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Cutting panels

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  Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 02:47 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> - 2013-07-21 08:05 -0500
      Re: Cutting panels Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-07-21 10:38 -0400
        Re: Cutting panels "Carl Ijames" <carl.ijames@nonono.verizon.net> - 2013-07-21 12:36 -0400
          Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 09:48 -0700
            Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 13:29 -0700
              Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 14:10 -0700
                Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 16:23 -0700
            Re: Cutting panels Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 21:04 +0000
              Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 15:07 -0700
                Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 16:35 -0700
                  Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 17:11 -0700
                    Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 16:27 -0700
                      Re: Cutting panels Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-23 21:50 -0500
                        Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 21:24 -0700
                      Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-24 09:09 +0000
                        Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-24 16:02 -0700
            Re: Cutting panels hamilton <hamilton@nothere.com> - 2013-07-21 16:52 -0600
              Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 17:13 -0700
          Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 12:35 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2013-07-21 09:54 -0500
      Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 09:32 -0700
        Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 13:36 -0700
          Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 14:04 -0700
      Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 13:14 -0700
        Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 13:26 -0700
          Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-21 14:06 -0700
            Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 16:08 -0700
              Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Rich Webb <webb.ra@example.net> - 2013-07-21 19:42 -0400
                Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 21:45 -0700
              Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-22 07:51 +0000
              Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-07-23 05:57 -0700
                Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 14:46 -0700
                  Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Lancaster <don@tinaja.com> - 2013-07-23 16:41 -0700
                  Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-07-23 17:21 -0700
                  Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-24 09:26 +0000
                    Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-25 12:11 -0700
                      Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-25 16:04 -0400
                        Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-25 13:03 -0700
            Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 13:40 +0000
              Re: Cutting panels [solved?] Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-23 07:38 -0700
        Re: Cutting panels [solved?]/summary Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-29 15:18 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels andrews@sdf.lonestar.org - 2013-07-21 12:45 -0700
      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 19:17 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-21 19:45 -0400
      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 17:07 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels Peter Bennett <peterbb@somewhere.invalid> - 2013-07-21 16:57 -0700
      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 20:58 -0700
        Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-21 21:02 -0700
        Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-22 09:20 -0700
          Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 12:15 -0700
            Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-22 16:17 -0700
              Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 18:52 -0700
                Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 14:00 +0000
                  Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 15:13 -0700
                Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-23 07:09 -0700
                  Re: Cutting panels Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> - 2013-07-23 10:03 -0700
                    Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 21:59 -0700
                  Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 15:54 -0700
                    Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-24 13:09 -0700
                      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-24 15:51 -0700
                        Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-26 09:13 -0700
                          Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-26 11:35 -0700
                            Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-26 12:06 -0700
                              Re: Cutting panels Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-26 19:44 +0000
                                Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-26 22:21 -0700
                                  Re: Cutting panels Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-27 08:12 +0000
                              Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-26 13:42 -0700
                                Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-26 18:50 -0700
                                  Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-26 22:49 -0700
                                    Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-27 00:53 -0700
                                      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-27 10:16 -0700
                            Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-26 23:52 -0700
                              Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-27 17:36 -0700
                                Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-28 09:22 -0700
                                  Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-28 12:31 -0700
                                    Re: Cutting panels Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-07-28 13:48 -0700
                                    Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-28 14:20 -0700
                                      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-28 16:35 -0700
                                        Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-28 17:39 -0700
                                          Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-28 19:38 -0700
                                            Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-29 11:15 -0700
                                              Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-29 16:30 -0700
                                                Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-29 17:38 -0700
                                                  Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-29 21:45 -0700
                                                    Re: Cutting panels Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-07-30 12:20 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2013-07-21 21:38 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-22 00:39 -0500
      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 01:39 -0700
        Re: Cutting panels Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-22 19:09 -0500
          Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 20:10 -0700
            Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 14:07 +0000
    Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-22 18:33 +0100
      Re: Cutting panels Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-22 13:44 -0400
      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-22 19:00 -0700
        Re: Cutting panels Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2013-07-23 10:09 +0000
        Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-23 11:45 +0100
          Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-23 13:46 +0100
            Re: Cutting panels 0bama <0B@nocontrast.org> - 2013-07-23 13:06 +0000
              Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-23 22:19 +0100
                Re: Cutting panels 0bama <0B@nocontrast.org> - 2013-07-24 08:05 +0000
          Re: Cutting panels Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-23 10:07 -0400
            Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-25 01:26 -0700
      Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 14:18 +0000
        Re: Cutting panels Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> - 2013-07-23 11:38 -0400
          Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-23 22:32 +0100
            Re: Cutting panels Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> - 2013-07-23 21:37 +0000
        Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 16:16 -0700
          Re: Cutting panels Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2013-07-24 10:37 +0100
            Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-25 01:27 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels Gonadicus <gonadicus@no_spam.com> - 2013-07-23 12:46 +0800
    Re: Cutting panels sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2013-07-23 04:58 -0700
      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 16:13 -0700
    Re: Cutting panels Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-07-23 13:25 +0000
      Re: Cutting panels Don Y <this@isnotme.com> - 2013-07-23 21:42 -0700

