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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #122707

Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching."

From Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching."
Date 2025-09-07 11:16 +0300
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <20250907111644.00001529@yahoo.com> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <109bqbd$1n9r1$1@dont-email.me> <109cct9$1s3bl$1@dont-email.me> <109dm6o$25tri$1@dont-email.me> <K9CuQ.745595$%RW3.134237@fx14.iad> <109etdk$2fsnb$1@dont-email.me>

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On Fri, 5 Sep 2025 16:51:32 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:

> On 05/09/2025 16:08, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:  
> >> On 04.09.2025 17:57, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:  
> >>> On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 12:40:37 +0200
> >>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> gabbled:  
> >>>> On 04.09.2025 10:36, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:  
> >>>>> I'd love to hear his opinion of the designed-by-committee
> >>>>> syntatic horror that is modern C++.  
> >>>>
> >>>> You are probably speaking about the newer C++ standards, and also
> >>>> not about the "C" contribution to the "syntactic horror". Right?
> >>>>  
> >>>
> >>> C's syntax might not be the best, but its relatively simple. C++
> >>> syntax is a dogs dinner and gets worse everytime the steering
> >>> committee farts out a new version every 3 years with increasingly
> >>> niche and obscure functionality. Some C++ code now is virtually
> >>> unparsable by the human eye and a lot of the new crap are meta
> >>> keywords that are compiler directives or hints rather than code
> >>> that actually does something. eg:
> >>>
> >>> swappable
> >>> swappable_with 	
> >>> destructible 	
> >>> constructible_from 	
> >>> default_initializable
> >>>  
> >>
> >> Thanks for clarifying. - I stopped my professional use of C++ with
> >> this millennium. The last standard that came to my attention was
> >> something like "C++0x/C++11" (IIRC, with move semantics, and some
> >> such). While I understand the motivation for introduction of such
> >> things I already found the syntax, the implications on readability,
> >> and the complexity a problem back then  
> > 
> > Nobody is required to actually use all that cruft.  It is still
> > possible to write C with classes using even the most modern C++
> > suite.  
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> Much of those sorts of things are useful for writing high-performance 
> general purpose containers and other such flexible libraries. 

Disagreed.
The syntactic innovations that cause "modern C++" to look as different
language from both original "C with classes" and from following "C with
classes and templates" are:
Major:
1. Lambda expressions 
2. Uniform initialization
3. Range-based for loop
4. Attributes
Minor:
1. New meaning of auto.

All of those were introduced in C++11.

More recent additions with syntax that looks alien are:
1. Concepts 
2. Three-way comparison
Happily, those are more specialized and as such less pervasive.


> For
> most user code, you don't need more than a fraction of what C++
> provides (but /which/ fraction will depend on the user).
> 

Statements like that apply to just about any language or framework.
Which makes them useless.

comp.lang.c removed

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"Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-01 23:39 -0500
  Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-02 20:34 -0500
  Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Pierre <null@void.net> - 2025-09-03 22:20 +0000
    Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-09-04 02:10 +0200
      Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-04 00:12 +0000
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-09-04 02:30 +0000
          Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jaworski1978@adres.pl> - 2025-09-04 18:33 +0200
            Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-05 00:36 +0300
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2025-09-07 17:50 +0000
          Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2025-09-08 09:13 +0300
            Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 00:20 -0700
            Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 08:43 +0000
              Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-09-09 21:50 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-09 22:38 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-09-10 18:20 +0000
      Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." boltar@caprica.universe - 2025-09-04 08:36 +0000
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-04 12:40 +0200
          Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." boltar@caprica.universe - 2025-09-04 15:57 +0000
            Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-05 05:42 +0200
              Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-05 16:51 +0200
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." boltar@caprica.universe - 2025-09-05 15:17 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 00:41 +0800
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-06 00:41 +0800
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-07 11:16 +0300
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-07 12:08 +0200
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-07 22:16 +0800
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." boltar@caprica.universe - 2025-09-07 14:42 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-07 20:05 +0200
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-07 15:30 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." boltar@caprica.universe - 2025-09-07 16:00 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-09-09 21:50 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-05 13:58 -0500
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-06 01:14 +0200
              Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-09-05 17:34 -0400
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2025-09-05 21:55 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-06 01:39 +0200
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-06 17:46 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2025-09-06 18:38 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 08:41 +0000
                Re: “Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching.” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 08:40 +0000
                Re: “Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching.” Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-09-10 01:21 -0600
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-09-04 23:40 +0200
      Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Mario Rosell <usenet@mariorosell.es> - 2026-04-17 20:25 +0000
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-19 00:10 +0000
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 03:51 +0800
    Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 08:36 +0000
      Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 17:01 -0500
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 22:43 +0000
          Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 17:57 -0500
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-09 14:45 +0000

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