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Groups > alt.usage.english > #577268 > unrolled thread

White Privilege

Started byDavid Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com>
First post2015-12-26 12:18 -0800
Last post2015-12-28 20:10 +1100
Articles 20 on this page of 164 — 34 participants

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Contents

  White Privilege David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 12:18 -0800
    Re: White Privilege Horace LaBadie <hlabadie@nospam.com> - 2015-12-26 15:46 -0500
    Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-26 17:58 -0330
    Re: White Privilege Harrison Hill <harrisonhill2345@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 14:12 -0800
      Re: White Privilege Helen Lacedaemonian <helenofsunnyvale@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 23:50 -0800
    Re: White Privilege Helen Lacedaemonian <helenofsunnyvale@gmail.com> - 2015-12-26 23:48 -0800
      Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-27 06:58 -0330
        Re: White Privilege "Don Phillipson" <e925@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> - 2015-12-27 08:46 -0500
          Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-27 08:32 -0800
        Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-27 08:49 -0800
          Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-27 10:40 -0800
            Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-27 10:57 -0800
              Re: White Privilege Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2015-12-27 20:20 -0500
            Re: White Privilege spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com - 2015-12-27 12:16 -0800
              Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-27 13:19 -0800
                Re: White Privilege charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2015-12-27 21:49 +0000
                  Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-27 14:06 -0800
                    Re: White Privilege James Hogg <Jas.Hogg@gOUTmail.com> - 2015-12-27 23:15 +0100
                    Re: White Privilege charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2015-12-27 22:20 +0000
                      Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-27 20:34 -0800
                      Re: White Privilege Janet <nobody@home.org> - 2015-12-28 12:27 +0000
                        Re: White Privilege richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2015-12-28 19:29 +0000
                          Re: White Privilege "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-28 22:15 +0000
                    Re: White Privilege charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2015-12-27 22:26 +0000
                      Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 20:06 -0500
                        Re: White Privilege wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2015-12-28 01:34 +0000
                        Re: White Privilege John Dawkins <artfldodgr@aol.com> - 2015-12-28 10:26 -0800
                      Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-27 20:40 -0800
                        Re: White Privilege Horace LaBadie <hlabadie@nospam.com> - 2015-12-28 01:54 -0500
                          Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 04:18 -0800
                            Re: White Privilege Horace LaBadie <hlabadie@nospam.com> - 2015-12-28 09:05 -0500
                              Re: White Privilege Horace LaBadie <hlabadie@nospam.com> - 2015-12-28 11:59 -0500
                                Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 11:39 -0800
                                  Re: White Privilege Horace LaBadie <hlabadie@nospam.com> - 2015-12-28 15:42 -0500
                                    Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 13:23 -0800
                        Re: White Privilege charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2015-12-28 09:27 +0000
                          Re: White Privilege Janet <nobody@home.org> - 2015-12-28 12:30 +0000
                        Re: White Privilege "Don Phillipson" <e925@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> - 2015-12-28 11:44 -0500
                  Re: White Privilege James Hogg <Jas.Hogg@gOUTmail.com> - 2015-12-27 23:15 +0100
                    Re: White Privilege charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2015-12-27 22:22 +0000
                Re: White Privilege "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-28 13:57 +0000
                  Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 09:23 -0500
                    Re: White Privilege "Don Phillipson" <e925@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> - 2015-12-28 11:37 -0500
                      Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-28 15:12 -0800
                      Re: White Privilege Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-29 15:38 +1100
                        Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-28 22:53 -0700
                  Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 06:41 -0800
                    Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 09:52 -0500
                      Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 08:38 -0800
                        Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 13:26 -0500
                          Re: White Privilege "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-28 22:19 +0000
                            Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 17:47 -0500
                              Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 19:58 -0800
              Re: White Privilege "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2015-12-27 22:26 +0000
              Re: White Privilege Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-28 20:23 +1100
                Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-28 08:45 -0330
                  Re: White Privilege HVS <usenet@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2015-12-28 14:31 +0000
                    Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-28 11:53 -0330
                      Re: White Privilege David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 10:18 -0800
                        Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-28 15:52 -0330
                        Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2015-12-28 14:54 -0500
                          Re: White Privilege David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 14:14 -0800
                          Re: White Privilege Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-12-31 01:24 -0800
                            Re: White Privilege David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 09:38 -0800
                              Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-31 11:16 -0800
                                Re: White Privilege David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 12:31 -0800
                                  Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2016-01-01 06:03 -0800
                            Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2016-01-04 09:12 -0500
                              Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-04 07:26 -0800
                      Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2015-12-28 15:09 -0500
                        Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-28 16:55 -0330
                          Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2016-01-04 12:56 -0500
                            Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2016-01-04 14:07 -0700
                              Re: White Privilege Mike Barnes <mikebarnes333@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 22:07 +0000
                            Re: White Privilege wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-01-04 21:57 +0000
                              Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2016-01-04 17:36 -0500
                                Re: White Privilege wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-01-05 01:24 +0000
                                  Re: White Privilege Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2016-01-04 21:14 -0500
                        Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-28 15:59 -0700
                          Re: White Privilege msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2015-12-28 18:20 -0600
                            Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 19:45 -0500
                            Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-28 17:53 -0700
                              Re: White Privilege msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2015-12-28 22:53 -0600