Page 1 of 6  [1] 2 3 4 5 6  Next page →

#12586 — Cutting panels

Hi,

I need to fabricate a "patch panel" for a network
distribution point.  Most COTS panels are fabricated
in multiples of 12 or 24.

E.g., 1x12, 1x24 (as 12+12), 4x24, etc.

Graphically, something like:

1x12 XXXXXXXXXXXX

1x24 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

4x24 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
      XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
      XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX
      XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Each 'X' being an 8P8C RJ45S connector.

Typically, these "connector assemblies" are fastened
to the rear of an aluminum plate while the connectors
themselves protrude through holes in that plate
(actually, since the connectors typically abut each other,
the holes are really long *slots*)

[Sorry if all this is obvious -- if you've seen one such
panel, you'd understand what I mean]

In my particular case (1-off), I need to fabricate two
"3x12" panels:

XXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXX

My problem is cutting these long slots in some material
(e.g., aluminum) in a manner that doesn't look amateurish.
[I suspect these slots are punched in commercial offerings
so they are nice and square, etc.]

You *know* aluminum with a file is going to look like
"aluminum with a file"  :<  I just can't imagine keeping
nice hard, straight edges going that route!

So, I'm exploring other fabrication options.  E.g., perhaps
replace the aluminum with lexan?  (though I'm not sure that
will be any easier to machine -- "hot knife"?)

[I have a friend with several wire EDM's but can't bring myself
to ask for that big of a favor!  :-/ ]

Currently, I figure the easiest solution is to find a couple of
4x24 panels and cut them each in "half" (more like 55/45%]
discarding the undersized "halves".

Is there some other trick I can explore?  Anything *strong* that
can be "molded"/poured?  (the panels have to support a fair bit
of force as things are plugged/unplugged "carelessly")

Thanks!
--don

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#12587

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 02:47:35 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I need to fabricate a "patch panel" for a network
>distribution point. 
.
.
.

>Thanks!
>--don

---
If you have a technical sheet metal shop in your area (not the roofing
kind) that may be the way to go.


-- 
JF

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#12589

John Fields wrote:
> Don Y  wrote:

>>I need to fabricate a "patch panel" for a network
>>distribution point. 

>If you have a technical sheet metal shop in your area (not the roofing
>kind) that may be the way to go.

Search for "custom panel laser cut metal"
--
Roberto Waltman

[ Please reply to the group,
  return address is invalid ]

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#12593

For just one, find someone with a manual mill and have the slots milled. 
Maybe post on rec.crafts.metalworking and tell where you are and maybe 
someone will volunteer.  Or find a machine shop in your area.  Laser 
cutting, punching, or cnc milling will all cost twice as much because of the 
set up and programming involved.  If you want five or ten or more, then that 
gets spread out and doesn't matter much, but for one the overhead is a 
killer.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

"Roberto Waltman"  wrote in message 
news:p9snu85ltigm144s0hfc48s3aagqcguftd@4ax.com...

