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'shake well'

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  'shake well' Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-03 22:33 -0400
    Re: 'shake well' Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 00:03 -0400
      Re: 'shake well' Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 23:05 -0700
      Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 12:02 +0200
        Re: 'shake well' Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-04 08:46 -0400
          Re: 'shake well' Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-04 20:26 +0200
        Re: 'shake well' Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 09:28 -0400
    Re: 'shake well' Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-04 06:38 +0100
      Re: 'shake well' Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-04 08:49 +0200
    Re: 'shake well' Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-04 06:51 +0100
      Re: 'shake well' Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-04 08:48 -0400
    Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 08:28 +0200
    Re: 'shake well' Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-07-04 08:43 +0200
      Re: 'shake well' Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-04 08:02 +0100
        Re: 'shake well' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-04 11:53 +0200
        Re: 'shake well' Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-04 20:05 +0100
      Re: 'shake well' Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-07-04 22:59 +1200
        Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 16:25 +0200
          Re: 'shake well' HVS <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2026-07-04 16:11 +0100
            Re: 'shake well' Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-07-04 16:27 +0100
            Re: 'shake well' richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-07-04 15:40 +0000
              Re: 'shake well' Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-05 10:06 +0100
          Re: 'shake well' Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-07-04 16:00 +0000
          Re: 'shake well' Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-07-05 18:05 +1200
            Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-05 08:45 +0200
      Re: 'shake well' Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-07-04 08:39 -0400
    Re: 'shake well' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-04 11:53 +0200
      Re: 'shake well' occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-07-04 12:05 +0200
        Re: 'shake well' liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-07-04 12:29 +0100
          Re: 'shake well' Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 00:20 -0700
          Re: 'shake well' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-07-05 09:22 +0200
    Re: 'shake well' "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 21:49 +0800
    Re: 'shake well' Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-07-04 20:01 +0100

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#1146207

In article <XnsB47FA4B3A70D1whhvans@77.42.22.226>,
HVS  <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:

>Concise Oxford Dictionary, I believe.

I like the way the word "CONCISE" reflects in a mirror:

https://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~richard/concise.jpg

-- Richard

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#1146248

 Ar an ceathrú lá de mí Iúil, scríobh Richard Tobin: 

 > In article <XnsB47FA4B3A70D1whhvans@77.42.22.226>,
 > HVS  <office@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
 > 
 > >Concise Oxford Dictionary, I believe.
 > 
 > I like the way the word "CONCISE" reflects in a mirror:
 > 
 > https://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~richard/concise.jpg

СОИСIƧЕ, for those with Unicode diplay and with no wish to load an image.
Interestingly the only one of those glyphs that could not plausibly be
represented in Cyrillic rather than Latin is Ƨ!

-- 
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

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#1146208

On 04/07/2026 15:25, occam wrote:
> On 04/07/2026 12:59, Ross Clark wrote:
>> On 4/07/2026 6:43 p.m., Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 04.07.2026 kl. 04.33 skrev Rich Ulrich:
>>>
>>>> But my lifetime experience with other sealed containers has
>>>> taught me that a juice container (say) with sediment on the
>>>> bottom will NOT be mixed by shaking unless there is air inside.
>>>> You can shake it and SEE that the sediment is not affected.
>>>> But they still may say, 'shake well'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Half-empty makes for effective mix-by-shaking. which may  be
>>>> okay if you are pouring everything back together.
>>>>
>>>> If the container is transparent (even, just at the bottom), you
>>>> can see what is stuck on the bottom.  But what do you do for
>>>> a cardboard container?
>>>
>>> My father provides orange juice for me when I visit him. I don't
>>> usually drink juice due to the acidic contents, but I enjoy doing so
>>> occasionally.
>>>
>>> The container is made of cardboard. If it is full, I just pour a glass
>>> and drink it. Then I can shake the container for the next glass(es).
>>>
>>> Related - and Danish:
>>> There's a word about the sediment that may be found in wine bottles
>>> ("bærme"). The same word can be used about people meaning that they
>>> are worthless. I haven't heard that word since my parents explained it
>>> to me and I haven't used it about anything else than the residue in
>>> wine bottles - which I think I have seen once.
>>>
>>
>> Cf. English: barmy (sometimes spelled balmy) 'crazy, stupid'
>> from barm 'froth on fermenting malt liquor'   (COD)
> 
> Sorry, which dictionary is COD? 'balmy' in my speech is 'pleasant' as in
> 'balmy summer nights'. It's barmy if it shares the same spelling with
> 'crazy' barmy.
> 
concise Oxford?

