Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm?

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From	Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm?
Date	Thu, 28 Nov 2019 16:54:27 -0800
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Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes:

> On 11/15/19 9:46 AM, James Kuyper wrote:
>
>> On 11/14/19 4:08 PM, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/14/2019 2:03 PM, Barry Schwarz wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>>> warning at all.  Some even put the definition of i inside the for
>>>> statement as in
>>>>      for (unsigned int i = 0; ...
>>>> to insure the scope is limited to the loop.  This will work even if
>>>> there is an i defined before the for statement.  The i in the for
>>>> statement hides the i defined previously but only for the duration of
>>>> the loop.
>>>
>>> Interesting.  Works in nested for..loops too:
>>>
>>>
>>>   int i = 100, j = 200;
>>>
>>>    for(int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
>>>      for(int j = 0; j < 3; j++) {
>>>        printf("(%d %d) ",i,j);
>>>      }		
>>>    }
>>>
>>>    printf("\n%d %d\n",i,j);
>>>
>>>
>>> (0 0) (0 1) (0 2) (1 0) (1 1) (1 2) (2 0) (2 1) (2 2)
>>> 100 200
>>>
>>> But... I see danger ahead.  I'll probably not use that technique.
>>
>> I'm curious:  what danger do you think you see?  This feature was
>> added specifically to reduce the danger of your loop variables
>> interacting with code outside the loop.  If you want your variables
>> to interact with code outside the loop, declare them outside the
>> loop, as has always been permitted - this feature does nothing to
>> interfere with the old ways of doing things.
>
> As I remember, at one stage in the development of this feature,
> the statement
>
> for(int i = 0; i < 3; i++){
> }
>
> was the equivalent of
>
> int i;
> for(i = 0; i < 3; i++){
> }
>
> i.e., the defined variable existed after the loop.  It was thought
> that since the definition wasn't within the braces, the scope
> shouldn't be limited to the braces.  I am fairly sure this even
> appeared in some of the draft standard documents.

To set the record straight, this was never true for C.  The draft
where declarations-in-for's first appeared limited the scope of
the declared variable(s) to the for statement (and its body), and
not further.

What you may have been thinking of was C++.  Before C++ was first
standardized, it did have for-declarations with the semantics you
describe.  It was defined that way in one of Stroustrup's books
(second edition, roughly 1995, IIRC).  This behavior was actually
part of the official language, and programs made use of it.  Last I
checked there are still gcc options -ffor-scope and -fno-for-scope
to allow getting the old semantics (and they apply only to C++).

> In working with this, it was decided that this caused too many
> issues, so they added a bit of complexity to the language by
> moving the effective scope of the block to include the control
> statement.

Here again this statement holds for C++ but not for C.  The original
C++ semantics (ie, in draft standards) was a bit messy.  The C
semantics did change between the original introduction and the next
draft, but has always been pretty clean, and was never of the
"moving scopes around" variety that the early C++ standards (or
drafts thereof) used.

Thus we see that James Kuyper's statement "This feature was added
specifically to reduce the danger of your loop variables interacting
with code outside the loop" isn't really right.  That is where the
feature ended up, but it is not where it started.

Thread

OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-12 15:55 -0500
  Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-12 21:20 +0000
    Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-12 23:28 -0500
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 10:52 +0100
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-13 10:16 -0500
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 16:53 +0100
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 11:18 +0000
  Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-12 23:30 +0000
    Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 05:12 +1300
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 16:34 +0000
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 10:07 +1300
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 22:25 +0000
            Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 12:02 +1300
              Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 23:27 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 19:06 +1300
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-15 10:45 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-15 13:28 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-15 12:58 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-15 15:39 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-15 15:04 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-15 12:19 -0500
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-15 09:46 -0800
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-15 18:59 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-16 11:59 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-16 09:02 +1300
              Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-15 11:17 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-11-15 21:38 +0000
    Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 11:44 -0500
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-14 18:11 +0000
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 13:33 -0500
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-15 01:49 +0000
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-14 10:38 -0800
    Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 12:56 -0500
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-14 13:50 -0500
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 14:42 -0500
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-14 15:25 -0500
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-14 11:03 -0800
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 16:08 -0500
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-15 11:30 +0100
            Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-15 11:17 +0000
              Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-15 17:35 -0500
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-15 17:39 -0500
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-15 23:19 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-15 18:53 -0500
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-15 19:08 -0500
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-16 01:30 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-16 07:39 -0500
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-16 07:37 -0500
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-15 09:46 -0500
            Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-15 12:38 -0500
              Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-15 23:07 +0000
              Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 16:54 -0800
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-28 20:17 -0500
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-29 06:08 -0800
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 20:45 +0100
    Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-14 10:10 -0800
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 20:19 +0100
    Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-12 23:57 -0500
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 10:34 +0100
    Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-13 23:57 -0500
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-13 23:00 -0800
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-11-14 07:53 +0000
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2019-11-14 02:34 -0800
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 10:01 +0100
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 11:27 +0000
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 12:46 +0100
            Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 12:01 +0000
              Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 14:05 +0100
  Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-12 18:34 -0800
    Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-12 19:01 -0800
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 17:08 +0100
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 17:06 +0000
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 19:11 +0000
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 05:15 +1300
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 18:13 +0000
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-14 20:16 +0100
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 20:03 +0000
            Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-15 04:51 +0100
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-14 10:15 -0800
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 20:52 +0100
      Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 10:57 +0100
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-13 23:23 +1300
        Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 11:53 +0000
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 14:02 +0100
            Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 13:40 +0000
              Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 17:01 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 16:28 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 22:49 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 22:38 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 23:06 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 10:10 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 10:42 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 12:53 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 12:28 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 14:21 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 14:28 +0000
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-14 15:38 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-14 13:37 +0100
                Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-14 13:38 +0100
          Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-13 05:21 -0800

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