John Fields wrote:
> Don Y  wrote:

>>I need to fabricate a "patch panel" for a network
>>distribution point.

>If you have a technical sheet metal shop in your area (not the roofing
>kind) that may be the way to go.

Search for "custom panel laser cut metal"
--
Roberto Waltman

[ Please reply to the group,
  return address is invalid ] 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#12594

Carl Ijames wrote:
> For just one, find someone with a manual mill and have the slots milled. 
> Maybe post on rec.crafts.metalworking and tell where you are and maybe 
> someone will volunteer.  Or find a machine shop in your area.  Laser 
> cutting, punching, or cnc milling will all cost twice as much because of the 
> set up and programming involved.  If you want five or ten or more, then that 
> gets spread out and doesn't matter much, but for one the overhead is a 
> killer.
> 

Or use the situation as the perfect excuse to get one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html

It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
in a year :-)

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#12601

Hi Joerg,

[Are you threatened by fires?]

On 7/21/2013 9:48 AM, Joerg wrote:

> Or use the situation as the perfect excuse to get one of these:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html

Then you've got to find a place to *store* the damn thing!  :<
(I've been procrastinating buying a tile/wet saw for exactly this
reason)

> It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
> in a year :-)

You need to find yourself a less-expensive model!!  ;-)

[I now have *three* pair of shoes and it has left me stressed to
the max!  Never can find the pair I want to wear...  <frown> ]

--don

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#12606

Don Y wrote:
> Hi Joerg,
> 
> [Are you threatened by fires?]
> 

Not yet. We live 35mi east of Sacramento.

[...]


>> It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
>> in a year :-)
> 
> You need to find yourself a less-expensive model!!  ;-)
> 
> [I now have *three* pair of shoes and it has left me stressed to
> the max!  Never can find the pair I want to wear...  <frown> ]
> 

I wear down at least one pair/year, sometimes two. My car mileage is
around 2000mi/year, my hoofing mileage in the same ballpark. Yet the
cost for shoes for myself is easily $100/year while the pro-rated car
tire expenditures are less than half that. Day and night quality
difference. It's so not fair.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#12679

Hi Joerg,

On 7/21/2013 2:10 PM, Joerg wrote:

>>> It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
>>> in a year :-)
>>
>> You need to find yourself a less-expensive model!!  ;-)
>>
>> [I now have *three* pair of shoes and it has left me stressed to
>> the max!  Never can find the pair I want to wear...  <frown> ]
>
> I wear down at least one pair/year, sometimes two. My car mileage is
> around 2000mi/year, my hoofing mileage in the same ballpark. Yet the
> cost for shoes for myself is easily $100/year while the pro-rated car
> tire expenditures are less than half that. Day and night quality
> difference. It's so not fair.

I don't drive or walk as far -- though the two distances tend to
track pretty well (about 1500mi in each case).  What I find more
annoying is how relatively *easy* it is to pick out a "decent" set
of tires yet how incredibly frustrating it is to find shoes that
you are comfortable (briskly) walking 30 miles weekly!

[And, you only realize you bought the *wrong* pair AFTER you've
been walking in them for a few days:  "Maybe I just need to break
them in?"  :< ]

I've told myself that the next time I find a pair that I truly
like, I will buy *several* pairs and store them!  (I get a lot
of wear out of a pair of shoes -- so much that the manufacturer
has long since stopped making any model that I've adopted!)