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#1146225

On 5/07/2026 2:25 a.m., occam wrote:
> On 04/07/2026 12:59, Ross Clark wrote:
>> On 4/07/2026 6:43 p.m., Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 04.07.2026 kl. 04.33 skrev Rich Ulrich:
>>>
>>>> But my lifetime experience with other sealed containers has
>>>> taught me that a juice container (say) with sediment on the
>>>> bottom will NOT be mixed by shaking unless there is air inside.
>>>> You can shake it and SEE that the sediment is not affected.
>>>> But they still may say, 'shake well'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Half-empty makes for effective mix-by-shaking. which may  be
>>>> okay if you are pouring everything back together.
>>>>
>>>> If the container is transparent (even, just at the bottom), you
>>>> can see what is stuck on the bottom.  But what do you do for
>>>> a cardboard container?
>>>
>>> My father provides orange juice for me when I visit him. I don't
>>> usually drink juice due to the acidic contents, but I enjoy doing so
>>> occasionally.
>>>
>>> The container is made of cardboard. If it is full, I just pour a glass
>>> and drink it. Then I can shake the container for the next glass(es).
>>>
>>> Related - and Danish:
>>> There's a word about the sediment that may be found in wine bottles
>>> ("bærme"). The same word can be used about people meaning that they
>>> are worthless. I haven't heard that word since my parents explained it
>>> to me and I haven't used it about anything else than the residue in
>>> wine bottles - which I think I have seen once.
>>>
>>
>> Cf. English: barmy (sometimes spelled balmy) 'crazy, stupid'
>> from barm 'froth on fermenting malt liquor'   (COD)
> 
> Sorry, which dictionary is COD? 'balmy' in my speech is 'pleasant' as in
> 'balmy summer nights'. It's barmy if it shares the same spelling with
> 'crazy' barmy.
> 

Concise Oxford Dictionary (Eighth Edition, 1990).

barm (old word, straight from Proto-Germanic) 'froth on fermenting malt 
liquor' (formerly 'yeast, leaven')

balm (Middle English < French < Latin balsamum) 'aromatic 
ointment...healing or soothing influence...'

balmy (from 1500) 'mild and fragrant, soothing'

barmy (from 1500s) 'frothy'

The meaning of this extends to 'full of ferment, excitedly active, 
flighty' (usually of someone's head). (1600-1800)

By the 19th century this has generalized to 'foolish, stupid, silly'.
But by this time, barm = balm, in the pronunciaton of many English 
speakers (assuming they have both words in their vocabulary). So there's 
some uncertainty about how to spell the adjective. So OED has-l- 
spellings from 1851, but -r- only from 1892.

When I heard this in my youth, I assumed it was -l-, perhaps from seeing 
it in print, or because 'barm' did not exist in my vocabulary; I vaguely 
knew what 'balm' was (there's one in Gilead, apparently), and there 
certainly was an adjective 'balmy' with a very different meaning. Only 
recently have I learned the history of 'barmy', from dictionaries.

