many of those
things taught in the Law, do not stone people any longer, etc.

This has happened during this age of Grace, when God reached out to the
Gentiles (non-Jews) world-wide, offering them salvation, because of how
His people (Israel) had rejected Him, even crucifying Him on the cross.
A type of blinders has been put on their eyes and minds so they cannot
see Jesus as the Messiah, and during this time God reaches out to the
rest of us (the non-Jews) and offers salvation.

God searches hearts and minds and intents and purposes to see who it is
that is seeking the truth, or would seek the truth if given the oppor-
tunity.  He reaches into their lives supernaturally and using the same
type of spiritual influence the evil spirits use, except He uses it in
no evil way, but in a positive way, God guides the person to come to His
Son, ask forgiveness, and be saved.  The person really does come to the
cross and ask forgiveness, but they would never have done so without
that drawing of God, because in their flesh they are literally dead
spiritually.  But by God's spiritual prompting, they move, and in this
world, by their mouth, in their thoughts, by their flesh, they ask Him
to forgive their sin, which enables the transaction to take place.

The power of life and death is in our tongue.

God has promised a time when His attentions will again be restored to
the Jews.  At that time, which many Christians believe will come after
the rapture, the Jews who are transformed in this way will then see
Jesus as their Messiah, will then know the Law of God in their heart
and in their mind.  They won't need someone to teach it to them, be-
cause they will simply know it on the inside by the spirit guidance
God will give them, which gives them new knowledge the flesh cannot
know.

Those former Jews will become the "new Christians" during that time,
leading people to Christ, likely doing miracles as the Apostles did
during their time here on Earth.  It will be an unprecedented time a
pouring out of God's spirit upon all flesh, such that men and women
will move to serve Him in ways not seen since the century when Christ
was on the Earth.

It is the time in the very end when the final seven years will come
upon the people of the Earth, when God pours out His wrath upon all
flesh that has become corrupt.  It is the preparation for the coming
Millennial Age where Christ will rule upon the Earth for 1,000 years,
the day of rest representative of God creating the Earth in 6 days,
and on the 7th day He rested, with God having dealt with man for the
Biblical timeline of 6,000 years, with a 1,000 year "day of rest,"
as it were, for to God 1,000 years is as a day, and a day is as 1,000
years.

> How about after the death of the flesh... Should gay people suffer forever?

Those involved in sin will suffer torment forever in the unending
flames of Hell.  That includes you too, Chris, with your flippant,
tolerant, wibbly-wobbly attitude/position, and your unrepentant, un-
coming-to-Jesus-asking-forgiveness state.

It is SIN that will be cast down, all sin.  Not just "gay people,"
but rather sinners.

We all have sin.  We all need Jesus.  It's why Christians like me
reach out and teach people these things.  We don't do it for the
mockers and haters.  We do it because there are still some who will
be saved.  We do it for them, and not for other people.  And we do
it to honor the guidance of God who told us to go forth and do this.

God has worked mighty things against the totally and wholly de-
structive nature of sin at work in man.  Sin has ravaged this world,
and that's only in a few thousand years.  Imagine what sin could do
at work in eternal beings in eternity.  It's why God build a special
place of confinement for sin, called Hell.  No one entering in to
Hell will EVER escape.  It is a place where that sin will be wholly
confined forever, with each person who loves sin being tormented to
such an extreme continually that they will not be able to wield that
sinful nature against anything ever.  Only pain, agony, torment,
literally forever... a type of "commensurate jail" for the heinous
crime of sin for an eternal being.  On Earth people get life in
prison without the possibility of parole.  They go to jail, and they
die in jail, for truly horrific crimes.

In God's Kingdom built upon truth, where sin is anything that is
anti-God (anti-truth), it eats away at God's creation like a cancer,
like a plague.  It has no redeeming qualities.  Nothing positive.
It is the worst crime there is against truth, and God has decreed
that all who will not follow after Him, pursuing truth seriously,
embracing sin wholly, will be confined into the commensurate prison
for their own eternal being nature.

-----
We see people here on Earth as only so-and-so in their body that
lives for Nnn years.  But we are more than that.  Sin has blinded
our eyes to it because in sin our spirit nature died.  We no long-
er have that eternal perspective, so all we see is the flesh.  We
try to make our lives comfy and wonderful here, but we do not give
an ounce of concern for our eternal soul.

What the light of the Bible does is teach us what we don't know,
and gives us an opportunity to know the truth so that our desire
to know that truth can be piqued, so we can be intrigued wanting
to know more.  We can't know more in our flesh, but God sees our
heart's desire to want to know more, and He then intervenes and
pours out His own spirit nature to draw us in supernatural non-
flesh ways to the truth, to more knowledge of His Son, to the point
where we eventually come to Him in repentance, in tears, broken,
seeing our sin, acknowledging that we are guilty, and then asking
Him to forgive us, to the point where we are saved.

