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Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching."

From Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching."
Date 2025-09-05 05:42 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <109dm6o$25tri$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <UyudnTbAWO3dIiX1nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> <109aldv$1ffq9$1@raubtier-asyl.eternal-september.org> <109bj2l$1lgqu$1@dont-email.me> <109bqbd$1n9r1$1@dont-email.me> <109cct9$1s3bl$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 04.09.2025 17:57, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 12:40:37 +0200
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> gabbled:
>> On 04.09.2025 10:36, boltar@caprica.universe wrote:
>>> I'd love to hear his opinion of the designed-by-committee syntatic
>>> horror that is modern C++.
>>
>> You are probably speaking about the newer C++ standards, and also
>> not about the "C" contribution to the "syntactic horror". Right?
> 
> C's syntax might not be the best, but its relatively simple. C++ syntax is
> a dogs dinner and gets worse everytime the steering committee farts out a 
> new version every 3 years with increasingly niche and obscure functionality.
> Some C++ code now is virtually unparsable by the human eye and a lot of the
> new crap are meta keywords that are compiler directives or hints rather than 
> code that actually does something. eg:
> 
> swappable
> swappable_with 	
> destructible 	
> constructible_from 	
> default_initializable
> 

Thanks for clarifying. - I stopped my professional use of C++ with
this millennium. The last standard that came to my attention was
something like "C++0x/C++11" (IIRC, with move semantics, and some
such). While I understand the motivation for introduction of such
things I already found the syntax, the implications on readability,
and the complexity a problem back then. I can think that this state
of language may repel at least the younger programmer's generation
and foster them turning to other (syntactical cleaner and simpler)
languages. Programmers that grew up with "C" and C++ might be more
stressable since they need only accommodate to the language deltas.

WRT C's contribution I agree that it's comparable simple, but still
contributes not insignificantly to the "syntax horror". It might be
more an issue for folks who are also used to non-"C"-like languages.

Janis

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"Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-01 23:39 -0500
  Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-02 20:34 -0500
    Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Pierre <null@void.net> - 2025-09-04 00:04 +0000
  Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Pierre <null@void.net> - 2025-09-03 22:20 +0000
    Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-09-04 02:10 +0200
      Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-04 00:12 +0000
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-09-04 02:30 +0000
          Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jaworski1978@adres.pl> - 2025-09-04 18:33 +0200
            Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-05 00:36 +0300
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> - 2025-09-07 17:50 +0000
          Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2025-09-08 09:13 +0300
            Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 00:20 -0700
            Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 08:43 +0000
              Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-09-09 21:50 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-09 22:38 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-09-10 18:20 +0000
      Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." boltar@caprica.universe - 2025-09-04 08:36 +0000
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-04 12:40 +0200
          Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." boltar@caprica.universe - 2025-09-04 15:57 +0000
            Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-05 05:42 +0200
              Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-05 14:08 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2025-09-05 16:51 +0200
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." boltar@caprica.universe - 2025-09-05 15:17 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-05 13:58 -0500
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-06 01:14 +0200
              Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-09-05 17:34 -0400
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2025-09-05 21:55 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2025-09-06 01:39 +0200
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-06 17:46 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2025-09-06 18:38 +0000
                Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 08:41 +0000
                Re: “Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching.” Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 08:40 +0000
                Re: “Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching.” Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-09-10 01:21 -0600
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-09-04 23:40 +0200
      Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Mario Rosell <usenet@mariorosell.es> - 2026-04-17 20:25 +0000
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-19 00:10 +0000
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 03:51 +0800
    Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 08:36 +0000
      Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 17:01 -0500
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-08 22:43 +0000
          Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2025-09-08 17:57 -0500
        Re: "Brian Kernigan speaks. 83 and still teaching." scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-09-09 14:45 +0000

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