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Re: Hello World in Russian

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On 1/29/22 17:50, Andrey Tarasevich wrote:
> On 1/29/2022 9:19 AM, James Kuyper wrote:
[Note: I accidentally posted that message to comp.lang.c rather than
comp.lang.c++, breaking the thread. Andrey's response was also on that
newsgroup]
>> On 1/29/22 07:01, David Brown wrote:
>> ...
>>> What I have learned from all this, is that "мир" ("mir") means "world"
>>> as well as "peace".  I find that an interesting linguistic titbit.
>>
>> Which means that if a Russian leader says "Я хочу мир.", it's ambiguous
>> whether he's saying he wants peace, or he wants the world.
> 
> Not really.
> 
> The subject for "хотеть" can be placed in Accusative or Genitive case, 
> depending on the nature of the subject. This is the case for many words 
> that can used to refer to a specific object or to a some sort of 
> non-quantifiable concept or resource ("peace", "water", "fish" etc.).
> 
> "I want peace" would normally require "мир" in Genitive case, which is 
> "мира": "Я хочу мира".
> 
> If you attempt to use "Я хочу мир" in this meaning, people would 
> normally understand you properly (given enough context), but you'll 
> still be perceived as an "untrained" speaker (e.g. child, uneducated, 
> non-native, etc.)
> 
> "I want [the] world" would take "мир" in Accusative case, which is still 
> "мир": "Я хочу мир".
> 
> And this later version still doesn't sound right, since literary norms 
> usually require an extra verb specifying/qualifying the desire. Not "Я 
> хочу мир", but "Я хочу владеть миром" ("I want to own the world") или "Я 
> хочу править миром" ("I want to rule the world") etc.

I studied Russian for two years, about four decades ago, and never made
any practical use of the language. My Russian skills are sufficiently
rusty that I actually used translate.google.com to double-check before
posting. It translated "I want peace." and "I want the world." the same
way, which is a hint why translate.google.com shouldn't be used for
serious translation efforts.
However, I vaguely remember asking my Russian teacher about this same
point when I first learned about this word, and I don't remember her
answer mentioning any of the details that you just mentioned. I think
she just said something about being able to figure out the intended
meaning from context.

> I think that "I want [the] world" has the same feel in English as well. 
> It doesn't sound quite right without extra specification.

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Hello World in Russian Joseph Hesse <joeh@gmail.com> - 2022-01-29 05:51 +0200
  Re: Hello World in Russian James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-01-28 23:27 -0500
    Re: Hello World in Russian Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-01-29 10:21 +0000
  Re: Hello World in Russian Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2022-01-28 22:42 -0800
    Re: Hello World in Russian David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-29 13:01 +0100
      Re: Hello World in Russian "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-01-29 14:12 +0100
        Re: Hello World in Russian David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-01-29 17:34 +0100
      Re: Hello World in Russian James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-01-30 14:17 -0500
        Re: Hello World in Russian Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2022-01-30 20:17 -0800
  Re: Hello World in Russian "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-01-29 11:48 +0100
    Re: Hello World in Russian Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-01-29 17:39 +0200
      Re: Hello World in Russian "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-01-30 09:18 +0100
        Re: Hello World in Russian Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-01-30 12:12 +0000
          Re: Hello World in Russian "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-01-30 14:02 +0100
            Re: Hello World in Russian Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-01-30 14:45 +0000
              Re: Hello World in Russian "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-01-30 21:53 +0100
                Re: Hello World in Russian Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-01-30 21:00 +0000
            Re: Hello World in Russian James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2022-01-30 14:02 -0500
          Re: Hello World in Russian Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-01-31 10:23 +0000
            Re: Hello World in Russian scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-01-31 16:11 +0000
              Re: Hello World in Russian Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-01-31 16:36 +0000
              Re: Hello World in Russian Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-01-31 20:20 +0200
            Re: Hello World in Russian Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-01-31 16:12 +0000
              Re: Hello World in Russian Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2022-01-31 16:39 +0000
                Re: Hello World in Russian Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-01-31 23:47 +0000
        Re: Hello World in Russian Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-01-31 16:45 +0100
        Re: Hello World in Russian Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2022-01-31 10:10 -0800
          Re: Hello World in Russian "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2022-01-31 19:25 +0100
      Re: Hello World in Russian Marcel Mueller <news.5.maazl@spamgourmet.org> - 2022-01-30 12:09 +0100
        Re: Hello World in Russian Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-01-30 14:26 +0200
          Re: Hello World in Russian Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-01-30 08:59 -0500
            Re: Hello World in Russian Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2022-01-30 18:21 +0200
              Re: Hello World in Russian Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2022-01-30 12:56 -0500
                Re: Hello World in Russian Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-02-07 21:05 +0000

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