The light of the gospel shines in the darkness of sin, driving
that darkness away.  It is there for all who have eyes to see,
for all who will be saved.

For those who will embrace sin and reject the truth, they will
never see it and they will perish in their sin.  Christians do
not know who it is who will be saved, so we reach out to all
sinners equally.  We do not judge, but we warn what God has said
He will judge on that final day.  We warn people so they have
time to repent of their sin, come to Jesus, ask forgiveness and
be saved.  It's God's prescribed method of salvation for all who
will be saved, and we teach people these things so that those
who have an ear to hear will be saved.  The rest will literally
go to their grave believing they are right, not realizing until
they leave this world that they were wholly consumed and deceived
by sin, believing the lies of the enemy, that that day of final
judgment will overtake them completely, and their eternal soul
will be cast headlong into the eternal lake of fire, from which
there will NEVER be any escape ever again.

It is the judgment of a Holy, Holy, Holy, righteous and pure God
keeping His House (Heaven, the universe) clear of sin's wholly
destructive influence.

God will not abide sin.  But God's love for us gives us a way
out, a second chance, the ability to be redeemed even though we
are sinners.

God cannot allow sin to go unpunished, so He sent His own Son
to take on our sin, and God poured out His wrath against that
sin upon His own Son rather than us, literally crushing Him the
Bible says.  And after that crushing, God raised Him back to
life and gave Him power and authority over all things in Heaven
and on Earth, because of His obedience, because of His righteous-
ness.

God's in the business of saving men and women today.  It's why
He gave us Jesus.  But that time is fast approaching an end,
and all who have rejected Him and remain alive in these final
end-times will be destroyed, consumed by their own sin, cast
forever into eternal judgment for it.

God gives people the choice today, teaching us that we must
call upon Him "while it is still called today," for none of us
know when we will leave this Earth.  And none of us know the
day or the hour of Christ's second coming, when the rapture
will take place, and where Christ is coming back as a true con-
quering King to reclaim what was lost to sin, to put down every
enemy, to restore this world to His own for His upcoming full
Millennial reign.

If you hear His voice do not harden your heart.  Listen to Him,
for He is reaching out to you to save your eternal soul.