                                Re: White Privilege Richard Yates <richard@yatesguitar.com> - 2015-12-28 21:08 -0800
                                  Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-28 22:54 -0700
                                    Re: White Privilege msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2015-12-29 06:23 -0600
                                      Re: White Privilege Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-30 11:51 +1100
                                        Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-29 18:58 -0700
                                          Re: White Privilege msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2015-12-29 22:19 -0600
                                            Re: White Privilege bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-12-29 21:04 -0800
                                              Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-30 07:01 -0800
                                                Re: White Privilege Horace LaBadie <hlabadie@nospam.com> - 2015-12-30 11:47 -0500
                                                  Re: White Privilege Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-12-31 01:30 -0800
                                                    Re: White Privilege Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-12-31 01:37 -0800
                          Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 20:02 -0800
                            Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-28 22:55 -0700
                              Re: White Privilege Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2015-12-29 11:08 +0100
                          Re: White Privilege Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-29 15:57 +1100
                    Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 08:44 -0800
                      Re: White Privilege "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 18:09 -0800
                        Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-28 20:50 -0700
                        Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-28 20:44 -0800
                          Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-29 06:49 -0800
                            Re: White Privilege rcpj@panix.com (Pierre Jelenc) - 2015-12-29 17:18 +0000
                    Re: White Privilege Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-29 15:48 +1100
                      Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-28 22:57 -0700
                        Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-29 08:42 -0330
                          Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2016-01-04 12:56 -0500
                            Re: White Privilege Will Parsons <varro@nodomain.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:38 +0000
                              Re: White Privilege David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 12:03 -0800
                                Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2016-01-04 17:36 -0500
                                  Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 18:03 -0500
                                  Re: White Privilege David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 16:11 -0800
                              Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2016-01-04 17:36 -0500
                                Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2016-01-04 19:14 -0330
                                Re: White Privilege richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2016-01-04 22:52 +0000
                                Re: White Privilege wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2016-01-05 01:34 +0000
                                  Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2016-01-04 19:55 -0700
                                    Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2016-01-05 06:24 -0330
                                Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2016-01-05 13:32 -0500
                              Re: White Privilege Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2016-01-05 15:20 +1100
                            Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2016-01-04 19:02 -0330
                              Re: White Privilege Oliver Cromm <lispamateur@crommatograph.info> - 2016-01-05 13:32 -0500
                            Re: White Privilege "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 18:49 -0800
                              Re: White Privilege "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net> - 2016-01-05 12:02 +0000
                        Re: White Privilege msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2015-12-29 06:24 -0600
                          Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-29 06:01 -0700
                            Re: White Privilege msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) - 2015-12-29 22:15 -0600
                        Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-29 08:30 -0800
                          Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 12:28 -0500
                            Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-29 14:11 -0330
                              Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-29 10:29 -0800
                                Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-29 16:16 -0330
                                Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-29 16:20 -0330
                                  Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-29 14:05 -0700
                                    Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-29 17:58 -0330
                                      Re: White Privilege Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 23:25 -0800
                                    Re: White Privilege "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 17:58 -0800
                                Re: White Privilege Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2015-12-30 10:27 +0100
                                  Re: White Privilege Ross <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2015-12-30 01:57 -0800
                                  Re: White Privilege Jack Campin <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 10:04 +0000
                              Re: White Privilege HVS <usenet@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 12:01 +0000
                          Re: White Privilege Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-30 11:57 +1100
                            Re: White Privilege Will Parsons <varro@nodomain.invalid> - 2015-12-30 01:24 +0000
                            Re: White Privilege Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 23:32 -0800
                Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-28 04:20 -0800
            Re: White Privilege "Don Phillipson" <e925@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> - 2015-12-27 14:08 -0500
              Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-27 13:23 -0800
              Re: White Privilege Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 16:49 -0500
                Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-27 14:07 -0800
                Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2015-12-27 19:08 -0700
              Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-27 19:14 -0800
                Re: White Privilege Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-27 19:19 -0800
          Re: White Privilege "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 11:25 -0800
            Re: White Privilege "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> - 2015-12-27 13:27 -0800
            Re: White Privilege Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 23:37 -0800
              Re: White Privilege RH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net> - 2016-01-06 03:15 -0700
                Re: White Privilege Helen Lacedaemonian <helenofsunnyvale@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 21:16 -0800
                  Re: White Privilege bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2016-01-06 22:51 -0800
          Re: White Privilege Helen Lacedaemonian <helenofsunnyvale@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 12:19 -0800
          Re: White Privilege Cheryl <cperkins@mun.ca> - 2015-12-27 17:26 -0330
      Re: White Privilege David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 10:36 -0800
        Re: White Privilege Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2015-12-28 10:12 +0100
      Re: White Privilege Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid> - 2015-12-28 20:10 +1100