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#12603

On 2013-07-21, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Carl Ijames wrote:
>> For just one, find someone with a manual mill and have the slots milled. 
>> Maybe post on rec.crafts.metalworking and tell where you are and maybe 
>> someone will volunteer.  Or find a machine shop in your area.  Laser 
>> cutting, punching, or cnc milling will all cost twice as much because of the 
>> set up and programming involved.  If you want five or ten or more, then that 
>> gets spread out and doesn't matter much, but for one the overhead is a 
>> killer.
>> 
>
> Or use the situation as the perfect excuse to get one of these:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html
>
> It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
> in a year :-)

And it's from Harbor Freight, so you know it's a well-designed,
high-quality piece of gear.  :)

-- 
Grant

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#12607

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2013-07-21, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Carl Ijames wrote:
>>> For just one, find someone with a manual mill and have the slots milled. 
>>> Maybe post on rec.crafts.metalworking and tell where you are and maybe 
>>> someone will volunteer.  Or find a machine shop in your area.  Laser 
>>> cutting, punching, or cnc milling will all cost twice as much because of the 
>>> set up and programming involved.  If you want five or ten or more, then that 
>>> gets spread out and doesn't matter much, but for one the overhead is a 
>>> killer.
>>>
>> Or use the situation as the perfect excuse to get one of these:
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html
>>
>> It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
>> in a year :-)
> 
> And it's from Harbor Freight, so you know it's a well-designed,
> high-quality piece of gear.  :)
> 

This was under the assumption of occasional use, not industrial 24/7
use. So far Harborfreight stuff has been good to me.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#12613

Hi Joerg,

On 7/21/2013 3:07 PM, Joerg wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:

>>> It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
>>> in a year :-)
>>
>> And it's from Harbor Freight, so you know it's a well-designed,
>> high-quality piece of gear.  :)
>
> This was under the assumption of occasional use, not industrial 24/7
> use. So far Harborfreight stuff has been good to me.

I think HF is "OK" -- if your expectations are "suitably adjusted".
<grin>

A friend has a hammer drill and set of bits from HF that I have used
several times with great success:
- holes in the slab to support new walls
- holes in the wall/fence surrounding the property to support pipes
- holes through the concrete block to get wires in/out of the house

[Actually, as of an hour ago, I appear to have inherited this toy!
Yay!  If it was 100 degrees cooler, I might think it was Christmas!!]

Damn thing makes these task almost enjoyable!  Really cool to be
able to drill a 1" hole through concrete without breaking a sweat!

OTOH, I certainly wouldn't want to depend on it if that was the
essence of my *livelihood*!

Likewise, I need a tile/wet saw and a drywall lift.  I am leary of
HF as the quality issue *can* have repercussions in each of these
scenarios.

E.g., if you have to "fight" the saw to get it to do the job, you
are more likely to end up with unacceptable results.  (tile tends
to be located in highly visible locations!)  And, if the drywall
lift opts to *slip* under load, you end up with a broken back!

<frown>

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#12618

Don Y wrote:
> Hi Joerg,
> 
> On 7/21/2013 3:07 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> Grant Edwards wrote:
> 
>>>> It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
>>>> in a year :-)
>>>
>>> And it's from Harbor Freight, so you know it's a well-designed,
>>> high-quality piece of gear.  :)
>>
>> This was under the assumption of occasional use, not industrial 24/7
>> use. So far Harborfreight stuff has been good to me.
> 
> I think HF is "OK" -- if your expectations are "suitably adjusted".
> <grin>
> 
> A friend has a hammer drill and set of bits from HF that I have used
> several times with great success:
> - holes in the slab to support new walls
> - holes in the wall/fence surrounding the property to support pipes
> - holes through the concrete block to get wires in/out of the house
> 
> [Actually, as of an hour ago, I appear to have inherited this toy!
> Yay!  If it was 100 degrees cooler, I might think it was Christmas!!]
> 
> Damn thing makes these task almost enjoyable!  Really cool to be
> able to drill a 1" hole through concrete without breaking a sweat!
> 
> OTOH, I certainly wouldn't want to depend on it if that was the
> essence of my *livelihood*!
> 

Well, at those prices you could have one or two spares on the truck. But
for serious hammer drilling I've got a Bosch Bulldog. That thing is next
to indestructable.