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#139040

On 12/24/2018 3:35 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 12/24/2018 5:16 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 12/24/2018 7:43 AM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 12/24/2018 10:36 AM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> Jesus believed the Old Testament was the commandment of God (Matthew 
>>>> 15:3) ergo Jesus believed that homosexuals should be put to death 
>>>> (Leviticus 20:13).
>>>
>>> Jesus didn't just believe that.  He wrote it.  He gave it to Moses, and
>>> other writings in the Bible to the prophets and apostles.
>>
>> Why are you implying that Jesus basically wrote something like:
>> All gay things should be utterly destroyed in the flesh
> 
> In the Law of Moses, for those in the Jewish community, the Law of Moses
> demanded that many types of sins resulted in the death/stoning of the in-
> dividual committing those sins.
> 
> God was seeking to keep His nation pure, free from sin's influence.  He
> knew the spirit nature of the prompting of sin, and that where one person
> acquiesces to sin, that evil spirit then has a voice in the community and
> will begin to influence others, resulting in more and more sin.  We see
> that very effect in our societies today everywhere across the Earth where
> Christ has been pushed out, and "tolerance" has been brought in.  Compare
> the "normal, accepted activities" of the world to Biblical teaching, and
> you see the extent to which sin has influenced when God's guidance is not
> allowed.
> 
> Evil spirits tempt us to sin.  When we agree to listen to their voice,
> they gain a legal foothold into our physical flesh, into our lives.  They
> want this interface / interaction with the tangible world, which they do
> not possess in their spirit form.  The Bible says that the angels who fell
> with Satan are locked in eternal chains awaiting judgment, meaning their
> physical bodies are locked up somewhere inaccessible to this world, so
> they leave their bodies and interact only with this world spiritually.
> But when they get a human host to acquiesce to their prompting, their guid-
> ance against God into sin, they gain a legal license to enter in to that
> body and are then having a direct physical influence into this world.
> 
> It's why our media, our movies, our music, the "powers that be" in various
> high level places, are all pushing "tolerance" and pushing Christianity
> (and in general God's morality taught to people) out.  It's because they
> want to make more and more room for their brethren to come out and corrupt
> God's creation of man to such an extent that where they will be judged and
> cast into Hell, so will so many of us that God will not want to see His
> creation destroyed, so He will change His laws, saving His creation, and
> in so doing saving those evil spirits as well.
> 
> That's my personal take on the situation, as it fits with what we see,
> what the Bible teaches, the nature of the influence evil spirits have
> had in people over time, how it's changed people's behavior, dominated
> their flesh, tempted them into immorality, etc.
> 
> So, before Christ came and gave us His Holy Spirit, before He physically
> took away our sin at the cross, before man could be regenerated into the
> new spirit life, God was ONLY dealing with the people here on Earth in
> the flesh.  He gave them a seeming harsh/strict set of laws to obey.  In
> now understanding the spirit nature of the enemy we face and the battles
> we face against those evil spirits, we see that God was focusing His
> people's attentions on rigid requirements, to give them discipline, to
> give them focus, to give them a way to combat the enemy's influence into
> their societies, communities, families, nation, etc.
> 
> Israel often disobeyed, however, and we see the corruption of the Israel
> people today because of it.  Compromised to such an extent due to the
> turning away of God's guidance through the Law of Moses, such that most
> Jews only celebrate major holidays, do not refrain from many of those
> things taught in the Law, do not stone people any longer, etc.
> 
> This has happened during this age of Grace, when God reached out to the
> Gentiles (non-Jews) world-wide, offering them salvation, because of how
> His people (Israel) had rejected Him, even crucifying Him on the cross.
> A type of blinders has been put on their eyes and minds so they cannot
> see Jesus as the Messiah, and during this time God reaches out to the
> rest of us (the non-Jews) and offers salvation.
> 
> God searches hearts and minds and intents and purposes to see who it is
> that is seeking the truth, or would seek the truth if given the oppor-
> tunity.  He reaches into their lives supernaturally and using the same
> type of spiritual influence the evil spirits use, except He uses it in
> no evil way, but in a positive way, God guides the person to come to His
> Son, ask forgiveness, and be saved.  The person really does come to the
> cross and ask forgiveness, but they would never have done so without
> that drawing of God, because in their flesh they are literally dead
> spiritually.  But by God's spiritual prompting, they move, and in this
> world, by their mouth, in their thoughts, by their flesh, they ask Him
> to forgive their sin, which enables the transaction to take place.
> 
> The power of life and death is in our tongue.
> 
> God has promised a time when His attentions will again be restored to
> the Jews.  At that time, which many Christians believe will come after
> the rapture, the Jews who are transformed in this way will then see
> Jesus as their Messiah, will then know the Law of God in their heart
> and in their mind.  They won't need someone to teach it to them, be-
> cause they will simply know it on the inside by the spirit guidance
> God will give them, which gives them new knowledge the flesh cannot
> know.
> 
> Those former Jews will become the "new Christians" during that time,
> leading people to Christ, likely doing miracles as the Apostles did
> during their time here on Earth.  It will be an unprecedented time a
> pouring out of God's spirit upon all flesh, such that men and women
> will move to serve Him in ways not seen since the century when Christ
> was on the Earth.
> 
> It is the time in the very end when the final seven years will come
> upon the people of the Earth, when God pours out His wrath upon all
> flesh that has become corrupt.  It is the preparation for the coming
> Millennial Age where Christ will rule upon the Earth for 1,000 years,
> the day of rest representative of God creating the Earth in 6 days,
> and on the 7th day He rested, with God having dealt with man for the
> Biblical timeline of 6,000 years, with a 1,000 year "day of rest,"
> as it were, for to God 1,000 years is as a day, and a day is as 1,000
> years.
> 
>> How about after the death of the flesh... Should gay people suffer 
>> forever?
> 
> Those involved in sin will suffer torment forever in the unending
> flames of Hell.  That includes you too, Chris, with your flippant,
> tolerant, wibbly-wobbly attitude/position, and your unrepentant, un-
> coming-to-Jesus-asking-forgiveness state.

Now, that statement in particular, is really nice to hear today! Thanks 
Rick. :^)


> It is SIN that will be cast down, all sin.  Not just "gay people,"
> but rather sinners.

So, there are really nice people, that just happen to be gay, burning in 
hell right now?

[...]

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#139042

On 12/24/2018 6:44 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/24/2018 3:35 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 12/24/2018 5:16 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> How about after the death of the flesh... Should gay people suffer forever?
>>
>> Those involved in sin will suffer torment forever in the unending
>> flames of Hell.  That includes you too, Chris, with your flippant,
>> tolerant, wibbly-wobbly attitude/position, and your unrepentant, un-
>> coming-to-Jesus-asking-forgiveness state.
> 
> Now, that statement in particular, is really nice to hear today! Thanks Rick. 
> :^)

When will you die, Chris?  What day?  What hour?  What moment?  Would
you rather enter eternity without having heard of the opportunity to
have your sin forgiven?