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#577652

From"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net>
Date2015-12-28 13:57 +0000
Message-ID<7re28bptrjeobas7k8lhnaj4ia7v66t47g@4ax.com>
In reply to#577503
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 13:19:22 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 3:16:43 PM UTC-5, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, 27 December 2015 18:40:55 UTC, Peter T. Daniels  wrote:
>
>> > applications with "obviously black" names like Tyrone and Shaniqua 
>> > are responded to significantly less than ones with non-identifiable names. 
>> 
>> Are those "obviously black" names, or just chavvy?
>
>They're obviously black names, but I've no idea what chavvy is.

The description of "Tyrone" as an "obviously black" name may be limited
to its use the US.

Until just now I was completely unaware of this:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tyrone

    Proper noun: Tyrone is the general name for a black male whose true
    name is unknown. Unlike offensive generic names, like Toby or Kunta
    Kinte, the name Tyrone does not mean to carry an offensive quality.
    
    Also, the term can be used as a unit of measurment in reference to
    black males.

    "Tyrone's got a kickass car over there."
    
    "Six Tyrones just walked into the party."

AFAIK "Tyrone" isn't used in that or any other generic sense in BrE.

Searching for .uk websites mentioning "tyrone" results, of course, in a
long list of County Tyrone references.

However, in the West of England is a business named "Tyrone Snell
Trailers" (slogan 'putting trailers behind you for 30 years'). The
founder appears to have been a Tyrone Snell.
http://tyronesnelltrailers.co.uk/about-us/

    Ivor  Kneller
    
    Ivor took over the business when Tyrone Snell retired in August,
    2009. With a background in sales and marketing Ivor has an
    enthusiasm for his subject and enjoys the cut and thrust of dealing
    with customers. When not at work Ivor enjoys being a RIBster and
    doing the odd bit of fishing from his boat.

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

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#577657

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2015-12-28 09:23 -0500
Message-ID<eag28b97osr91rr6bm7s3qbu192lfhekt7@4ax.com>
In reply to#577652
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:57:15 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 13:19:22 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
><grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 3:16:43 PM UTC-5, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 27 December 2015 18:40:55 UTC, Peter T. Daniels  wrote:
>>
>>> > applications with "obviously black" names like Tyrone and Shaniqua 
>>> > are responded to significantly less than ones with non-identifiable names. 
>>> 
>>> Are those "obviously black" names, or just chavvy?
>>
>>They're obviously black names, but I've no idea what chavvy is.
>
>The description of "Tyrone" as an "obviously black" name may be limited
>to its use the US.

I think that it's been made clear in the postings that the discussion
has been about American Tyrones.

I think the name "Tyrone" is becoming less used in the US even though
it is still associated with black males. I pulled up a list of
American high school football players that are ranked highly as
college football prospects.  Of the 300 players, there was one Tyrone
and one Tyron.

Off the subject, but some of the more interesting first names on the
list:  Shy, Soso, Shameik, Ykili, Kerryon, and Equanimeous.  What
seems to be popular is a first name with a ' included:  D'Anfernee,
De'Andre, Ja'Mycal, Da'Ron, Ty'Son, Dre'Mont, and Quart'e.  
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

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#577680

From"Don Phillipson" <e925@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca>
Date2015-12-28 11:37 -0500
Message-ID<n5rotl$oa7$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#577657
"Tony Cooper" <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:eag28b97osr91rr6bm7s3qbu192lfhekt7@4ax.com...

> . . . I pulled up a list of
> American high school football players that are ranked highly as
> college football prospects.  Of the 300 players, there was one Tyrone
> and one Tyron.
>
> Off the subject, but some of the more interesting first names on the
> list:  Shy, Soso, Shameik, Ykili, Kerryon, and Equanimeous.  What
> seems to be popular is a first name with a ' included:  D'Anfernee,
> De'Andre, Ja'Mycal, Da'Ron, Ty'Son, Dre'Mont, and Quart'e.

. . . And to think people used to deplore the French law restricting
given names to an official list of saints and classical names . . .!
(An early employer was a French government official named
Tony:  perhaps originally Antoine, but he joined De Gaulle in
wartime, his personal records were destroyed, and began his
government career in 1945 as the only official Tony in France.)
-- 
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

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#577749

FromJerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com>
Date2015-12-28 15:12 -0800
Message-ID<82ddc24d-d8c7-47e3-9693-09ea349f152e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#577680
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 11:44:41 AM UTC-5, Don Phillipson wrote:
> "Tony Cooper" <tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:eag28b97osr91rr6bm7s3qbu192lfhekt7@4ax.com...
> 
> > . . . I pulled up a list of
> > American high school football players that are ranked highly as
> > college football prospects.  Of the 300 players, there was one Tyrone
> > and one Tyron.
> >
> > Off the subject, but some of the more interesting first names on the
> > list:  Shy, Soso, Shameik, Ykili, Kerryon, and Equanimeous.  What
> > seems to be popular is a first name with a ' included:  D'Anfernee,
> > De'Andre, Ja'Mycal, Da'Ron, Ty'Son, Dre'Mont, and Quart'e.

That used to be done just with caps: LeBron, LaDainian, etc.

> . . . And to think people used to deplore the French law restricting
> given names to an official list of saints and classical names . . .!
...

I'd imagine that people named Ykili and Quart'e are especially likely
to deplore such laws, to the extent that they care about them.

-- 
Jerry Friedman

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#577816

FromPeter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid>
Date2015-12-29 15:38 +1100
Message-ID<n5t2jj$pmt$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#577680
On 2015-Dec-29 03:37, Don Phillipson wrote:

> . . . And to think people used to deplore the French law restricting
> given names to an official list of saints and classical names . . .!
> (An early employer was a French government official named
> Tony:  perhaps originally Antoine, but he joined De Gaulle in
> wartime, his personal records were destroyed, and began his
> government career in 1945 as the only official Tony in France.)

