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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #121305 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Sam <sam@email-scan.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-12-27 21:51 -0500 |
| Last post | 2024-12-29 19:50 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 41 — 13 participants |
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Re: We have a new standard! Sam <sam@email-scan.com> - 2024-12-27 21:51 -0500
Re: We have a new standard! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 20:11 -0800
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-28 10:19 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-28 16:20 +0100
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-29 09:32 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-29 14:51 +0100
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-29 16:16 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-30 08:34 +0100
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-30 09:34 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-30 15:37 +0100
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-30 15:08 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2024-12-30 18:06 -0500
Re: We have a new standard! Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-01 17:55 +0200
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2025-01-01 16:05 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2024-12-30 00:12 +0200
Re: We have a new standard! Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-30 00:44 +0200
Re: We have a new standard! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-30 03:17 -0800
Re: We have a new standard! boltar@caprica.org - 2024-12-30 12:00 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-30 15:52 +0100
Re: We have a new standard! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-30 18:06 -0800
Re: We have a new standard! Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2024-12-30 22:26 -0500
Re: We have a new standard! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-30 03:14 -0800
Re: We have a new standard! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-30 16:05 +0100
Re: We have a new standard! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 16:02 -0800
Re: We have a new standard! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2024-12-30 17:58 -0800
Re: We have a new standard! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-31 10:54 +0100
Re: We have a new standard! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 13:40 -0800
Re: We have a new standard! Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-30 13:25 +0200
Re: We have a new standard! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2024-12-30 17:15 +0100
Re: We have a new standard! Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-04 21:40 +0200
Re: We have a new standard! Phillip <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2024-12-28 13:05 -0500
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-29 09:43 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! Sam <sam@email-scan.com> - 2024-12-29 08:50 -0500
Re: We have a new standard! wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 22:33 +0800
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-29 16:17 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 01:08 +0800
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-29 17:11 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-29 16:15 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! Sam <sam@email-scan.com> - 2024-12-29 11:57 -0500
Re: We have a new standard! Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-29 17:08 +0000
Re: We have a new standard! Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 19:50 +0200
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| From | Sam <sam@email-scan.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-27 21:51 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: We have a new standard! |
| Message-ID | <cone.1735354270.316807.177566.1000@ripper.email-scan.com> |
Stefan Ram writes: > According to one web site, C++23 (ISO/IEC 14882:2024) was released > October 19, 2024. > > (Sorry if it was mentioned here then, and I just did not notice!) Hip-hip-hooray! Finally, finally they addressed the long-standing criticism of C++ being too trivial and too simple, and a kids' language. At last, there's some meat on those bones. Watch out, Java! There's a new boss in town. Real programming languages' specifications are measured in pounds, and not a page count.
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-27 20:11 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <vkntp4$4rui$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121305 |
On 12/27/2024 6:51 PM, Sam wrote: > Stefan Ram writes: > >> According to one web site, C++23 (ISO/IEC 14882:2024) was released >> October 19, 2024. >> >> (Sorry if it was mentioned here then, and I just did not notice!) > > Hip-hip-hooray! Finally, finally they addressed the long-standing > criticism of C++ being too trivial and too simple, and a kids' language. The new BASIC? ;^) I detect sarcasm... ;^) > At last, there's some meat on those bones. Watch out, Java! There's a > new boss in town. Real programming languages' specifications are > measured in pounds, and not a page count. >
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-28 10:19 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vkojb7$96o6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121305 |
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 21:51:10 -0500 Sam <sam@email-scan.com> gabbled: >Stefan Ram writes: > >> According to one web site, C++23 (ISO/IEC 14882:2024) was released >> October 19, 2024. >> >> (Sorry if it was mentioned here then, and I just did not notice!) > >Hip-hip-hooray! Finally, finally they addressed the long-standing criticism >of C++ being too trivial and too simple, and a kids' language. At last, >there's some meat on those bones. Watch out, Java! There's a new boss in >town. Real programming languages' specifications are measured in pounds, >and not a page count. Watch out Java? Watch out Perl more like! The title of most write only language could soon change! Being serious, I haven't even checked whats new in it but going by C++ 2020 it'll be yet more syntactic soup to support features absolutely no one outside of ivory tower academic discussions asked for. It'll just add yet more complexity to compilers, hence more potential bugs and make the C++ learning curve even steeper meaning yet more new programmers abandon it - or don't even start - for languages such as Python.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-28 16:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vkp50p$ce10$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121308 |