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#1146227

On 05/07/2026 08:05, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 5/07/2026 2:25 a.m., occam wrote:
>> On 04/07/2026 12:59, Ross Clark wrote:
>>> On 4/07/2026 6:43 p.m., Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>>> Den 04.07.2026 kl. 04.33 skrev Rich Ulrich:
>>>>
>>>>> But my lifetime experience with other sealed containers has
>>>>> taught me that a juice container (say) with sediment on the
>>>>> bottom will NOT be mixed by shaking unless there is air inside.
>>>>> You can shake it and SEE that the sediment is not affected.
>>>>> But they still may say, 'shake well'.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Half-empty makes for effective mix-by-shaking. which may  be
>>>>> okay if you are pouring everything back together.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the container is transparent (even, just at the bottom), you
>>>>> can see what is stuck on the bottom.  But what do you do for
>>>>> a cardboard container?
>>>>
>>>> My father provides orange juice for me when I visit him. I don't
>>>> usually drink juice due to the acidic contents, but I enjoy doing so
>>>> occasionally.
>>>>
>>>> The container is made of cardboard. If it is full, I just pour a glass
>>>> and drink it. Then I can shake the container for the next glass(es).
>>>>
>>>> Related - and Danish:
>>>> There's a word about the sediment that may be found in wine bottles
>>>> ("bærme"). The same word can be used about people meaning that they
>>>> are worthless. I haven't heard that word since my parents explained it
>>>> to me and I haven't used it about anything else than the residue in
>>>> wine bottles - which I think I have seen once.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Cf. English: barmy (sometimes spelled balmy) 'crazy, stupid'
>>> from barm 'froth on fermenting malt liquor'   (COD)
>>
>> Sorry, which dictionary is COD? 'balmy' in my speech is 'pleasant' as in
>> 'balmy summer nights'. It's barmy if it shares the same spelling with
>> 'crazy' barmy.
>>
> 
> Concise Oxford Dictionary (Eighth Edition, 1990).
> 
> barm (old word, straight from Proto-Germanic) 'froth on fermenting malt
> liquor' (formerly 'yeast, leaven')
> 
> balm (Middle English < French < Latin balsamum) 'aromatic
> ointment...healing or soothing influence...'
> 
> balmy (from 1500) 'mild and fragrant, soothing'
> 
> barmy (from 1500s) 'frothy'
> 
> The meaning of this extends to 'full of ferment, excitedly active,
> flighty' (usually of someone's head). (1600-1800)
> 
> By the 19th century this has generalized to 'foolish, stupid, silly'.
> But by this time, barm = balm, in the pronunciaton of many English
> speakers (assuming they have both words in their vocabulary). 

Thank you. That sounds plausible. (My first reaction was - perhaps a
Japanese editor of the Concise Oriental Dictionary could not
differentiate between the two.) </smile>

> So there's
> some uncertainty about how to spell the adjective. So OED has-l-
> spellings from 1851, but -r- only from 1892.
> 
> When I heard this in my youth, I assumed it was -l-, perhaps from seeing
> it in print, or because 'barm' did not exist in my vocabulary; I vaguely
> knew what 'balm' was (there's one in Gilead, apparently), and there
> certainly was an adjective 'balmy' with a very different meaning. Only
> recently have I learned the history of 'barmy', from dictionaries.

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#1146191

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 08:43:05 +0200, Bertel Lund Hansen
<rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>Den 04.07.2026 kl. 04.33 skrev Rich Ulrich:
>
>> But my lifetime experience with other sealed containers has
>> taught me that a juice container (say) with sediment on the
>> bottom will NOT be mixed by shaking unless there is air inside.
>> You can shake it and SEE that the sediment is not affected.
>> But they still may say, 'shake well'.
>> 
>> 
>> Half-empty makes for effective mix-by-shaking. which may  be
>> okay if you are pouring everything back together.
>> 
>> If the container is transparent (even, just at the bottom), you
>> can see what is stuck on the bottom.  But what do you do for
>> a cardboard container?
>
>My father provides orange juice for me when I visit him. I don't usually 
>drink juice due to the acidic contents, but I enjoy doing so occasionally.
>
>The container is made of cardboard. If it is full, I just pour a glass 
>and drink it. Then I can shake the container for the next glass(es).

Oh!  This leads me to notice that I'm being obsessive-compulsive. 
There is no great virtue in having two portions that are identical, 
which is what I was focussed on. 


>
>Related - and Danish:
>There's a word about the sediment that may be found in wine bottles 
>("bærme"). The same word can be used about people meaning that they are 
>worthless. I haven't heard that word since my parents explained it to me 
>and I haven't used it about anything else than the residue in wine 
>bottles - which I think I have seen once.

-- 
Rich Ulrich 

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#1146180

Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> wrote:

> Useful vs un-useful instructions: 
> 
> Spray paint comes in sealed containers that say "shake well" 
> and that make that functional by  including inside some heavy
> ball bearing -- you can listed to it rattle around, as it stirs and
> mixes. 
> 
> But my lifetime experience with other sealed containers has
> taught me that a juice container (say) with sediment on the
> bottom will NOT be mixed by shaking unless there is air inside. 
> You can shake it and SEE that the sediment is not affected. 
> But they still may say, 'shake well'.  