> Likewise, I need a tile/wet saw and a drywall lift.  I am leary of
> HF as the quality issue *can* have repercussions in each of these
> scenarios.
> 
> E.g., if you have to "fight" the saw to get it to do the job, you
> are more likely to end up with unacceptable results.  (tile tends
> to be located in highly visible locations!)  And, if the drywall
> lift opts to *slip* under load, you end up with a broken back!
> 

I bought an $88 wet tile saw from Home Depot, then a professional-grade
"Mad Dog" blade to replace the cheapo blade that came with it (that's
key), and it served me well for almost 1000 sqft of quite complicated
tile laying. We have a Frank Lloyd Wright style house where hardly any
wall is right-angle.

It was hot, and sometimes I'd just let it run, stand in front of it and
let it rain on me. Poor man's evaporative cooling.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#12680

Hi Joerg,

On 7/21/2013 5:11 PM, Joerg wrote:
> Don Y wrote:

>> Likewise, I need a tile/wet saw and a drywall lift.  I am leary of
>> HF as the quality issue *can* have repercussions in each of these
>> scenarios.
>>
>> E.g., if you have to "fight" the saw to get it to do the job, you
>> are more likely to end up with unacceptable results.  (tile tends
>> to be located in highly visible locations!)  And, if the drywall
>> lift opts to *slip* under load, you end up with a broken back!
>
> I bought an $88 wet tile saw from Home Depot, then a professional-grade
> "Mad Dog" blade to replace the cheapo blade that came with it (that's
> key), and it served me well for almost 1000 sqft of quite complicated
> tile laying. We have a Frank Lloyd Wright style house where hardly any
> wall is right-angle.
>
> It was hot, and sometimes I'd just let it run, stand in front of it and
> let it rain on me. Poor man's evaporative cooling.

We've chosen to lay our tile "diagonally".  Looks nicer (have purchased
the tile and examined the layout on a CAD rendering I made of the
floorplan) than "square".  But, I've been told this requires more
cutting and more waste (doesn't seem like this should be the case
but I will take the word of the folks who have done this for a living).

I guess there is *no* tile that I will be able to set "against a
wall" that won't need to be trimmed.  :-(  Plus, there's the
"drop" into the sunken living room that will only use fractional
tiles...

<shrug>  At a couple of bucks per square foot (to install), I
figure I can afford to buy a decent saw and sell it when I'm
done (for dimes on the dollar).

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#12683

On Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:27:37 -0700, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

>Hi Joerg,
>
>On 7/21/2013 5:11 PM, Joerg wrote:
>> Don Y wrote:
>
>>> Likewise, I need a tile/wet saw and a drywall lift.  I am leary of
>>> HF as the quality issue *can* have repercussions in each of these
>>> scenarios.
>>>
>>> E.g., if you have to "fight" the saw to get it to do the job, you
>>> are more likely to end up with unacceptable results.  (tile tends
>>> to be located in highly visible locations!)  And, if the drywall
>>> lift opts to *slip* under load, you end up with a broken back!
>>
>> I bought an $88 wet tile saw from Home Depot, then a professional-grade
>> "Mad Dog" blade to replace the cheapo blade that came with it (that's
>> key), and it served me well for almost 1000 sqft of quite complicated
>> tile laying. We have a Frank Lloyd Wright style house where hardly any
>> wall is right-angle.
>>
>> It was hot, and sometimes I'd just let it run, stand in front of it and
>> let it rain on me. Poor man's evaporative cooling.
>
>We've chosen to lay our tile "diagonally".  Looks nicer (have purchased
>the tile and examined the layout on a CAD rendering I made of the
>floorplan) than "square".  But, I've been told this requires more
>cutting and more waste (doesn't seem like this should be the case
>but I will take the word of the folks who have done this for a living).
>
>I guess there is *no* tile that I will be able to set "against a
>wall" that won't need to be trimmed.  :-(  Plus, there's the
>"drop" into the sunken living room that will only use fractional
>tiles...
>
><shrug>  At a couple of bucks per square foot (to install), I
>figure I can afford to buy a decent saw and sell it when I'm
>done (for dimes on the dollar).