I had a Belgian uncle-in-law called Pierre, but at some stage I
discovered that his Totally Official name, the one he never used, was
Peter. It happened because his parents fled to England to escape the war
(the 1914-1918 one), so when he was born the authorities registered him
with an English name.

-- 
Peter Moylan                           http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

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#577827

FromRH Draney <dadoctah@cox.net>
Date2015-12-28 22:53 -0700
Message-ID<n5t7851foa@news6.newsguy.com>
In reply to#577816
On 12/28/2015 9:38 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> I had a Belgian uncle-in-law called Pierre, but at some stage I
> discovered that his Totally Official name, the one he never used, was
> Peter. It happened because his parents fled to England to escape the war
> (the 1914-1918 one), so when he was born the authorities registered him
> with an English name.

I used to work with a guy named Rocky (from his Totally Official 
"Rocco") who was an above-average amateur drummer...he joked that if he 
ever took it up seriously, he'd want to change his name to Peter....r

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#577664

From"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net>
Date2015-12-28 06:41 -0800
Message-ID<ce2d26c6-8eb2-4dec-b033-1c49a65d2406@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#577652
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 8:57:16 AM UTC-5, PeterWD wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 13:19:22 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 3:16:43 PM UTC-5, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
> >> On Sunday, 27 December 2015 18:40:55 UTC, Peter T. Daniels  wrote:

> >> > applications with "obviously black" names like Tyrone and Shaniqua 
> >> > are responded to significantly less than ones with non-identifiable names. 
> >> Are those "obviously black" names, or just chavvy?
> >They're obviously black names, but I've no idea what chavvy is.
> 
> The description of "Tyrone" as an "obviously black" name may be limited
> to its use the US.
> 
> Until just now I was completely unaware of this:
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tyrone
> 
>     Proper noun: Tyrone is the general name for a black male whose true
>     name is unknown. Unlike offensive generic names, like Toby or Kunta
>     Kinte, the name Tyrone does not mean to carry an offensive quality.
>     
>     Also, the term can be used as a unit of measurment in reference to
>     black males.
> 
>     "Tyrone's got a kickass car over there."
>     
>     "Six Tyrones just walked into the party."
> 
> AFAIK "Tyrone" isn't used in that or any other generic sense in BrE.

I have no reason to believe it's used in any but the first sentence of the 
first way here; nor have I heard of "Toby" in any connection with black men, 
and "Kunta Kinte" was a fairly heroic figure, having survived the Middle 
Passage to become an ancestor of Alex Haley, who told his story in *Roots* 
(which became a milestone TV miniseries in the early 1970s), so it's odd to 
see it described as offensive (= derogatory).

Urban Dictionary is rarely a reliable source for anything!

(Not to mention the misuse of "unit of measurement" to mean 'generic'.)

> Searching for .uk websites mentioning "tyrone" results, of course, in a
> long list of County Tyrone references.
> 
> However, in the West of England is a business named "Tyrone Snell
> Trailers" (slogan 'putting trailers behind you for 30 years'). The
> founder appears to have been a Tyrone Snell.
> http://tyronesnelltrailers.co.uk/about-us/
> 
>     Ivor  Kneller
>     
>     Ivor took over the business when Tyrone Snell retired in August,
>     2009. With a background in sales and marketing Ivor has an
>     enthusiasm for his subject and enjoys the cut and thrust of dealing
>     with customers. When not at work Ivor enjoys being a RIBster and
>     doing the odd bit of fishing from his boat.

Does RIBster mean anything beyond Mr Snell's immediate circle?

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#577668

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2015-12-28 09:52 -0500
Message-ID<7ri28b1nsupb3rde944qqk2r0hckb8pp9e@4ax.com>
In reply to#577664
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 06:41:37 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 8:57:16 AM UTC-5, PeterWD wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 13:19:22 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
>> <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 3:16:43 PM UTC-5, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
>> >> On Sunday, 27 December 2015 18:40:55 UTC, Peter T. Daniels  wrote:
>
>> >> > applications with "obviously black" names like Tyrone and Shaniqua 
>> >> > are responded to significantly less than ones with non-identifiable names. 
>> >> Are those "obviously black" names, or just chavvy?
>> >They're obviously black names, but I've no idea what chavvy is.
>> 
>> The description of "Tyrone" as an "obviously black" name may be limited
>> to its use the US.
>> 
>> Until just now I was completely unaware of this:
>> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tyrone
>> 
>>     Proper noun: Tyrone is the general name for a black male whose true
>>     name is unknown. Unlike offensive generic names, like Toby or Kunta
>>     Kinte, the name Tyrone does not mean to carry an offensive quality.
>>     
>>     Also, the term can be used as a unit of measurment in reference to
>>     black males.
>> 
>>     "Tyrone's got a kickass car over there."
>>     
>>     "Six Tyrones just walked into the party."
>> 
>> AFAIK "Tyrone" isn't used in that or any other generic sense in BrE.
>
>I have no reason to believe it's used in any but the first sentence of the 
>first way here; nor have I heard of "Toby" in any connection with black men, 
>and "Kunta Kinte" was a fairly heroic figure, having survived the Middle 
>Passage to become an ancestor of Alex Haley, who told his story in *Roots* 
>(which became a milestone TV miniseries in the early 1970s), so it's odd to 
>see it described as offensive (= derogatory).
>
>Urban Dictionary is rarely a reliable source for anything!
>
>(Not to mention the misuse of "unit of measurement" to mean 'generic'.)
>
>> Searching for .uk websites mentioning "tyrone" results, of course, in a
>> long list of County Tyrone references.
>> 
>> However, in the West of England is a business named "Tyrone Snell
>> Trailers" (slogan 'putting trailers behind you for 30 years'). The
>> founder appears to have been a Tyrone Snell.
>> http://tyronesnelltrailers.co.uk/about-us/
>> 
>>     Ivor  Kneller
>>     
>>     Ivor took over the business when Tyrone Snell retired in August,
>>     2009. With a background in sales and marketing Ivor has an
>>     enthusiasm for his subject and enjoys the cut and thrust of dealing
>>     with customers. When not at work Ivor enjoys being a RIBster and
>>     doing the odd bit of fishing from his boat.
>
>Does RIBster mean anything beyond Mr Snell's immediate circle?