The word "gospel" means "good news!"  It is incredible news that God
has made peace with man (read Luke 2 and the true Christmas story).

>> It is SIN that will be cast down, all sin.  Not just "gay people,"
>> but rather sinners.
> 
> So, there are really nice people, that just happen to be gay, burning in hell 
> right now?

No.  The Bible teaches that everyone who dies goes into a type of sleep.
It is not natural sleep, but a different sleep, but it is similar.  On
the final day, each person will be awakened, summoned by name, called
before the Great White Throne judgment, where each soul will be judged
by the things they did here.

The books of the records recording the actions and events in each per-
son's life will be opened.  The dead will be judged according to those
things written down, which will be their full lives recorded in every
detail.  Thoughts, emotions, the reasons of the heart, the hidden things
people kept on the inside while saying other things with their mouths.
Every "secret sin," every thing people did thinking no-one else saw.
All of it will be brought to light.

People will be awakened from their post-death sleep, and they will be
judged based on what they did, and specifically what they did or didn't
do with Christ.

Only those who have come to Jesus and asked forgiveness for their sin
will be saved, along with those who had put their hope in the Messiah,
such as the Jews of the past, those of the present, who are truly living
their lives in pursuit of God and God's guidance in this world, rather
than in pursuit of the world's guidance.

When Jesus takes away our sin, He leaves us with only His perfect
righteousness.  Our list of sins, the things written in those books,
go to Him.  It's what it means in this video:

     Begins at 20:20 with a brief introduction.  The red pages in
     the folders represent sin.  See how Jesus takes the sin away
     from each person He saves, and puts that sin in His own pile,
     paving the way for us to be set free, as He agrees to pay the
     price of that sin before God:

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es7w8G6Q5oc&t=23m20s

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#139075

On 12/24/2018 3:55 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 12/24/2018 6:44 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>> On 12/24/2018 3:35 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> On 12/24/2018 5:16 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>> How about after the death of the flesh... Should gay people suffer 
>>>> forever?
>>>
>>> Those involved in sin will suffer torment forever in the unending
>>> flames of Hell.  That includes you too, Chris, with your flippant,
>>> tolerant, wibbly-wobbly attitude/position, and your unrepentant, un-
>>> coming-to-Jesus-asking-forgiveness state.
>>
>> Now, that statement in particular, is really nice to hear today! 
>> Thanks Rick. :^)
> 
> When will you die, Chris?  What day?  What hour?  What moment?  Would
> you rather enter eternity without having heard of the opportunity to
> have your sin forgiven?
> 
> The word "gospel" means "good news!"  It is incredible news that God
> has made peace with man (read Luke 2 and the true Christmas story).
> 
>>> It is SIN that will be cast down, all sin.  Not just "gay people,"
>>> but rather sinners.
>>
>> So, there are really nice people, that just happen to be gay, burning 
>> in hell right now?
> 
> No.  The Bible teaches that everyone who dies goes into a type of sleep.
> It is not natural sleep, but a different sleep, but it is similar.  On
> the final day, each person will be awakened, summoned by name, called
> before the Great White Throne judgment, where each soul will be judged
> by the things they did here.
> 
> The books of the records recording the actions and events in each per-
> son's life will be opened.  The dead will be judged according to those
> things written down, which will be their full lives recorded in every
> detail.  Thoughts, emotions, the reasons of the heart, the hidden things
> people kept on the inside while saying other things with their mouths.
> Every "secret sin," every thing people did thinking no-one else saw.
> All of it will be brought to light.
> 
> People will be awakened from their post-death sleep, and they will be
> judged based on what they did, and specifically what they did or didn't
> do with Christ.

Interesting. I thought that to be absent from the body is to be present 
with the Lord. There is no queue, I think that the infinite God can have 
a personal conversation with multiple entities, human or not, at the 
same time, and never forget anything involved. Afaict, God remembers it 
forever, verbatim... Think of God as having infinite fractal like 
compound insect like senses, with infinite resolution, with a perfect 
memory that never forgets, and is always fair because it knows the truth 
at all times. It was never created, and will never pass away. It is as 
it is.


