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Groups > comp.lang.c > #129723
| From | Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet |
| Date | 2018-04-25 09:24 -0700 |
| Organization | None to speak of |
| Message-ID | <ln604fi78x.fsf@kst-u.example.com> (permalink) |
| References | <slrnpducru.1ub.dan@xps-linux.djph.net> <kfnzi1s1unz.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <slrnpdushh.jmn.dan@xps-linux.djph.net> <d04792eb-0a93-46a3-8499-ecc4377dc31d@googlegroups.com> |
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> You have to be careful with the consensus.
>
> For example the consensus in this ng will be that Schild's tutorials
> should be avoided. That's because they contain technical errors. But
> that doesn't actually matter too much for a tutorial, people who don't
> have much experience teaching often think that teaching an error is
> a disaster, in fact it's often better to teach a simplification. For
> example void main() is an error in C (C programs must return a
> success / failure flag to the environment, so it should be int main())
> but the vast majority of compilers accept it, and in fact the flag isn't
> really of any use for beginner-level programs.
I strongly disagree with almost everything in that paragraph.
Technical errors in a tutorial do matter. Victims of bad tutorials
can pick up bad habits that last for decades.
Schildt's use of void main() is inexcusable, not just because
it's wrong but because it's a symptom of his technical sloppiness.
He wrote a book "The Annotated ANSI C Standard" consisting of the
1990 ISO C standard with his annotations on facing pages. He used
"void main(void)" as an example right next to the section of the
standard that requires the return type to be int.
In some environments (particularly Unix-like ones), returning a
success/failure indication to the calling environment is *important*.
Using "void main()" or "void main(void)" rather than the correct
"int main(void)" isn't even a significant simplification. And it's
just one of probably hundreds of fundamental errors he made in that
one book.
Incidentally, the C90 standard didn't even have the "or in some
other implementation-defined manner" wording; that was added in C99.
So "void main(void) {}" unconditionally has undefined behavior in C90,
the standard he was discussing.
https://www.davros.org/c/schildt.html
https://www.seebs.net/c/c_tcn4e.html
Teaching a simplified version of something can be useful, but that's
not what Schildt did. He just got things wrong.
[...]
--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Working, but not speaking, for JetHead Development, Inc.
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
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Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-24 13:39 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-24 16:38 +0100
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-24 13:40 -0400
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-24 08:38 -0700
[Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-24 18:06 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-25 07:33 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 07:49 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-25 21:28 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-04-28 14:26 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-28 20:25 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-04-29 15:12 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-29 16:49 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-04-30 15:30 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-30 17:06 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 09:12 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-05-02 15:19 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 07:54 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-05-03 12:45 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2018-05-05 14:22 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 08:42 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-05-07 16:34 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 09:37 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-04 10:19 +0200
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 11:31 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 08:53 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-29 18:14 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 08:54 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 09:24 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 18:10 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 10:48 -0700
Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-04-25 19:23 +0000
Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Bruce S <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 16:55 -0600
Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 16:03 -0700
Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Bruce S <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-25 18:02 -0600
Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 17:14 -0700
Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Bruce S <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2018-04-26 13:31 -0600
Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-04-26 03:27 +0000
Re: Casting the return value of malloc() (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-26 11:06 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet 1alvinalbrecht1@gmail.com - 2018-04-25 18:41 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-26 07:26 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 16:26 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-25 21:50 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 01:47 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 02:18 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-26 11:18 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-26 11:33 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 05:26 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-27 00:09 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 09:14 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-26 10:26 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-27 00:02 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 02:35 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-04-27 11:34 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2018-04-27 04:14 -0700
STDIO.H vs stdio.h (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-04-27 13:08 +0000
Re: STDIO.H vs stdio.h (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2018-04-27 18:52 +0200
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 07:08 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 10:36 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-27 19:04 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 11:26 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-27 18:45 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 03:43 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-30 09:10 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 23:32 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-26 07:33 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet jameskuyper@verizon.net - 2018-04-26 08:38 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-04-27 03:30 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-27 08:41 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-27 17:04 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 11:06 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-27 20:15 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 13:47 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-27 22:06 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 14:51 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-28 00:25 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 17:23 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-28 01:39 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-27 19:22 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-04 10:36 +0200
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-05-04 11:21 +0100
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 04:03 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-04 14:03 +0200
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 09:19 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-05-04 11:00 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-05-05 18:39 +0200
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-07 16:23 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-28 12:11 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 14:12 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-28 12:21 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-04 13:31 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 17:19 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-05-18 21:55 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2018-05-21 03:26 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-06-14 03:00 -0700
Mixing declarations and statements in C code (Was: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-12-26 06:43 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-12-26 19:02 +0300
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-12-31 18:01 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-12-31 17:16 -0500
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-12-31 22:44 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2019-01-01 19:14 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 13:14 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-01 12:49 -0800
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 15:55 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-01-01 16:05 -0800
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2019-01-01 22:17 -0700
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-01-01 20:25 +0000
Re: [Solved] Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-05-04 11:48 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Ed Kellett <e@kellett.im> - 2018-04-24 16:40 +0100
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 11:01 -0700
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-24 15:50 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 17:21 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-24 13:20 -0400
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2018-04-24 13:30 -0400
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 17:42 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-24 18:26 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-25 19:19 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2018-04-25 21:30 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-04-25 22:55 +0100
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-27 08:49 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-25 15:37 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-25 09:27 -0700
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-04-26 13:22 +0200
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 09:21 -0700
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2018-04-27 08:16 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-04-27 09:36 -0700
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-05-04 10:41 +0200
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 14:27 +0000
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-24 11:09 -0700
Re: Need some help getting to my feet C W Rose <cwr@seckford.org> - 2018-04-25 18:59 +0100
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-04-26 10:42 -0700
Re: Need some help getting to my feet Steven Petruzzellis <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 00:23 -0700
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