On 28/12/2024 11:19, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: > On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 21:51:10 -0500 > Sam <sam@email-scan.com> gabbled: >> Stefan Ram writes: >> >>> According to one web site, C++23 (ISO/IEC 14882:2024) was released >>> October 19, 2024. >>> >>> (Sorry if it was mentioned here then, and I just did not notice!) >> >> Hip-hip-hooray! Finally, finally they addressed the long-standing >> criticism of C++ being too trivial and too simple, and a kids' >> language. At last, there's some meat on those bones. Watch out, Java! >> There's a new boss in town. Real programming languages' specifications >> are measured in pounds, and not a page count. > > Watch out Java? Watch out Perl more like! The title of most write only > language could soon change! > > Being serious, I haven't even checked whats new in it but going by C++ 2020 > it'll be yet more syntactic soup to support features absolutely no one > outside > of ivory tower academic discussions asked for. It'll just add yet > morecomplexity to compilers, hence more potential bugs and make the C++ > learning > curve even steeper meaning yet more new programmers abandon it - or don't > even start - for languages such as Python. > Ah, yes - the classic well-reasoned argument. Why would one ever want to /look/ at the new standard before condemning it? It's inevitable that most people won't have need of most of the new features - C++ is a big language, and has a big standard library, and few people use more than a fraction of it. But all the new features will be of some use to some people. (It's a lot like Python in that aspect.)
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-29 09:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vkr4ve$sksr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121309 |
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 16:20:57 +0100 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >On 28/12/2024 11:19, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: >> Being serious, I haven't even checked whats new in it but going by C++ 2020 >> it'll be yet more syntactic soup to support features absolutely no one >> outside >> of ivory tower academic discussions asked for. It'll just add yet >> morecomplexity to compilers, hence more potential bugs and make the C++ >> learning >> curve even steeper meaning yet more new programmers abandon it - or don't >> even start - for languages such as Python. >> > >Ah, yes - the classic well-reasoned argument. Why would one ever want >to /look/ at the new standard before condemning it? Ah yes, the same logic that has produced cars with ever more, harder to use complexity that no one wants. >It's inevitable that most people won't have need of most of the new For most read 99.9%. >features - C++ is a big language, and has a big standard library, and >few people use more than a fraction of it. But all the new features >will be of some use to some people. (It's a lot like Python in that >aspect.) For some read 0.01%. Is it worth it? No. Also you seem to have little understanding of human nature. Make the learning curve close to vertical for a language and no one will bother with it. I've worked with 20 something devs in the last few years. Not ONE of them bothered to learn C++, its all Python, Java (usually learnt at uni - even uni's don't bother with C++ now) or Web dev. Ask yourself why. At this rate when people such as myself retire in the 2030s C++ will become legacy like Cobol and no amount of bolting on ever more niche features will save it.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-29 14:51 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vkrk4l$10d4e$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121318 |
On 29/12/2024 10:32, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: > On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 16:20:57 +0100 > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >> On 28/12/2024 11:19, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: >>> Being serious, I haven't even checked whats new in it but going by >>> C++ 2020 >>> it'll be yet more syntactic soup to support features absolutely no >>> one outside >>> of ivory tower academic discussions asked for. It'll just add yet >>> morecomplexity to compilers, hence more potential bugs and make the >>> C++ learning >>> curve even steeper meaning yet more new programmers abandon it - or >>> don't >>> even start - for languages such as Python. >>> >> >> Ah, yes - the classic well-reasoned argument. Why would one ever want >> to /look/ at the new standard before condemning it? > > Ah yes, the same logic that has produced cars with ever more, harder to use > complexity that no one wants. No, not remotely. But then, you knew that before making what you mistakenly thought was a smart or witty reply. If you don't like the complexity of newer C++ standards, that's fine. If you don't think it is a good direction for the language, fair enough. You can choose a different language, or stick to an older standard, or make your own language, or get involved in the C++ standardisation processes and try to influence them. You can have an informed opinion about C++, and agree or disagree with the opinions of the committee members. But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to anyone. So go away, and read about C++23. Learn what is new or changed. /Then/ you can come back and tell us what you don't like about it - or perhaps you'll find some things that you /do/ like about it. Either way, you'll be at least vaguely qualified to express an opinion on it. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B23>
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-29 16:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vkrsl3$12f53$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121321 |
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 14:51:17 +0100 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you want >to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. That's no >more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to anyone. Ah ok , its the usual "anyone who disagrees with me POV is ignorant" position is it? Back under your bridge troll.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 08:34 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vktie8$1hdhg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121325 |
On 29/12/2024 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: > On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 14:51:17 +0100 > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >> But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you >> want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. >> That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to anyone. > > Ah ok , its the usual "anyone who disagrees with me POV is ignorant" > position > is it? > It's not a matter of agreement or disagreement. You know - by your own admission - /nothing/ about C++23. Your ignorance is not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact. I'm not disagreeing about your /opinions/ of C++23 - I am simply stating that any opinions you have, until you have learned at least a little about the new standard, are totally worthless. Maybe once you have gone away and learned a little, we can talk about the new features of C++23, and agree or disagree about particulars or general aspects of it. Until then, you might like to note that I haven't as yet offered any opinions about C++23 at all - so how could you possibly think I disagree with you?