Of course.  A "RIB" is an rigid inflatable boat.  Anyone who has
watched boat races or surfing contests knows of them.  The safety
people and photographers scoot around the contestants like water bugs
on their RIBs.

You're forgiven, though.  Boat races and surfing contests are well out
of cat-swinging distance from Jersey City.  
-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

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#577677

From"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net>
Date2015-12-28 08:38 -0800
Message-ID<9135c0de-88a6-4a02-a3c8-9efc08f40fa4@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#577668
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 9:52:59 AM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 06:41:37 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
> <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 8:57:16 AM UTC-5, PeterWD wrote:
> >> On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 13:19:22 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> >On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 3:16:43 PM UTC-5, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
> >> >> On Sunday, 27 December 2015 18:40:55 UTC, Peter T. Daniels  wrote:

> >> >> > applications with "obviously black" names like Tyrone and Shaniqua 
> >> >> > are responded to significantly less than ones with non-identifiable names. 
> >> >> Are those "obviously black" names, or just chavvy?
> >> >They're obviously black names, but I've no idea what chavvy is. 
> >> The description of "Tyrone" as an "obviously black" name may be limited
> >> to its use the US.
> >> Until just now I was completely unaware of this:
> >> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tyrone
> >>     Proper noun: Tyrone is the general name for a black male whose true
> >>     name is unknown. Unlike offensive generic names, like Toby or Kunta
> >>     Kinte, the name Tyrone does not mean to carry an offensive quality.     
> >>     Also, the term can be used as a unit of measurment in reference to
> >>     black males. 
> >>     "Tyrone's got a kickass car over there."    
> >>     "Six Tyrones just walked into the party."
> >> AFAIK "Tyrone" isn't used in that or any other generic sense in BrE.
> >I have no reason to believe it's used in any but the first sentence of the 
> >first way here; nor have I heard of "Toby" in any connection with black men, 
> >and "Kunta Kinte" was a fairly heroic figure, having survived the Middle 
> >Passage to become an ancestor of Alex Haley, who told his story in *Roots* 
> >(which became a milestone TV miniseries in the early 1970s), so it's odd to 
> >see it described as offensive (= derogatory).
> >Urban Dictionary is rarely a reliable source for anything!
> >(Not to mention the misuse of "unit of measurement" to mean 'generic'.)
> >> Searching for .uk websites mentioning "tyrone" results, of course, in a
> >> long list of County Tyrone references.
> >> However, in the West of England is a business named "Tyrone Snell
> >> Trailers" (slogan 'putting trailers behind you for 30 years'). The
> >> founder appears to have been a Tyrone Snell.
> >> http://tyronesnelltrailers.co.uk/about-us/
> >>     Ivor  Kneller    
> >>     Ivor took over the business when Tyrone Snell retired in August,
> >>     2009. With a background in sales and marketing Ivor has an
> >>     enthusiasm for his subject and enjoys the cut and thrust of dealing
> >>     with customers. When not at work Ivor enjoys being a RIBster and
> >>     doing the odd bit of fishing from his boat.
> >Does RIBster mean anything beyond Mr Snell's immediate circle?
> 
> Of course.  A "RIB" is an rigid inflatable boat.  Anyone who has
> watched boat races or surfing contests knows of them.  The safety
> people and photographers scoot around the contestants like water bugs
> on their RIBs.

Which of those do you suppose Mr Snell is?

> You're forgiven, though.  Boat races and surfing contests are well out
> of [obscenity] distance from Jersey City.  

Do try to keep up. On the 70-something-degree Christmas Eve last week, the 
surfers took to the Atlantic breakers -- off the Jersey Shore, which lent 
its name to a "reality" show that you took to be a documentary -- and they 
were featured on national news programs.

You can see many, many surfers in our ocean throughout the surfing season, 
which does not normally extend to December.

A couple weeks ago, my doctor was telling me about her high school son's 
exploits on the J.V. crew -- they regularly participate in regattas in 
Connecticut and on the Schuylkill; their practice course is in the Passaic
River -- and this season he's been promoted to the varsity, very unusual 
for a sophomore, and they have a weekend meet all the way up in Saratoga.