> 
> Only those who have come to Jesus and asked forgiveness for their sin
> will be saved, along with those who had put their hope in the Messiah,
> such as the Jews of the past, those of the present, who are truly living
> their lives in pursuit of God and God's guidance in this world, rather
> than in pursuit of the world's guidance.
> 
> When Jesus takes away our sin, He leaves us with only His perfect
> righteousness.  Our list of sins, the things written in those books,
> go to Him.  It's what it means in this video:
> 
>      Begins at 20:20 with a brief introduction.  The red pages in
>      the folders represent sin.  See how Jesus takes the sin away
>      from each person He saves, and puts that sin in His own pile,
>      paving the way for us to be set free, as He agrees to pay the
>      price of that sin before God:
> 
>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es7w8G6Q5oc&t=23m20s
> 

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#139077

On 12/26/2018 1:20 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 12/24/2018 3:55 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 12/24/2018 6:44 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> So, there are really nice people, that just happen to be gay, burning in 
>>> hell right now?
>>
>> No.  The Bible teaches that everyone who dies goes into a type of sleep.
>> It is not natural sleep, but a different sleep, but it is similar.  On
>> the final day, each person will be awakened, summoned by name, called
>> before the Great White Throne judgment, where each soul will be judged
>> by the things they did here.
>>
>> The books of the records recording the actions and events in each per-
>> son's life will be opened.  The dead will be judged according to those
>> things written down, which will be their full lives recorded in every
>> detail.  Thoughts, emotions, the reasons of the heart, the hidden things
>> people kept on the inside while saying other things with their mouths.
>> Every "secret sin," every thing people did thinking no-one else saw.
>> All of it will be brought to light.
>>
>> People will be awakened from their post-death sleep, and they will be
>> judged based on what they did, and specifically what they did or didn't
>> do with Christ.
> 
> Interesting. I thought that to be absent from the body is to be present with 
> the Lord.

That is true for Christians, for they are already alive eternally because
their sin has been forgiven, the required punishment of sin (eternal death)
has been taken away.

It's what it means to be "born again," to be born of the spirit, eternal
life, no longer dead, no longer flesh-only, and we no longer need have a
fear of death because we are already alive eternally, and this world is
not our home.

> There is no queue, I think that the infinite God can have a 
> personal conversation with multiple entities, human or not, at the same time, 
> and never forget anything involved. Afaict, God remembers it forever, 
> verbatim... Think of God as having infinite fractal like compound insect like 
> senses, with infinite resolution, with a perfect memory that never forgets, 
> and is always fair because it knows the truth at all times. It was never 
> created, and will never pass away. It is as it is.

For the unsaved person, they go to sleep.  Their spirit is not reunited
with their body until Judgment Day.  They appear before God to give an
account of their life, are found guilty in that "courtroom," and are
literally cast headlong into the Lake of Fire.

Read Revelation 20, specifically verses 11+:

     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=KJV

     11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from
        whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was
        found no place for them.
==> 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the
        books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the
        book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which
        were written in the books, according to their works.
     13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and
        hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were
        judged every man according to their works.
==> 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the
        second death.
==> 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast
        into the lake of fire.

Reading earlier in that chapter, you see that those who "died in Christ"
(died to self) are re-born spiritually, and they do not face judgment,
but are already passed from death to life.  They come back with Christ
and reign 1,000 years during Christ's "day of rest" here on this Earth,
after the 6,000 years of labor, and 1,000 years of rest, following God's
pattern of creation for creating the world in six days, and then resting
on the seventh.

In addition, as with natural sleep, are you aware of the hours passing
between the time you go to sleep and when you wake up?  With this type
of sleep it is similar.  Those who died will see these events happen:

     1)  They die.
     2)  They are summoned by name in Heaven to give an account of
         their Earthly life.
     3)  They appear before God.

What they are unaware of is possibly 1) because Paul records that
the person he describes who was called up to the third Heaven could
not determine if they were in the body or in the spirit because it
was so real, yet it was so different from Earth that he knew it was
even unlawful to speak of the things seen/discussed there, and a
missing 1.5) step where they go to sleep.

Those people who died throughout history without being saved will
all be summoned on the same day.  They will wake up, be given their
eternal faculties, go to God's court at the Great White Throne
Judgment, and then give the account of their life.  They will self-
condemn as they recount unendingly the sinful things they did.  They
will, on that day, finally realize that it's all true, because their
spirit will know the truth, and their eyes will be seeing it, but
the weight of their conviction will be pressing upon them.  The
Bible records "there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

It's why we are to call on the Lord today and ask forgiveness.  For
the Christian, he/she comes to God broken, humbled, realizing they
are a sinner, feeling guilt and conviction over their sin.  They
bow down before the throne (figuratively, and sometimes literally),
and admit they are a sinner, admit that they need Jesus, ask Him
to forgive their sin, to which He does when it is a sincere form
of repentance and asking.

