Re: Continue with learning C

From	"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Continue with learning C
Date	2016-09-19 08:55 -0500
Message-ID	<e4a92mF6jvuU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <nrkm32$dj4$1@dont-email.me> <nrm8ss$dki$1@dont-email.me> <nrmcav$p43$1@dont-email.me> <nrme08$uvl$1@dont-email.me> <535677cf-85b1-4726-8a06-7e298b2621fb@googlegroups.com>

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"Alla _" wrote:

> On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 7:05:42 PM UTC+3, Richard Heathfield 
> wrote:
>> On 18/09/16 16:37, BartC wrote:
>> > On 18/09/2016 15:38, David Brown wrote:
>> >> On 18/09/16 02:11, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> >
>> >> For small enough pieces of software, or for software that is so 
>> >> critical
>> >> that the cost of bugs is extremely high, the rounding may mean that 
>> >> you
>> >> end up with zero bugs.  But for complex commodity software, you
>> >> absolutely expect to ship with bugs.
>> >
>> > Didn't the Space Shuttle have multiple backup computers, one of which
>> > was programmed by a different team to make sure they didn't share the
>> > same bugs?
>> >
>> >
>> >> It is not embarrassing - it is
>> >> fundamental probability and economics.  To use Malcolm's earlier
>> >> example, the customer in the USA does not want to pay twice as much 
>> >> for
>> >> his word processor in order to be sure that customers in Israel can 
>> >> mix
>> >> Hebrew and English without problems.
>> >
>> > And wasn't it Knuth who offered $250(?) for each bug readers discovered
>> > in his algorithms?
>> >
>> > So we all expect to make mistakes. Except apparently Richard Heathfield
>> > (unless his point was about knowingly shipping software with errors 
>> > that
>> > you don't tell the users about.)
>>
>> Of course we expect to make mistakes. We even expect to make mistakes
>> that we don't know how to fix (or can't fix within budget). But we don't
>> (or rather, shouldn't) /hide/ from the user those mistakes that we do
>> know about.
>>
>> For the USA release, it is sufficient to publish a note to the effect
>> that mixing Hebrew and English can cause problems (and to indicate what
>> kinds of problems those are).
>>
>> That /may/ even be sufficient for the Israel release (I don't know how
>> prevalent English is in Israeli culture).
>>
>> What is not sufficient is to ship the product /as if/ everything worked
>> fine if it's known that it doesn't. If customers are told before buying
>> that such-and-such a module doesn't work properly, and if they then
>> decide to buy it anyway, that's up to them. But if they are /not/ told,
>> then they have a case against the vendor.
>
> Exactly. I wonder why that is not the widely spread rule, as it is in all 
> other
> businesses.

Do you wonder why some software isn't accompanied by a little piece of paper 
that describes the rules and regulations wrt this software?  It seems to me 
that if something physical is passed, such as a CD, and the company is 
largish, such as Microsoft, there *is*  a piece of paper.  If not ( no CD), 
there is some virtual monkey business going on in the background that you 
haven't studied sufficiently.

My guess is that if your million dollar gizmo is destroyed because of some 
$300 software, you only get $300.  YMMV depending on where you live.  I 
think the phrase "limited warranty" is needed to dig deeper into this.

Thread

Continue with learning C Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 05:11 -0700
  Re: Continue with learning C "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 05:29 -0700
  Re: Continue with learning C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-15 15:01 +0100
  Re: Continue with learning C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-15 15:32 +0100
    Re: Continue with learning C Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 08:10 -0700
    Re: Continue with learning C luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-15 12:06 -0700
      Re: Continue with learning C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-15 21:38 +0100
        Re: Continue with learning C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-16 21:02 -0700
          Re: Continue with learning C "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-09-17 08:03 -0500
          Re: Continue with learning C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-17 22:38 +0100
            Re: Continue with learning C "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-17 18:14 -0400
              Re: Continue with learning C raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2016-09-18 10:47 +0000
              Re: Continue with learning C Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2016-09-19 01:25 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-19 20:51 +1200
                Re: Continue with learning C James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-19 09:49 -0400
                Re: Continue with learning C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-19 15:15 +0100
                Re: Continue with learning C Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2016-09-19 11:39 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-20 09:55 +0800
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 08:50 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-20 18:04 +0800
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 13:25 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-20 20:18 +0800
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 15:25 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-20 08:45 -0400
                Re: Continue with learning C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-20 22:05 +0800
                Re: Continue with learning C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-20 10:56 -0400
                Re: Continue with learning C Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-19 18:55 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2016-09-25 01:08 +0300
            Re: Continue with learning C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-17 17:08 -0700
              Re: Continue with learning C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-18 01:11 +0100
                Re: Continue with learning C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-17 21:32 -0400
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 16:27 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-18 16:08 -0400
                Re: Continue with learning C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 07:30 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-09-18 16:07 -0400
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 16:38 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-18 16:37 +0100
                Re: Continue with learning C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-18 23:54 +0800
                Re: Continue with learning C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 16:56 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-18 17:05 +0100
                Re: Continue with learning C "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-18 12:28 -0400
                Re: Continue with learning C Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2016-09-18 17:00 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2016-09-19 01:40 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-09-19 08:55 -0500
                Re: Continue with learning C "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-09-18 11:31 -0500
                Re: Continue with learning C Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-19 07:25 +1200
                Re: Continue with learning C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-18 20:36 +0100
                Re: Continue with learning C "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2016-09-18 15:45 -0400
                Re: Continue with learning C Rosario19 <Ros@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-19 18:58 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 09:55 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 10:12 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2016-09-18 13:11 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-18 21:54 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-18 15:58 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2016-09-19 07:09 +0100
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 10:04 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2016-09-19 10:38 +0100
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-19 13:29 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 08:04 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-20 09:33 +0800
                Re: Continue with learning C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-19 20:47 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 09:00 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-20 17:59 +0800
                Re: Continue with learning C Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2016-09-20 17:24 +0000
                Re: Continue with learning C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2016-09-20 08:57 +0200
                Re: Continue with learning C supercat@casperkitty.com - 2016-09-20 10:53 -0700
                Re: Continue with learning C Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2016-09-19 13:19 +0800
                Re: Continue with learning C Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2016-09-19 01:30 +0100
      Re: Continue with learning C Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2016-09-19 01:15 -0700
  Re: Continue with learning C Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@dqel.com> - 2016-09-15 12:38 -0700
  Re: Continue with learning C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 11:42 -0700
    Re: Continue with learning C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 12:40 -0700
      Re: Continue with learning C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 12:49 -0700
      Re: Continue with learning C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 14:47 -0700
        Re: Continue with learning C fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 14:59 -0700

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