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Groups > comp.lang.c > #6089

Re: Reference counting

From Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Reference counting
Date 2011-06-14 16:44 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <lnr56w3rn5.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <65a066fe-3455-4bae-90ef-d966d5d3f513@h7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> <it7238$hbd$1@dont-email.me> <slrnive3iq.31t.angel+news@pearlgates.net> <ln1uyw5rjk.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <kfnpqmgf4rt.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu>

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Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> writes:
> Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:
>
>> Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> writes:
>>> On 2011-06-14, Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> For hashing, is the object representation of a 'void *' guaranteed to be 
>>>> the same any time a 'void *' points to the same object?  Is it likely? 
>>>> (I think so.) :)
>>>
>>> The standard only says pointers are represented in an
>>> implementation-defined manner. But as long as the pointer value doesn't
>>> change, I doubt the representation will. On most implementations, a
>>> pointer is really just a 32- or 64-bit unsigned number, indicating a
>>> certain spot in virtual memory.
>>
>> Quibble: Pointer representation is unspecified, not
>> implementation-defined.  [snip]
>
> How do you reconcile this assertion with 6.2.6.1p2?  Certainly
> it looks like the representation of any pointer value stored in
> an object would be (at least) implementation-defined.

Quite easily: by failing to read it carefully enough.  8-)}

But now that I have, I'm confused.  Here's what it says:

  1 The representations of all types are unspecified except as
    stated in this subclause.

  2 Except for bit-fields, objects are composed of contiguous
    sequences of one or more bytes, the number, order, and
    encoding of which are either explicitly specified or
    implementation-defined.

  3 Values stored in unsigned bit-fields and objects of type unsigned
    char shall be represented using a pure binary notation.

As far as I can tell, *all* types have implementation-defined
representations; the section says so for non bit-fields and for
unsigned bit-fields, and I don't think there's enough wiggle room
to say that signed bit-fields have unspecified representations.

So why does paragraph 1 say "unspecified" rather than
"implementation-defined"?  "(Unspecified" is a subset of
"implementation-defined", so it's not wrong, but it seems needlessly
unspecific.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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Thread

Reference counting daknok <radekslupik@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 12:52 +0200
  Re: Reference counting Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-05 11:17 +0000
    Re: Reference counting Gene <gene.ressler@gmail.com> - 2011-06-06 20:07 -0700
      Multiple Inheritance (Was Re: Reference counting) Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-11 03:57 -0500
        Re: Multiple Inheritance (Was Re: Reference counting) Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-06-12 07:22 +0100
  Re: Reference counting China Blue Angels <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-05 05:07 -0700
  Re: Reference counting "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-05 13:14 +0100
    Re: Reference counting daknok <daknok@example.com> - 2011-06-05 14:22 +0200
      Re: Reference counting "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2011-06-05 14:45 +0100
        Re: Reference counting daknok <daknok@example.com> - 2011-06-05 17:01 +0200
          Re: Reference counting Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-05 18:06 -0400
          Re: Reference counting Dr Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2011-06-12 07:25 +0100
  Re: Reference counting daknok <daknok@example.com> - 2011-06-05 15:29 +0200
  Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-05 12:17 -0500
  Re: Reference counting cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter) - 2011-06-05 17:11 +0000
  Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-10 11:30 -0700
    Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-10 16:04 -0400
    Re: Reference counting James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-10 22:56 -0400
      Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-11 12:36 -0700
        Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-11 17:23 -0500
          Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-12 15:15 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-12 21:13 -0500
              Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-13 12:37 -0700
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-13 12:54 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 16:40 -0500
          Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 07:34 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 14:26 -0500
              Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 12:47 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 17:33 -0500
                Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 12:14 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 02:16 -0500
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-15 15:34 -0700
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-15 15:42 -0700
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 13:45 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 17:02 -0500
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 15:18 -0700
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 16:01 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 18:44 -0500
                Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-16 17:11 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 18:39 -0500
        Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-11 16:51 -0700
          Re: Reference counting "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-06-11 18:28 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-12 16:10 -0500
            Re: Reference counting ImpalerCore <jadill33@gmail.com> - 2011-06-13 07:36 -0700
      Re: Reference counting Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-14 15:00 -0700
  Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-13 21:46 -0700
    Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 03:19 -0500
      Re: Reference counting Angel <angel+news@spamcop.net> - 2011-06-14 07:31 +0000
        Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 05:02 -0500
        Re: Reference counting Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-14 09:03 -0700
          Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-14 10:23 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 13:46 -0500
          Re: Reference counting Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-14 15:05 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-14 16:44 -0700
              Re: Reference counting Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-15 06:54 -0700
                Re: Reference counting Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-15 08:46 -0700
                Re: Reference counting pete <pfiland@mindspring.com> - 2011-06-15 22:19 -0400
                Re: Reference counting James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-06-15 23:03 -0400
                Re: Reference counting Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-06-19 14:48 -0700
        Re: Reference counting Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> - 2011-06-14 17:16 +0000
    Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-14 20:53 -0700
      Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 18:49 -0500
  Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-14 08:30 +0200
    Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-14 09:15 +0200
      Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-14 04:21 -0500
      Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-16 10:35 +0200
        Re: Reference counting Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-16 20:36 +1200
        Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-16 11:21 +0200
          Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-19 17:57 +0200
          Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-19 20:01 +0200
            Re: Reference counting Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-06-19 11:07 -0700
            Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-19 23:15 -0500
              Re: Reference counting "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-06-20 08:21 +0200
        Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 19:05 -0500
          Re: Reference counting Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-17 12:09 +1200
  Re: Reference counting luser- -droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-06-15 08:40 -0700
  Re: Reference counting "christian.bau" <christian.bau@cbau.wanadoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-16 11:08 -0700
    Re: Reference counting Shao Miller <sha0.miller@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 14:42 -0400

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