That person then has their spirit come alive in that moment.  They
are then restored to their true nature (soul no longer under judg-
ment, spirit alive, still attached to this in-sin physical body,
to receive their permanent eternal incorruptible body after they
leave this world), and they then move in this world different than
the world and the people of the world, proclaiming the merits of
Christ, of loving one another, of helping one another, of giving
to one another, etc.

It's why new Christians change so much.  They are guided by the
Holy Spirit communing with their spirit, and they literally change
everything about their life initially.  But the enemy does not
slack, and he regroups and analyzes and comes back at people.  He
targets their flesh and tries to find ways to pull them back in
to following their flesh, so they will not be focused on the
spirit, will not be following after spiritual things, but will be
weakened by the flesh.

It's like kryptonite for Christians.  It takes away all our right
and true focus on God, for the flesh reaps only to corruption,
and the spirit reaps only unto life everlasting, to right service
to God, to a true love for our fellow man (saved, and unsaved).

-----
Do not take my word for any of this, Chris.  Pick up a Bible and
read for yourself.  Learn personally what God teaches us.  And
when you have questions ask and you will find that God provides
for your questions adequately, when they are sincere questions
from a truth-seeking heart.  But to mockers, double-minded men
and women ... to them there will be no answer given, until the
day of judgment.

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#139078 — You are so full of shit (Was: Shorthand ~> pointers)

In article <pvvl8v$5tn$1@dont-email.me>,
Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
...
>That is true for Christians, for they are already alive eternally because

You are so full of shit.

-- 
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long.  As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs.  In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
	http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Noam

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#139079 — Re: You are so full of .. (Was: Shorthand ~> pointers)

On 12/26/2018 9:10 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <pvvl8v$5tn$1@dont-email.me>,
> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>> That is true for Christians, for they are already alive eternally because
> You are so full of .. .

You make a claim.  Your claim is based on what?  Me personally?  That I
am a flawed human being?  Or that those things I convey regarding the
Bible and Christianity are incorrect?

Judge for yourself (Jesus speaking):

     https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+5%3A24&version=KJV

     24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and
        believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall
        not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

It says, "is passed" (present tense).  Jesus also told the thief on the
cross that "this day" he would be with Jesus in paradise.  Jesus still
had to die on the cross, be buried, and on the third day rise again.
He even told (Mary on the morning He rose) not to handle Him yet, because
He had not yet returned to the Father.

So how was He able to be with the thief on the cross who repented "this
day" in Heaven, when three days later He hadn't yet ascended back to
Heaven?

The spirit nature is eternal, Kenny.  It exists outside of conventional
time, and is alive in a way differently than our corporeal, temporal
lives here.  Remember also, it was on the 8th day God gave the command
for males to be circumcised, an "everlasting covenant" between God and
man, and the circumcision was to mark them between man and God.

Six days of creation (6,000 years), a day of rest (the millennial reign,
1,000 years), then the 8th day begins (the everlasting covenant between
God and man, and subsequently between man and God).

The Bible confirms itself in multiple ways, your personally held beliefs
contrary to its teachings notwithstanding.

Jesus will save your eternal soul, Kenny.  All you have to do is accept
that you are a sinner (compared to God's perfect righteous standard),
recognize that Jesus came to save us by His death on the cross, and to
then ask Him to forgive your sin while being in true repentance.

Confess with your mouth, believe in your heart, and you will be saved.

Eternal life... for sinners.  It's God's greatest gift to each of us.
It's the one thing in life we must all receive in order to have eternal
life in Heaven, and to not be cast into eternal Hellfire.

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#139080 — Re: You are so full of shit (Was: Shorthand ~> pointers)

In article <q0046g$mt5$1@dont-email.me>,
Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 12/26/2018 9:10 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>> In article <pvvl8v$5tn$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>> That is true for Christians, for they are already alive eternally because
>> You are so full of shit.
>
>You make a claim.  Your claim is based on what?  Me personally?  That I

You are so full of shit.

-- 
"Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS
crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in
TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in
bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither."

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#138983

On 24/12/2018 06:15, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 12/23/2018 10:28 AM, Bart wrote:
>> Suppose you type a~~c but the path it uses isn't the one you expected?
> 
> There should be only one c.  If there is more than one it would be a
> syntax error.
> 
>> In my own code, very long dotted sequences are not that common, the longest
>> are probably 4 or 5 names. And those tend to have multiple paths and/or
>> involve recursive structs.
> 
> Mine too.  I typically use 3 or 4 max.
> 
>> So the conditions to be able to use ~~ effectively are going to be rare.
> 
> On oft-used structures in my apps, for things like SWindow or SObject,
> I often refer to them as SWindow* w, as well as SObject* o for a short-
> hand common reference.  By dropping that "anchor" of the short parent
> name, and then referencing a unique name, it makes the code more clear
> for instance names:
> 
>       w~~left;
>       w~~top;
> 
> Rather than something like w->settings->rc.left, etc.  It's another type
> of shorthand for that reference, making it more clear in source code
> what's being used, without the visual clutter of the multiple levels.

