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Re: Reference counting

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Keith Thompson wrote:
> 
> Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> writes:
> > Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:
> >> Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> writes:
> >>> Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> writes:
> >>>>> On 2011-06-14, Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> For hashing, is the object representation of a 'void *' guaranteed to be
> >>>>>> the same any time a 'void *' points to the same object?  Is it likely?
> >>>>>> (I think so.) :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The standard only says pointers are represented in an
> >>>>> implementation-defined manner. But as long as the pointer value doesn't
> >>>>> change, I doubt the representation will. On most implementations, a
> >>>>> pointer is really just a 32- or 64-bit unsigned number, indicating a
> >>>>> certain spot in virtual memory.
> >>>>
> >>>> Quibble: Pointer representation is unspecified, not
> >>>> implementation-defined.  [snip]
> >>>
> >>> How do you reconcile this assertion with 6.2.6.1p2?  Certainly
> >>> it looks like the representation of any pointer value stored in
> >>> an object would be (at least) implementation-defined.
> >>
> >> Quite easily: by failing to read it carefully enough.  8-)}
> >>
> >> But now that I have, I'm confused.  Here's what it says:
> >>
> >>   1 The representations of all types are unspecified except as
> >>     stated in this subclause.
> >>
> >>   2 Except for bit-fields, objects are composed of contiguous
> >>     sequences of one or more bytes, the number, order, and
> >>     encoding of which are either explicitly specified or
> >>     implementation-defined.
> >>
> >>   3 Values stored in unsigned bit-fields and objects of type unsigned
> >>     char shall be represented using a pure binary notation.
> >>
> >> As far as I can tell, *all* types have implementation-defined
> >> representations; the section says so for non bit-fields and for
> >> unsigned bit-fields, and I don't think there's enough wiggle room
> >> to say that signed bit-fields have unspecified representations.
> >>
> >> So why does paragraph 1 say "unspecified" rather than
> >> "implementation-defined"?   [snip]
> >
> > Here's a possible idea:  maybe paragraph 1 is talking about
> > representations generally (including, eg, registers), but
> > paragraph 2 is talking about representations specifically
> > only in objects.  So values of a type can be represented
> > outside of being stored in an object, but what those
> > representations might be is all "under the hood", with no
> > documentation required.  What do you think?  Does that make
> > sense?
> 
> My impression is that the idea of representation applies only to
> objects.  The representation of a value not stored in an object is
> irrelevant until and unless it's stored in an object.
> 
> I think your idea makes some sense, but I don't think it's what
> 6.2.6.1 is referring to.
> 
> I have no particular support for this.

Do you think that the value of (-1 & 3)
corresponds to the way that an implementation
represents negative integers?

Constants have object types.
In C89, the standard talks about the representation
of object types.
There's no mention of "object representation" in C89.
I think it was better that way.

-- 
pete

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Reference counting daknok <radekslupik@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 12:52 +0200
  Re: Reference counting Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-05 11:17 +0000
    Re: Reference counting Gene <gene.ressler@gmail.com> - 2011-06-06 20:07 -0700
      Multiple Inheritance (Was Re: Reference counting) Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-11 03:57 -0500
        Re: Multiple Inheritance (Was Re: Reference counting) Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-06-12 07:22 +0100
  Re: Reference counting China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 05:07 -0700
  Re: Reference counting "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-05 13:14 +0100
    Re: Reference counting daknok <daknok@example.com> - 2011-06-05 14:22 +0200
      Re: Reference counting "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-05 14:45 +0100
        Re: Reference counting daknok <daknok@example.com> - 2011-06-05 17:01 +0200
          Re: Reference counting Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-05 18:06 -0400
          Re: Reference counting Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-06-12 07:25 +0100
  Re: Reference counting daknok <daknok@example.com> - 2011-06-05 15:29 +0200
  Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 12:17 -0500
  Re: Reference counting cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-06-05 17:11 +0000
  Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-10 11:30 -0700
    Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-10 16:04 -0400
    Re: Reference counting James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-10 22:56 -0400
      Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-11 12:36 -0700
        Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-11 17:23 -0500
          Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-12 15:15 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-12 21:13 -0500
              Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-13 12:37 -0700
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-13 12:54 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 16:40 -0500
          Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 07:34 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 14:26 -0500
              Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 12:47 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 17:33 -0500
                Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 12:14 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 02:16 -0500
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-15 15:34 -0700
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-15 15:42 -0700
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 13:45 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 17:02 -0500
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 15:18 -0700
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 16:01 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 18:44 -0500
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 17:11 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 18:39 -0500
        Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-11 16:51 -0700
          Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-11 18:28 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-12 16:10 -0500
            Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 07:36 -0700
      Re: Reference counting Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-14 15:00 -0700
  Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-13 21:46 -0700
    Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 03:19 -0500
      Re: Reference counting Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-14 07:31 +0000
        Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 05:02 -0500
        Re: Reference counting Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-14 09:03 -0700
          Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-14 10:23 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 13:46 -0500
          Re: Reference counting Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-14 15:05 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-14 16:44 -0700
              Re: Reference counting Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-15 06:54 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-15 08:46 -0700
                Re: Reference counting pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-06-15 22:19 -0400
                Re: Reference counting James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-15 23:03 -0400
                Re: Reference counting Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-19 14:48 -0700
        Re: Reference counting Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-14 17:16 +0000
    Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-14 20:53 -0700
      Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 18:49 -0500
  Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-14 08:30 +0200
    Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-14 09:15 +0200
      Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 04:21 -0500
      Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-16 10:35 +0200
        Re: Reference counting Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-16 20:36 +1200
        Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-16 11:21 +0200
          Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-19 17:57 +0200
          Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-19 20:01 +0200
            Re: Reference counting Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-19 11:07 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-19 23:15 -0500
              Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-20 08:21 +0200
        Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 19:05 -0500
          Re: Reference counting Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-17 12:09 +1200
  Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-15 08:40 -0700
  Re: Reference counting "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-16 11:08 -0700
    Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 14:42 -0400

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