I think I've done this project...  I did some tile in my mom's kitchen
last year.  I was replacing the stove and oven, and the old tile
looked bad, and I made the mistake of suggesting that it should be
replaced.  *I* was thinking of replacing the 4x4 tile with... more 4x4
tile.  But no.  Between my mom and GF, they came up with a diagonal
pattern of larger tiles, with glass tile inserts across the middle row
of corners.  It looks good, but there is not a single tile on those
two walls that I did not have to cut (almost all of then under and
around cabinets and windows, and those that weren't needed the corners
cut for the glass inserts).  Every single f'ing one.

And why buy the saw?  Most home centers (or rental centers) will rent
you a fairly high quality one for a modest sum.  And let me suggest
not getting a cheap tile saw.  And if you're doing a large floor, you
should be starting from the center anyway, and you may be able to
avoid cutting any tile (and thus needing to rent a saw), until almost
the entire floor is done.

And yes, the diagonal pattern will cause much more waste near the
edges.  Although the area away from the edges is all whole tiles
(unless you're doing corner inserts!).  So the amount of waste is
related to the ratio between the length of the edges and the total
area.  Try to plan your layout so that none of the edges ends up with
tiny bits of tile.  Sometimes you luck out and the scraps from one
edge are big enough to use on another edge, so you have almost no
waste, other times you're tossing 49% of each tile on the edge.

Check with who you're purchasing the tiles from - you can usually
return unopened boxes.  Better to buy an extra box or two, and have
one to return than to have to reorder, which stops the project and
then you may not get tile from the same lot number.

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#12684

Hi Robert,

On 7/23/2013 7:50 PM, Robert Wessel wrote:

[...]

>> We've chosen to lay our tile "diagonally".  Looks nicer (have purchased
>> the tile and examined the layout on a CAD rendering I made of the
>> floorplan) than "square".  But, I've been told this requires more
>> cutting and more waste (doesn't seem like this should be the case
>> but I will take the word of the folks who have done this for a living).
>>
>> I guess there is *no* tile that I will be able to set "against a
>> wall" that won't need to be trimmed.  :-(  Plus, there's the
>> "drop" into the sunken living room that will only use fractional
>> tiles...
>>
>> <shrug>  At a couple of bucks per square foot (to install), I
>> figure I can afford to buy a decent saw and sell it when I'm
>> done (for dimes on the dollar).
>
> I think I've done this project...

Excellent!  Does that mean I can go home now??  ;-)
(I suspect this is going to *fry* my knees!)

> I did some tile in my mom's kitchen
> last year.  I was replacing the stove and oven, and the old tile
> looked bad, and I made the mistake of suggesting that it should be
> replaced.  *I* was thinking of replacing the 4x4 tile with... more 4x4
> tile.  But no.  Between my mom and GF, they came up with a diagonal
> pattern of larger tiles, with glass tile inserts across the middle row

I'd considered inserting some of the 4" tiles we're using for the
countertop in the corners of the larger tiles (15"?) we're using for
the floor.  "Tie" the floor and the counter together, aesthetically.
But, I'm not sure I want to take on that extra work...

> of corners.  It looks good, but there is not a single tile on those
> two walls that I did not have to cut (almost all of then under and
> around cabinets and windows, and those that weren't needed the corners
> cut for the glass inserts).  Every single f'ing one.

Ah, OK.  Wall tile.

> And why buy the saw?  Most home centers (or rental centers) will rent
> you a fairly high quality one for a modest sum.

Sh*t Happens.  Rent one for a day/week/whatever and midway through
that period you have to fix a car/go to hospital/attend to a sick
relative/etc.  When you're "on the clock" for something at which you
aren't already *proficient*, having to worry about getting the
equipment returned by a certain day/time just makes a tedious
problem into a *stressful* one!