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 09:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vktpfr$1iqih$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121334 |
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:34:32 +0100 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >On 29/12/2024 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: >> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 14:51:17 +0100 >> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >>> But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you >>> want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. >>> That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to anyone. >> >> Ah ok , its the usual "anyone who disagrees with me POV is ignorant" >> position >> is it? >> > >It's not a matter of agreement or disagreement. You know - by your own >admission - /nothing/ about C++23. Your ignorance is not a matter of >opinion but a matter of fact. I'm going by 2017 and 2020 adding little of value to the language. I very much doubt they've suddenly found some paradigm changing additions. >I'm not disagreeing about your /opinions/ of C++23 - I am simply stating >that any opinions you have, until you have learned at least a little >about the new standard, are totally worthless. So you think I've never browsed anything to do with 23? Thats a hell of an assumption.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 15:37 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vkub7p$1lt2f$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121335 |
On 30/12/2024 10:34, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: > On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:34:32 +0100 > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >> On 29/12/2024 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: >>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 14:51:17 +0100 >>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >>>> But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you >>>> want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. >>>> That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to anyone. >>> >>> Ah ok , its the usual "anyone who disagrees with me POV is ignorant" >>> position >>> is it? >>> >> >> It's not a matter of agreement or disagreement. You know - by your >> own admission - /nothing/ about C++23. Your ignorance is not a matter >> of opinion but a matter of fact. > > I'm going by 2017 and 2020 adding little of value to the language. I very > much doubt they've suddenly found some paradigm changing additions. > >> I'm not disagreeing about your /opinions/ of C++23 - I am simply >> stating that any opinions you have, until you have learned at least a >> little about the new standard, are totally worthless. > > So you think I've never browsed anything to do with 23? Thats a hell of an > assumption. > You wrote: "Being serious, I haven't even checked whats new in it..." followed by assumptions about C++23. The only assumption /I/ made was that you were telling the truth - was that unreasonable?
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| From | Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 15:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vkud0t$1m8k0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121342 |
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:37:45 +0100 David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled: >On 30/12/2024 10:34, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: >> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 08:34:32 +0100 >> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >>> On 29/12/2024 17:16, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote: >>>> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 14:51:17 +0100 >>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> gabbled: >>>>> But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you >>>>> want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. >>>>> That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to anyone. >>>> >>>> Ah ok , its the usual "anyone who disagrees with me POV is ignorant" >>>> position >>>> is it? >>>> >>> >>> It's not a matter of agreement or disagreement. You know - by your >>> own admission - /nothing/ about C++23. Your ignorance is not a matter >>> of opinion but a matter of fact. >> >> I'm going by 2017 and 2020 adding little of value to the language. I very >> much doubt they've suddenly found some paradigm changing additions. >> >>> I'm not disagreeing about your /opinions/ of C++23 - I am simply >>> stating that any opinions you have, until you have learned at least a >>> little about the new standard, are totally worthless. >> >> So you think I've never browsed anything to do with 23? Thats a hell of an >> assumption. >> > >You wrote: "Being serious, I haven't even checked whats new in it..." >followed by assumptions about C++23. The only assumption /I/ made was >that you were telling the truth - was that unreasonable? I'd skimmed the wiki entry, nothing in depth. It was enough. But hey, they've renamed puts() to println() so win! Not.