Just write

auto& box {w->settings->rc};

box.left = something;

which will always be unambiguous.

Your scheme falls down as soon a you have a struct with more than one 
compound member of the same type.

-- 
Ian.

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#138989

On 12/23/2018 2:26 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
> On 24/12/2018 06:15, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>       w~~left;
>>       w~~top;
>>
>> Rather than something like w->settings->rc.left, etc.  It's another type
>> of shorthand for that reference, making it more clear in source code
>> what's being used, without the visual clutter of the multiple levels.
> 
> Just write
> auto& box {w->settings->rc};
> box.left = something;
> which will always be unambiguous.

That general idea is what I do today.  It requires me creating box,
which is what the ~~ no longer requires.  It also removes one more
line of source code, yet at the expense of not having the lengthy
reference somewhere nearby.  If the reference is not common, you'll
probably want it.  But if it's under an umbrella like "settings" it
may not be needed as it's an obvious part of the design.

> Your scheme falls down as soon a you have a struct with more than one 
> compound member of the same type.

You can include compound members:

     w~~rc1.left
     w~~rc2.left

The shorthand portion takes up the common portion, leaving only the
unique portion as the focus in code.

It's not for everything.  It's a tool for where it has uses.

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#139172

Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> writes:

>> [proposal of funky new operator]
>
> Just write
>
> auto& box {w->settings->rc};
>
> box.left = something;
>
> which will always be unambiguous.

Please limit newsgroups for c++ specific comments so they don't
go to comp.lang.c.

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#139045

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:15:04 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin"
<rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 12/23/2018 10:28 AM, Bart wrote:
>> Suppose you type a~~c but the path it uses isn't the one you expected?
>
>There should be only one c.  If there is more than one it would be a
>syntax error.

I use self-referntial structures a lot. Trees, lists, graphs.

struct a { struct a *a; } *a;

How does a~~a resolve?

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#139048

On 12/24/2018 10:56 PM, Scott wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:15:04 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin"
> <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 12/23/2018 10:28 AM, Bart wrote:
>>> Suppose you type a~~c but the path it uses isn't the one you expected?
>>
>> There should be only one c.  If there is more than one it would be a
>> syntax error.
> 
> I use self-referntial structures a lot. Trees, lists, graphs.
> 
> struct a { struct a *a; } *a;
> 
> How does a~~a resolve?

The left-most a is the pointer.  It then searches a's members, finds a,
and stop there.

It will not enter recursion, but stops at the first match.

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#139067

On 12/24/18 11:55 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On 12/24/2018 10:56 PM, Scott wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:15:04 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin"
>> <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/23/2018 10:28 AM, Bart wrote:
>>>> Suppose you type a~~c but the path it uses isn't the one you expected?
>>>
>>> There should be only one c.  If there is more than one it would be a
>>> syntax error.
>>
>> I use self-referntial structures a lot. Trees, lists, graphs.
>>
>> struct a { struct a *a; } *a;
>>
>> How does a~~a resolve?
> 
> The left-most a is the pointer.  It then searches a's members, finds a,
> and stop there.
> 
> It will not enter recursion, but stops at the first match.
> 

What I see as a more problematical issue would be something like

struct A {
  struct A* a;
  int i
} *a;

which i would a~~i find, possibilities are:

a->i
a->a->i
a->a->a->i

I would prefer for it to uniformly, and unambiguosuly find a->i in this
case, but you can run into issues of where is the boarder between this
possible ambiguity and other more fundamental ambiguities.

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#139068

On 12/25/2018 10:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 12/24/18 11:55 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>> On 12/24/2018 10:56 PM, Scott wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 12:15:04 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin"
>>> <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/23/2018 10:28 AM, Bart wrote:
>>>>> Suppose you type a~~c but the path it uses isn't the one you expected?
>>>>
>>>> There should be only one c.  If there is more than one it would be a
>>>> syntax error.
>>>
>>> I use self-referntial structures a lot. Trees, lists, graphs.
>>>
>>> struct a { struct a *a; } *a;
>>>
>>> How does a~~a resolve?
>>
>> The left-most a is the pointer.  It then searches a's members, finds a,
>> and stop there.
>>
>> It will not enter recursion, but stops at the first match.
>>
> 
> What I see as a more problematical issue would be something like
> 
> struct A {
>    struct A* a;
>    int i
> } *a;
> 
> which i would a~~i find, possibilities are:
> 
> a->i
> a->a->i
> a->a->a->i
> 
> I would prefer for it to uniformly, and unambiguosuly find a->i in this
> case, but you can run into issues of where is the boarder between this
> possible ambiguity and other more fundamental ambiguities.