I thought of renting a drywall lift since the ones you can buy
appear to be pretty flimsy.  And, if I hung drywall for a living,
I'm sure a day or two would be perfect!

But, not having done drywall before, OJT seems like it should
include a fair bit of "down time".  Time to look at what you've
done and figure out how the *next* piece of rock can go up
quicker/cleaner/etc.

> And let me suggest
> not getting a cheap tile saw.  And if you're doing a large floor, you
> should be starting from the center anyway, and you may be able to
> avoid cutting any tile (and thus needing to rent a saw), until almost
> the entire floor is done.

Yes.  I sat down with a CAD drawing of the floorplan and looked at
how the pattern changes based on where you lay the first tile.
E.g., you want to look at the halls (since they tend to be "thin"
when compared to the size of the (large) tiles... a diagonal
pattern that is off center *looks* off center!

Ah, but there are *lots* of halls and "long sight-lines"!  So,
you have to consider each of these and how they play off each other.

> And yes, the diagonal pattern will cause much more waste near the
> edges.  Although the area away from the edges is all whole tiles
> (unless you're doing corner inserts!).  So the amount of waste is
> related to the ratio between the length of the edges and the total
> area.  Try to plan your layout so that none of the edges ends up with
> tiny bits of tile.  Sometimes you luck out and the scraps from one
> edge are big enough to use on another edge, so you have almost no
> waste,

Yeah, though that doesn't guarantee that you won't still have to
*trim* that other piece!  :<

> other times you're tossing 49% of each tile on the edge.
>
> Check with who you're purchasing the tiles from - you can usually
> return unopened boxes.  Better to buy an extra box or two, and have
> one to return than to have to reorder, which stops the project and
> then you may not get tile from the same lot number.

Already purchased the tile, inspected *each* one, etc.  We didn't
want to discover that we'd need (just!) "2 more" tiles and they
were a different color lot, etc.

(sigh)  I'm sure this will be one of those "glad its over" projects.
But, I'm also looking forward to looking *back* on it and saying
"Yeah, I did *that*, too!".  :>

--don

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#12692

On 2013-07-23, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:


> We've chosen to lay our tile "diagonally".  Looks nicer (have purchased
> the tile and examined the layout on a CAD rendering I made of the
> floorplan) than "square".  But, I've been told this requires more
> cutting and more waste (doesn't seem like this should be the case
> but I will take the word of the folks who have done this for a living).

 it depends on the size of the room and the tiles.

 eg: if your floor is 14.14 feet across (sqrt(200)) and the tiles 1 foot square 
 (including grout) diagonal is more efficient
 
> I guess there is *no* tile that I will be able to set "against a
> wall" that won't need to be trimmed. 

it's best to trim every tile that's against a wall. escpecially if the
walls are crooked!

><shrug>  At a couple of bucks per square foot (to install), I
> figure I can afford to buy a decent saw and sell it when I'm
> done (for dimes on the dollar).

I've always used a tile cutter. I don't know if this works for 
stone tiles, but it's great on ceramic.

tricky bits I do freehand with a cheap 100mm angle grinder with a diamond disc
(dust tends to ruin the motor bearings), but now there are those
vibrating tools that would probably be even better.

-- 
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

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#12700

Hi Jasen,

On 7/24/2013 2:09 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:

>> We've chosen to lay our tile "diagonally".  Looks nicer (have purchased
>> the tile and examined the layout on a CAD rendering I made of the
>> floorplan) than "square".  But, I've been told this requires more
>> cutting and more waste (doesn't seem like this should be the case
>> but I will take the word of the folks who have done this for a living).
>
>   it depends on the size of the room and the tiles.
>
>   eg: if your floor is 14.14 feet across (sqrt(200)) and the tiles 1 foot square
>   (including grout) diagonal is more efficient

Yeah, well... I don't imagine there are many such rooms, in practice!
<grin>

>> I guess there is *no* tile that I will be able to set "against a
>> wall" that won't need to be trimmed.
>
> it's best to trim every tile that's against a wall. escpecially if the
> walls are crooked!