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| From | James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 18:06 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vkv91e$1r558$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121345 |
On 12/30/24 10:08, Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote: > On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:37:45 +0100 > David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wibbled: ... >> You wrote: "Being serious, I haven't even checked whats new in it..." >> followed by assumptions about C++23. The only assumption /I/ made was >> that you were telling the truth - was that unreasonable? > > I'd skimmed the wiki entry, nothing in depth. It was enough. But hey, they've > renamed puts() to println() so win! Not. So, David's assumption was unreasonable?
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| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 17:55 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <20250101175501.000031d9@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #121345 |
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:08:13 -0000 (UTC) Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote: > > I'd skimmed the wiki entry, nothing in depth. It was enough. But hey, > they've renamed puts() to println() so win! Not. > Congratulations. You are not an ordinary idiot, but quite extraordinary one. Not the best, but likely you belong to top 5%.
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| From | Muttley@dastardlyhq.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-01-01 16:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vl3p4h$2rgtg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121356 |
On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 17:55:01 +0200 Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> gabbled: >On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 15:08:13 -0000 (UTC) >Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org wrote: > >> >> I'd skimmed the wiki entry, nothing in depth. It was enough. But hey, >> they've renamed puts() to println() so win! Not. >> > >Congratulations. You are not an ordinary idiot, but quite extraordinary >one. Not the best, but likely you belong to top 5%. That your considered opinion is it aspie?
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| From | Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 00:12 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <vkshgh$1799g$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121321 |
On 29.12.2024 15:51, David Brown wrote: > You can have an informed opinion about C++, and agree or disagree with > the opinions of the committee members. > > But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you want > to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. That's no > more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to anyone. Thanks David, for standing against the trolls. It's a pity that personal freedoms are often interpreted as "my ignorant opinion has exactly the same worth as your expert knowledge". I'm all for personal freedoms, but my freedoms end where they might hurt other people, or the nature for that matter. Boasting ignorant jumble can easily do that.
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| From | Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 00:44 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <20241230004450.0000202d@yahoo.com> |
| In reply to | #121332 |
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 00:12:31 +0200 Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote: > On 29.12.2024 15:51, David Brown wrote: > > > You can have an informed opinion about C++, and agree or disagree > > with the opinions of the committee members. > > > > But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you > > want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. > > That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to > > anyone. > > Thanks David, for standing against the trolls. It's a pity that > personal freedoms are often interpreted as "my ignorant opinion has > exactly the same worth as your expert knowledge". > > I'm all for personal freedoms, but my freedoms end where they might > hurt other people, or the nature for that matter. Boasting ignorant > jumble can easily do that. > It seems that Muttley@dastardlyhq.com still didn't figure out why stating strong opinion about something that you not just didn't learn in depth, but didn't even look at casually is less than optimal.
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| From | Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 03:17 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <86seq5bete.fsf@linuxsc.com> |
| In reply to | #121333 |
Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes: > On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 00:12:31 +0200 > Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote: > >> On 29.12.2024 15:51, David Brown wrote: >> >>> You can have an informed opinion about C++, and agree or disagree >>> with the opinions of the committee members. >>> >>> But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you >>> want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. >>> That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to >>> anyone. >> >> Thanks David, for standing against the trolls. It's a pity that >> personal freedoms are often interpreted as "my ignorant opinion has >> exactly the same worth as your expert knowledge". >> >> I'm all for personal freedoms, but my freedoms end where they might >> hurt other people, or the nature for that matter. Boasting ignorant >> jumble can easily do that. > > It seems that Muttley@dastardlyhq.com still didn't figure out why > stating strong opinion about something that you not just didn't learn > in depth, but didn't even look at casually is less than optimal. For some time now I have simply stopped reading his comments. I don't know why anyone bothers with him for more than a handful of interactions.