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#577692

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2015-12-28 13:26 -0500
Message-ID<u7v28bdc1lbqd1mf376iuvu2p5ak844sti@4ax.com>
In reply to#577677
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 08:38:07 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

>> >>     Ivor  Kneller    
>> >>     Ivor took over the business when Tyrone Snell retired in August,
>> >>     2009. With a background in sales and marketing Ivor has an
>> >>     enthusiasm for his subject and enjoys the cut and thrust of dealing
>> >>     with customers. When not at work Ivor enjoys being a RIBster and
>> >>     doing the odd bit of fishing from his boat.
>> >Does RIBster mean anything beyond Mr Snell's immediate circle?
>> 
>> Of course.  A "RIB" is an rigid inflatable boat.  Anyone who has
>> watched boat races or surfing contests knows of them.  The safety
>> people and photographers scoot around the contestants like water bugs
>> on their RIBs.
>
>Which of those do you suppose Mr Snell is?

It is Mr Kneller, not Mr Snell, that is the RIBster.  Since he lives
in or near Penryn, Cornwall, I assume he boats on the Penryn River.
Here's a video of a RIBster on the Penryn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsAguw4IKs
>
>> You're forgiven, though.  Boat races and surfing contests are well out
>> of [obscenity] distance from Jersey City.  

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

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#577736

From"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net>
Date2015-12-28 22:19 +0000
Message-ID<ead38b1bcnuhc4gvh570iltcdeh56kg55d@4ax.com>
In reply to#577692
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:26:08 -0500, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 08:38:07 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
><grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>> >>     Ivor  Kneller    
>>> >>     Ivor took over the business when Tyrone Snell retired in August,
>>> >>     2009. With a background in sales and marketing Ivor has an
>>> >>     enthusiasm for his subject and enjoys the cut and thrust of dealing
>>> >>     with customers. When not at work Ivor enjoys being a RIBster and
>>> >>     doing the odd bit of fishing from his boat.
>>> >Does RIBster mean anything beyond Mr Snell's immediate circle?
>>> 
>>> Of course.  A "RIB" is an rigid inflatable boat.  Anyone who has
>>> watched boat races or surfing contests knows of them.  The safety
>>> people and photographers scoot around the contestants like water bugs
>>> on their RIBs.
>>
>>Which of those do you suppose Mr Snell is?
>
>It is Mr Kneller, not Mr Snell, that is the RIBster.  Since he lives
>in or near Penryn, Cornwall, I assume he boats on the Penryn River.
>Here's a video of a RIBster on the Penryn.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsAguw4IKs
>>

RIB info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid-hulled_inflatable_boat


-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

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#577743

FromTony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com>
Date2015-12-28 17:47 -0500
Message-ID<ite38b9b4l4bb4sv3blt3431lvfab2bcam@4ax.com>
In reply to#577736
On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 22:19:53 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:26:08 -0500, Tony Cooper
><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 08:38:07 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
>><grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> >>     Ivor  Kneller    
>>>> >>     Ivor took over the business when Tyrone Snell retired in August,
>>>> >>     2009. With a background in sales and marketing Ivor has an
>>>> >>     enthusiasm for his subject and enjoys the cut and thrust of dealing
>>>> >>     with customers. When not at work Ivor enjoys being a RIBster and
>>>> >>     doing the odd bit of fishing from his boat.
>>>> >Does RIBster mean anything beyond Mr Snell's immediate circle?
>>>> 
>>>> Of course.  A "RIB" is an rigid inflatable boat.  Anyone who has
>>>> watched boat races or surfing contests knows of them.  The safety
>>>> people and photographers scoot around the contestants like water bugs
>>>> on their RIBs.
>>>
>>>Which of those do you suppose Mr Snell is?
>>
>>It is Mr Kneller, not Mr Snell, that is the RIBster.  Since he lives
>>in or near Penryn, Cornwall, I assume he boats on the Penryn River.
>>Here's a video of a RIBster on the Penryn.
>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsAguw4IKs
>>>
>
>RIB info here:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid-hulled_inflatable_boat


We needn't bother posting links.  The Aggressive Questioner asks, but
never pursues the answer.

-- 
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

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#577807

From"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net>
Date2015-12-28 19:58 -0800
Message-ID<5b065f92-db83-45dd-80a2-75fdbc8704fe@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#577743
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 5:47:18 PM UTC-5, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 22:19:53 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
> <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> >On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:26:08 -0500, Tony Cooper
> ><tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>On Mon, 28 Dec 2015 08:38:07 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
> >><grammatim@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>>> >>     Ivor  Kneller    
> >>>> >>     Ivor took over the business when Tyrone Snell retired in August,
> >>>> >>     2009. With a background in sales and marketing Ivor has an
> >>>> >>     enthusiasm for his subject and enjoys the cut and thrust of dealing
> >>>> >>     with customers. When not at work Ivor enjoys being a RIBster and
> >>>> >>     doing the odd bit of fishing from his boat.
> >>>> >Does RIBster mean anything beyond Mr Snell's immediate circle?
> >>>> Of course.  A "RIB" is an rigid inflatable boat.  Anyone who has
> >>>> watched boat races or surfing contests knows of them.  The safety
> >>>> people and photographers scoot around the contestants like water bugs
> >>>> on their RIBs.
> >>>Which of those do you suppose Mr Snell is?
> >>It is Mr Kneller, not Mr Snell, that is the RIBster.  Since he lives
> >>in or near Penryn, Cornwall, I assume he boats on the Penryn River.
> >>Here's a video of a RIBster on the Penryn.
> >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsAguw4IKs
> >
> >RIB info here:
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid-hulled_inflatable_boat
> 
> We needn't bother posting links.  The Aggressive Questioner asks, but
> never pursues the answer.