Not my experience. Holding it upside down and shaking
(followed by some vigorous rotations) will work.
> 
> Half-empty makes for effective mix-by-shaking. which may  be 
> okay if you are pouring everything back together.  
> 
> If the container is transparent (even, just at the bottom), you
> can see what is stuck on the bottom.  But what do you do for
> a cardboard container? 
> 
> I have 250ml boxes of food ssupplement (like Boost or Ensure),
> with a small cap; filled to the brim.  I want to pour HALF a 
> container, after mixing.  I have not found a proper stick for
> stirring, and I haven't tried somegthing like tying a thread on
> a nut, to make a removable bounce-mixer.  
> 
> I suppose that a vibrator might work some for this mixture,
> but the only 'vibrating' instrument I have is my iPhone, 
> which does not shake all that vigorously. 
> 
> What do you do? 

If you don't have a vibrator on hand you could try a tooth brush,
or for more brute force, a vibrating sander?

Jan

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#1146186

On 04/07/2026 11:53, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> If you don't have a vibrator on hand ...

<smile> Is this something you normally have on hand Jan? Not part of my
toolset.

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#1146190

occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:

> On 04/07/2026 11:53, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> 
> > If you don't have a vibrator on hand ...
> 
> <smile> Is this something you normally have on hand Jan? Not part of my
> toolset.

I didn't know you applied them to your hand.


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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#1146234

Liz Tuddenham is guilty of 
<1rxq2l9.1qgrlbw18swd1cN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> as of 
7/4/2026 4:29:08 AM
> occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:
>
>> On 04/07/2026 11:53, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> 
>>> If you don't have a vibrator on hand ...
>> 
>> <smile> Is this something you normally have on hand Jan? Not part of my
>> toolset.
>
> I didn't know you applied them to your hand.

Often applied to backs, though that doesn't work well with the ones run 
by tokens.

/dps

-- 
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
 In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)

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#1146236

Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:

> occam <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote:
> 
> > On 04/07/2026 11:53, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > 
> > > If you don't have a vibrator on hand ...
> > 
> > <smile> Is this something you normally have on hand Jan? Not part of my
> > toolset.
> 
> I didn't know you applied them to your hand.

Perhaps occam doesn't have much experience with hand tools,

Jan

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#1146198

On 7/4/2026 10:33 AM, Rich Ulrich wrote:
> 
> Spray paint comes in sealed containers that say "shake well"

You can also spray the tip of paint pen!!

Did you notice that tool in Japanese
model builder shops? :)

-- 

    @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
   / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
  /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw
          The game is afoot... Meow...

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#1146214

On 04/07/2026 03:33, Rich Ulrich wrote:
> Useful vs un-useful instructions:
> 
> Spray paint comes in sealed containers that say "shake well"
> and that make that functional by  including inside some heavy
> ball bearing -- you can listed to it rattle around, as it stirs and
> mixes.
> 
> But my lifetime experience with other sealed containers has
> taught me that a juice container (say) with sediment on the
> bottom will NOT be mixed by shaking unless there is air inside.
> You can shake it and SEE that the sediment is not affected.
> But they still may say, 'shake well'.
> 
> 
> Half-empty makes for effective mix-by-shaking. which may  be
> okay if you are pouring everything back together.
> 
> If the container is transparent (even, just at the bottom), you
> can see what is stuck on the bottom.  But what do you do for
> a cardboard container?
> 
> I have 250ml boxes of food ssupplement (like Boost or Ensure),
> with a small cap; filled to the brim.  I want to pour HALF a
> container, after mixing.  I have not found a proper stick for
> stirring, and I haven't tried somegthing like tying a thread on
> a nut, to make a removable bounce-mixer.
> 
> I suppose that a vibrator might work some for this mixture,
> but the only 'vibrating' instrument I have is my iPhone,
> which does not shake all that vigorously.
> 
> What do you do?

Not what I would do, but the answer to your cardboard containers might 
be to first pour out a libation to the gods - which then would leave a 
usable air space in the container so that shaking becomes effective.

Hence a dose of spiritual health to go with the physical health you seek 
from the supplements.

It might be difficult to determine which offers you a greater benefit.

-- 
Sam Plusnet

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