Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write

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From	Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write
Date	Mon, 19 Sep 2016 11:26:21 -0700
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David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
[...]
> Perhaps the more significant change is that currently the C standards
> document are each written to succeed and replace previous versions.
> There is only one current valid ISO C standard - the version known as
> C11.  A "C compiler" made today has to follow that version of the
> standard.  If a future C standard dropped support for some older
> hardware, then there would really need to be a fork in the standards -
> so that C11 would still be a valid standard for old systems, with C20
> (or whatever) going onward for modern ones.

The previous editions of the standard are officially obsolete in the
eyes of ISO.  That doesn't prevent anyone from using them.  I'm not
convinced that a formal fork would be necessary.  Implementations
could still claim C99 or C11 conformance.

[...]

> No, 64-bit int is not a sensible idea (IMHO).  Extended integer types
> could solve some of the problems it would create, but at significant
> effort to toolchain authors, library writers (someone has to make a
> "printf" that supports the different sizes in some way), and significant
> inconvenience in data exchange.  It is data exchange (by network
> protocols, file formats, etc.) that drives the need for standardisation
> here.

N1570 6.2.5p5:

    A "plain" int object has the natural size suggested by the
    architecture of the execution environment [...].

For a 64-bit target, surely 64 bits is "the natural size suggested by
the architecture".

> And what is to be gained with 64-bit int?  There is some hardware that
> can operate more efficiently on a 64-bit object than a 32-bit object -
> but such hardware is niche or obsolete (i.e., old Cray machines), and
> therefore excluded.  Is there any software benefit in having 64-bit int?
>  I think not - it is rare indeed that you actually need such a large
> integer type, and C already has perfectly good ones that you can use in
> that case (int64_t and long long int).

I haven't looked into the relative performance of 32-bit and 64-bit
arithmetic on modern 64-bit systems.  It seems plausible (but is quite
possibly wrong) that an N-bit system will perform most efficiently on
N-bit data.

On the other hand, I'm sure designers have expended some effort to make
32-bit arithmetic efficient -- largely *because* C implementations
typically have 32-bit int.

> It is not a coincidence that the only systems with 64-bit int are
> ancient, and pre-date the common usage of 64-bit processors.

Are there *no* modern 64-bit processors on which 64-bit arithmetic is
faster than 32-bit arithmetic?  Can you be sure there will be no such
processors in the future?

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

Thread

Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-10 14:23 -0700
  Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2016-09-10 17:11 -0700
  Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-11 07:00 -0700
  Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2016-09-13 08:41 -0400
    Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-13 06:24 -0700
      Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-13 16:19 +0200
        Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-13 10:20 -0700
          Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-13 11:07 -0700
        Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-13 20:47 -0700
          Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-14 08:24 -0700
            Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-15 12:17 -0700
          Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-15 11:27 +0200
            Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 09:03 -0700
              Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-15 11:21 -0700
              Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-15 18:39 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 12:26 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-15 23:12 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 16:17 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-15 18:35 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-16 11:10 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 08:43 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-16 19:59 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 13:34 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-16 16:23 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 15:31 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-16 19:06 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 23:27 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-17 15:04 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-17 20:35 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 00:09 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-18 19:36 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 15:29 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-19 01:20 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-18 09:48 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 19:38 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-18 15:33 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 13:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 14:15 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-18 23:15 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 15:46 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-19 17:03 +1200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 07:40 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 10:54 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 10:51 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 22:03 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 15:44 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 09:02 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-19 21:12 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 15:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 09:49 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-19 02:37 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 13:20 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-19 06:22 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-19 12:46 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 16:20 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 07:32 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 11:26 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 09:10 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-19 09:33 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 11:54 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 22:14 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 22:12 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 14:32 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2016-09-19 22:58 -0500
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 09:45 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-20 07:49 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 19:43 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-20 11:15 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-19 22:36 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-22 21:30 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-22 23:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-23 19:45 +1200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-28 08:17 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-28 09:59 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-29 07:59 +1300
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-09-28 19:26 +0000
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-28 12:37 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-10-09 03:46 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 13:53 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-21 21:03 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-21 22:23 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-22 08:09 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-23 10:31 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-23 10:56 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-29 08:03 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-30 07:39 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-22 09:49 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-22 08:34 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-22 17:44 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-09-22 17:16 +0000
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-22 18:26 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2016-09-22 17:33 +0000
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 10:23 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-23 13:43 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 14:58 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-22 18:14 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-22 20:28 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-23 00:12 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-22 10:57 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-23 10:18 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-23 11:48 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-23 15:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-29 08:21 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-30 07:42 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-23 23:38 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-24 11:42 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-24 14:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-24 23:03 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-25 11:29 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 14:02 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-25 15:17 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 16:52 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 13:59 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-25 15:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 15:50 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-28 08:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-24 16:06 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-24 11:53 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-24 14:23 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 14:16 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-25 15:18 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-25 16:39 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-25 23:33 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-26 02:08 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-26 10:25 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-26 03:05 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-26 11:09 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-26 09:29 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-26 17:37 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-26 12:29 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-26 11:12 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-26 13:19 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-26 18:34 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-09-27 06:43 +0000
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-27 00:51 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-27 08:42 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-22 11:40 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-23 10:00 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-23 10:34 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-29 08:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 00:06 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-17 17:32 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 15:57 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-17 20:46 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 16:08 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 10:03 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-17 23:59 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-17 16:49 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-18 01:19 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 07:16 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-18 10:19 -0400
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 13:26 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-18 17:04 -0400
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-22 01:21 -0700
            Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-15 12:07 -0700
              Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-16 00:32 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 16:30 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-15 18:35 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-15 22:00 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-15 22:17 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-16 18:12 +1200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 00:46 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-16 10:23 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-16 10:59 +0100
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 04:13 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-16 08:58 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 10:16 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2016-09-16 09:11 -0700
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-16 20:14 +0200
                Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 20:37 -0700
      Re: Portable 16 bit binary integer write supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-13 07:47 -0700

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