Why would it need "pursuing"? Are you suggesting that PWD -- who provided 
the answer well before you -- is unreliable?

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#577532

From"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <mail@peterduncanson.net>
Date2015-12-27 22:26 +0000
Message-ID<l6p08b1slaq7i3302sngqgp1b0f5t6m8ag@4ax.com>
In reply to#577485
On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 12:16:39 -0800 (PST), spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com
wrote:

>On Sunday, 27 December 2015 18:40:55 UTC, Peter T. Daniels  wrote:
>> applications with "obviously black" names like Tyrone and Shaniqua 
>> are responded to significantly less than ones with non-identifiable names. 
>
>Are those "obviously black" names, or just chavvy?
>
"Chavs" like Tyrone Power and Tyrone Guthrie?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Power

    Tyrone Edmund Power, Jr. (May 5, 1914 – November 15, 1958), was an
    American film and stage actor. From 1930s to the 1950s Power
    appeared in dozens of films, often in swashbuckler roles or romantic
    leads. His better-known films include The Mark of Zorro, Blood and
    Sand, The Black Swan, Prince of Foxes, Witness For The Prosecution,
    The Black Rose, and Captain from Castile. Power's favorite film that
    he starred in was Nightmare Alley.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrone_Guthrie

    Sir William Tyrone Guthrie (2 July 1900 – 15 May 1971) was an
    English theatrical director instrumental in the founding of the
    Stratford Festival of Canada, the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis,
    Minnesota, and the Tyrone Guthrie Centre at his family's ancestral
    home, Annaghmakerrig, near Newbliss in County Monaghan, Ireland. 

-- 
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

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#577595

FromPeter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org.invalid>
Date2015-12-28 20:23 +1100
Message-ID<n5qutm$fku$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#577485
On 2015-Dec-28 07:16, spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com wrote:
> On Sunday, 27 December 2015 18:40:55 UTC, Peter T. Daniels  wrote:
>> applications with "obviously black" names like Tyrone and Shaniqua 
>> are responded to significantly less than ones with non-identifiable names. 
> 
> Are those "obviously black" names, or just chavvy?

That's an important question, but isn't it true that "chav" is a British
term that has not travelled much beyond those islands? Looking further
on, I see that PTD didn't even know what it meant, and thought it was a
racial slur.

In Australia, I strongly suspect that people with "probably bogan" names
are not taken as seriously as they otherwise would have been. Those
parents who make a thing of giving silly-sounding or misspelled names to
their babies don't seem to understand how badly they are hurting the
future careers of their children.

-- 
Peter Moylan                           http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

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#577628

FromCheryl <cperkins@mun.ca>
Date2015-12-28 08:45 -0330
Message-ID<decne5F8sopU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#577595
On 2015-12-28 5:53 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 2015-Dec-28 07:16, spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, 27 December 2015 18:40:55 UTC, Peter T. Daniels  wrote:
>>> applications with "obviously black" names like Tyrone and Shaniqua
>>> are responded to significantly less than ones with non-identifiable names.
>>
>> Are those "obviously black" names, or just chavvy?
>
> That's an important question, but isn't it true that "chav" is a British
> term that has not travelled much beyond those islands? Looking further
> on, I see that PTD didn't even know what it meant, and thought it was a
> racial slur.
>
> In Australia, I strongly suspect that people with "probably bogan" names
> are not taken as seriously as they otherwise would have been. Those
> parents who make a thing of giving silly-sounding or misspelled names to
> their babies don't seem to understand how badly they are hurting the
> future careers of their children.
>
I think there have been studies in North America as well showing that 
people with fanciful or otherwise unusual names don't get taken 
seriously, from social class rather than strictly racial assumptions. 
Based on strictly anecdotal evidence (I don't remember reading any 
recent studies), this does seem to be changing slowly for some names, 
given to middle-class children after the fashion for odd names, 
particularly for girls, spread, and those children grew up and moved 
into responsible positions so that now some names considered low-class 
forty years ago are much more mainstream.

It used to be considered proper years ago to give children formal, 
serious names, often after older relatives names along the same 
principles, and even if the children were actually called by some odd 
nickname. After all, they might prefer a formal traditional name, or be 
taken more seriously with one, as adults.

-- 
Cheryl

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#577659

FromHVS <usenet@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
Date2015-12-28 14:31 +0000
Message-ID<XnsA57E93D5BF2E5whhvans@178.63.61.145>
In reply to#577628
On 28 Dec 2015, Cheryl wrote

-snip-
> 
> It used to be considered proper years ago to give children formal, 
> serious names, often after older relatives names along the same 
> principles, and even if the children were actually called by some odd 
> nickname. After all, they might prefer a formal traditional name, or be 
> taken more seriously with one, as adults.