I've been told that a grout line should be along the wall.  And, that
this ends up covered by the base molding/casing.

>> <shrug>  At a couple of bucks per square foot (to install), I
>> figure I can afford to buy a decent saw and sell it when I'm
>> done (for dimes on the dollar).
>
> I've always used a tile cutter. I don't know if this works for
> stone tiles, but it's great on ceramic.

I think tile cutters only work on ceramic tile.  "Score and break".
These need to be cut with a wet saw (apparently).

> tricky bits I do freehand with a cheap 100mm angle grinder with a diamond disc
> (dust tends to ruin the motor bearings), but now there are those
> vibrating tools that would probably be even better.

Hmmm... I wouldn't have thought of that!  I will have to ask around
and see what sorts of experience(s) folks have had with them.

Thx!
--don

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#12608

On 7/21/2013 10:48 AM, Joerg wrote:
> Carl Ijames wrote:
>> For just one, find someone with a manual mill and have the slots milled.
>> Maybe post on rec.crafts.metalworking and tell where you are and maybe
>> someone will volunteer.  Or find a machine shop in your area.  Laser
>> cutting, punching, or cnc milling will all cost twice as much because of the
>> set up and programming involved.  If you want five or ten or more, then that
>> gets spread out and doesn't matter much, but for one the overhead is a
>> killer.
>>
>
> Or use the situation as the perfect excuse to get one of these:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html

So the price for one 3x12 panel is $539.99 PLUS the cost of material and 
labor.

Cheap at twice the price ! ;-)


>
> It's still less than what most wives spend on shoes, handbags and such
> in a year :-)
>

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#12619

hamilton wrote:
> On 7/21/2013 10:48 AM, Joerg wrote:
>> Carl Ijames wrote:
>>> For just one, find someone with a manual mill and have the slots milled.
>>> Maybe post on rec.crafts.metalworking and tell where you are and maybe
>>> someone will volunteer.  Or find a machine shop in your area.  Laser
>>> cutting, punching, or cnc milling will all cost twice as much because
>>> of the
>>> set up and programming involved.  If you want five or ten or more,
>>> then that
>>> gets spread out and doesn't matter much, but for one the overhead is a
>>> killer.
>>>
>>
>> Or use the situation as the perfect excuse to get one of these:
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/two-speed-variable-bench-mill-drill-machine-44991.html
>>
> 
> So the price for one 3x12 panel is $539.99 PLUS the cost of material and
> labor.
> 
> Cheap at twice the price ! ;-)
> 

No, no, this is the _excuse_ to buy it ... "Honey, I really needed to
have this". Of course you could have easily made the piece by hand if
it's a one-off, but she doesn't have to know :-)

[...]

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#12597

Hi Carl,

On 7/21/2013 9:36 AM, Carl Ijames wrote:
> For just one, find someone with a manual mill and have the slots milled.
> Maybe post on rec.crafts.metalworking and tell where you are and maybe
> someone will volunteer.  Or find a machine shop in your area.

(slaps head) D'oh!  Friend with EDM's probably still has a few
Bridgeports in the back room for jobs that are too small to setup
on the wire cutters!  I.e., no real "set-up" involved using a mill
(compared to "programming" the EDM's).  This is a much *smaller*
favor to ask... ;-)

> Laser
> cutting, punching, or cnc milling will all cost twice as much because of the
> set up and programming involved.  If you want five or ten or more, then that
> gets spread out and doesn't matter much, but for one the overhead is a
> killer.

Exactly.  Old school is the only practical way to go if you are
going to have someone else do it for you.

Thanks!  That gives me a more practical approach (though still leaves
"those who follow" in a bind...)

--don

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