That would never be an issue.  The case won't iterate through recursion.
It reaches the first level of a structure which points back to a parent
in its hierarchy/progeny, and then ceases.

Your example would only ever find:

     a->i

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#139022

In comp.lang.c++ Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> I think it's equally silly to require that a user type out the fully
>> qualified path to a uniquely named variable in a system where it's
>> not likely that there will be a name conflict.
> 
> Suppose you type a~~c but the path it uses isn't the one you expected?

How about a compromise? In a similar manner how you can write
namespace aliases in C++, you could create "path aliases". Something
along the lines of:

using A~>b = A->x->y->b;

Maybe you could even "bring" the scope of a member object into the
scope of the enclosing object in a similar manner.

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#139041

On 12/24/2018 6:22 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
> In comp.lang.c++ Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> I think it's equally silly to require that a user type out the fully
>>> qualified path to a uniquely named variable in a system where it's
>>> not likely that there will be a name conflict.
>>
>> Suppose you type a~~c but the path it uses isn't the one you expected?
> 
> How about a compromise? In a similar manner how you can write
> namespace aliases in C++, you could create "path aliases". Something
> along the lines of:
> 
> using A~>b = A->x->y->b;
> 
> Maybe you could even "bring" the scope of a member object into the
> scope of the enclosing object in a similar manner.
> 

Humm... Need to think on this one. It sounds okay.

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#138941

AT Sunday 23 December 2018 02:42, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:

> On 12/22/2018 1:39 PM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>> In comp.lang.c++ Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 12/21/2018 6:36 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>> In comp.lang.c++ Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>>> Uniqueness of the member might not be enough. There might be multiple
>>>>> paths to that unique member
>>>>
>>>> Another problem is that a member may become non-unique in the future,
>>>> breaking all code that uses the shortcut syntax.
>>>
>>> Two things:  #1 -- The developer making that change would know it
>>> immediately, and likely then pick another name
>> 
>> You might not have control over the names in those structs you are
>> adding as members of this struct. Maybe they are structs from some
>> libraries that you don't have control over (or otherwise shouldn't
>> be changing).
> 
> True.  In those cases, don't use shorthand pointers.  An option could
> be added to the compiler to disallow them.

So there is a simple general solution: Don't use it at all.
 
-- 
Reinhardt

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#138957

On 12/23/2018 3:31 AM, Reinhardt Behm wrote:
> AT Sunday 23 December 2018 02:42, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> 
>> On 12/22/2018 1:39 PM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>> In comp.lang.c++ Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 12/21/2018 6:36 AM, Juha Nieminen wrote:
>>>>> In comp.lang.c++ Bart <bc@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Uniqueness of the member might not be enough. There might be multiple
>>>>>> paths to that unique member
>>>>>
>>>>> Another problem is that a member may become non-unique in the future,
>>>>> breaking all code that uses the shortcut syntax.
>>>>
>>>> Two things:  #1 -- The developer making that change would know it
>>>> immediately, and likely then pick another name
>>>
>>> You might not have control over the names in those structs you are
>>> adding as members of this struct. Maybe they are structs from some
>>> libraries that you don't have control over (or otherwise shouldn't
>>> be changing).
>>
>> True.  In those cases, don't use shorthand pointers.  An option could
>> be added to the compiler to disallow them.
> 
> So there is a simple general solution: Don't use it at all.

As with all language extensions ... you don't have to use any of them.
How many extensions does GCC offer?  Yet there are many C/C++ developers
who will not go beyond the core language, a POSIX subset/extension, etc.

It's the same in every usage of the language.  People determine which
of the various features they'll use, and then limits themselves to those
features.

I use a C++ compiler to write C code, because I like the stricter typing
and some of its relaxed syntax allowances... but I don't use 90% of what
C++ was written to provide.  I don't find value in those extensions, so
I limit my coding.

I think it's more or less the same with everyone.

-- 
Rick C. Hodgin

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#138832

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 21:31:34 -0500, "Rick C. Hodgin"
<rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:

>I've had the idea to introduce the ~> symbol for shorthand pointers.

It's a bad idea. I had to go back and remind myself why, and it's for
much the same reason that Pascal's "with" keyword turned out to be a
bad idea. It brings ambiguity, hides scoping issues, makes code easier
to write at the expense of being harder to read.

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