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| From | boltar@caprica.org |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 12:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vku21r$1kbjn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121337 |
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 03:17:17 -0800 Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wibbled: >Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes: > >> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 00:12:31 +0200 >> Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote: >> >>> On 29.12.2024 15:51, David Brown wrote: >>> >>>> You can have an informed opinion about C++, and agree or disagree >>>> with the opinions of the committee members. >>>> >>>> But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you >>>> want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. >>>> That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to >>>> anyone. >>> >>> Thanks David, for standing against the trolls. It's a pity that >>> personal freedoms are often interpreted as "my ignorant opinion has >>> exactly the same worth as your expert knowledge". >>> >>> I'm all for personal freedoms, but my freedoms end where they might >>> hurt other people, or the nature for that matter. Boasting ignorant >>> jumble can easily do that. >> >> It seems that Muttley@dastardlyhq.com still didn't figure out why >> stating strong opinion about something that you not just didn't learn >> in depth, but didn't even look at casually is less than optimal. > >For some time now I have simply stopped reading his comments. >I don't know why anyone bothers with him for more than a handful >of interactions. The same could be said about you.
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| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 15:52 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vkuc2i$1lt2f$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #121339 |
On 30/12/2024 13:00, boltar@caprica.org wrote: > On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 03:17:17 -0800 > Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wibbled: >> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes: >> >>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 00:12:31 +0200 >>> Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote: >>> >>>> On 29.12.2024 15:51, David Brown wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can have an informed opinion about C++, and agree or disagree >>>>> with the opinions of the committee members. >>>>> >>>>> But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you >>>>> want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. >>>>> That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to >>>>> anyone. >>>> >>>> Thanks David, for standing against the trolls. It's a pity that >>>> personal freedoms are often interpreted as "my ignorant opinion has >>>> exactly the same worth as your expert knowledge". >>>> >>>> I'm all for personal freedoms, but my freedoms end where they might >>>> hurt other people, or the nature for that matter. Boasting ignorant >>>> jumble can easily do that. >>> >>> It seems that Muttley@dastardlyhq.com still didn't figure out why >>> stating strong opinion about something that you not just didn't learn >>> in depth, but didn't even look at casually is less than optimal. >> >> For some time now I have simply stopped reading his comments. >> I don't know why anyone bothers with him for more than a handful >> of interactions. > > The same could be said about you. > There are plenty of people here who have stopped reading posts by particular other people - or at least, specifically stopped reply to them. I think the group would be poorer if everyone refused to respond to someone they judge to be trolling, rude, or otherwise unpleasant in some way. Sometimes the replies might be of interest or use to others (I don't expect Muttley to stop giving uninformed opinions, but it is conceivable that some other posters will at least look at what's new in C++23 before telling us all how terrible it is). And of course sometimes even the worst trolls make good points or raise interesting questions. Tim never replies to my posts directly - though he occasionally indirectly shows signs of reading them. I believe I have at least some understanding of his reasons for ignoring me. (I am not a model poster by any means.) But I'd prefer it if he did as many others here try to do - reply to posts, not to posters.
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| From | Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-12-30 18:06 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <86jzbgbo70.fsf@linuxsc.com> |
| In reply to | #121339 |
boltar@caprica.org writes: > On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 03:17:17 -0800 > Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wibbled: > >> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes: >> >>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 00:12:31 +0200 >>> Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote: >>> >>>> On 29.12.2024 15:51, David Brown wrote: >>>> >>>>> You can have an informed opinion about C++, and agree or disagree >>>>> with the opinions of the committee members. >>>>> >>>>> But what you don't get to do - or at least, don't get to do if you >>>>> want to be viewed seriously - is spout an /uninformed/ opinion. >>>>> That's no more than mindless prejudice, and of no interest to >>>>> anyone. >>>> >>>> Thanks David, for standing against the trolls. It's a pity that >>>> personal freedoms are often interpreted as "my ignorant opinion has >>>> exactly the same worth as your expert knowledge". >>>> >>>> I'm all for personal freedoms, but my freedoms end where they might >>>> hurt other people, or the nature for that matter. Boasting ignorant >>>> jumble can easily do that. >>> >>> It seems that Muttley@dastardlyhq.com still didn't figure out why >>> stating strong opinion about something that you not just didn't learn >>> in depth, but didn't even look at casually is less than optimal. >> >> For some time now I have simply stopped reading his comments. >> I don't know why anyone bothers with him for more than a handful >> of interactions. > > The same could be said about you. I assume you mean that someone might have the same reaction to me as you imagine I have to Muttley. Note that I didn't say anything about Muttley; my comments were statements only about myself, not about anyone else.
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