There's certainly been a huge change in the conventions surrounding 
names/nicknames since IWAL.  There are undoubtedly exceptions, but I'd be 
fairly surprised to find somebody my age (early 60s) to have been christened 
with a nickname -- Jack/Harry/Zac/Beth/Penny/Maggie or such-like.

My parents mentioned one time that if I'd been a girl, they would probably 
have christened me "Penelope" in order to call me "Penny". I don't think the 
idea of christening the child "Penny" would ever have occurred to them.

-- 
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed 



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#577670

FromCheryl <cperkins@mun.ca>
Date2015-12-28 11:53 -0330
Message-ID<ded2fbFbo82U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#577659
On 2015-12-28 11:01 AM, HVS wrote:
> On 28 Dec 2015, Cheryl wrote
>
> -snip-
>>
>> It used to be considered proper years ago to give children formal,
>> serious names, often after older relatives names along the same
>> principles, and even if the children were actually called by some odd
>> nickname. After all, they might prefer a formal traditional name, or be
>> taken more seriously with one, as adults.
>
> There's certainly been a huge change in the conventions surrounding
> names/nicknames since IWAL.  There are undoubtedly exceptions, but I'd be
> fairly surprised to find somebody my age (early 60s) to have been christened
> with a nickname -- Jack/Harry/Zac/Beth/Penny/Maggie or such-like.
>
> My parents mentioned one time that if I'd been a girl, they would probably
> have christened me "Penelope" in order to call me "Penny". I don't think the
> idea of christening the child "Penny" would ever have occurred to them.
>
My mother had strong feelings against nicknames, and also quoted a 
departed priest who had been quite influential in her youth and who 
opposed naming children with anything other than formal names, 
preferably those associated with saints or admirable Biblical 
characters. I suspect my mother was even more influenced by her own 
ideas than those of the priest, though, in this case. My name was never 
shortened, but was certainly new and odd in it's day - and there's no 
Saint Cheryl or biblical Cheryl. My two sisters are both referred to by 
nicknames, one from birth (with a change in early adolescence when she 
rebelled against the baby nickname; the other after she left home, and 
I've never become accustomed to the nickname). My brother was always 
called by his full name, Edward, even as a child, and I think was 
confirmed in his preference for the full version by all the strangers 
who thought this was odd and tried to call him Ed or Eddie.

As the oldest, I was nearly named Edwina (my father was named Edward, 
although he went by a couple of different nicknames, based on his other 
names, to distinguish him from his father Edward). My father objected - 
I think he considered it too odd or old-fashioned. I certainly did, when 
I was old enough to have an opinion.

But on the whole, my mother's desire for children's names that couldn't 
be shortened or give rise to nicknames didn't work out so well.

One of my cousins, presumably baptized by a priest with more modern 
views on naming than the one my mother admired, was named Bonnie Lou. I 
think as she got older, she dropped the "Lou". Most compound names we 
were familiar with had "Mary" in them, and were very traditional - Mary 
Margaret, Mary Ann, Anne-Marie, etc.

Boys' names always seemed to be more conservative than girls'. Perhaps 
boys were expected to grow up to be serious professional men, and girls 
were expected to be frivolous wives and mothers.

-- 
Cheryl

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#577691

FromDavid Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com>
Date2015-12-28 10:18 -0800
Message-ID<33c58c33-ce64-4a39-b443-91fde3de02d0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#577670
On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 7:23:28 AM UTC-8, Cheryl P wrote:
> On 2015-12-28 11:01 AM, HVS wrote:
> > On 28 Dec 2015, Cheryl wrote
> >
> > -snip-
> >>
> >> It used to be considered proper years ago to give children formal,
> >> serious names, often after older relatives names along the same
> >> principles, and even if the children were actually called by some odd
> >> nickname. After all, they might prefer a formal traditional name, or be
> >> taken more seriously with one, as adults.
> >
> > There's certainly been a huge change in the conventions surrounding
> > names/nicknames since IWAL.  There are undoubtedly exceptions, but I'd be
> > fairly surprised to find somebody my age (early 60s) to have been christened
> > with a nickname -- Jack/Harry/Zac/Beth/Penny/Maggie or such-like.
> >
> > My parents mentioned one time that if I'd been a girl, they would probably
> > have christened me "Penelope" in order to call me "Penny". I don't think the
> > idea of christening the child "Penny" would ever have occurred to them.
> >
> My mother had strong feelings against nicknames, and also quoted a 
> departed priest who had been quite influential in her youth and who 
> opposed naming children with anything other than formal names, 
> preferably those associated with saints or admirable Biblical 
> characters. I suspect my mother was even more influenced by her own 
> ideas than those of the priest, though, in this case. My name was never 
> shortened, but was certainly new and odd in it's day - and there's no 
> Saint Cheryl or biblical Cheryl. My two sisters are both referred to by 
> nicknames, one from birth (with a change in early adolescence when she 
> rebelled against the baby nickname; the other after she left home, and 
> I've never become accustomed to the nickname). My brother was always 
> called by his full name, Edward, even as a child, and I think was 
> confirmed in his preference for the full version by all the strangers 
> who thought this was odd and tried to call him Ed or Eddie.
> 
> As the oldest, I was nearly named Edwina (my father was named Edward, 
> although he went by a couple of different nicknames, based on his other 
> names, to distinguish him from his father Edward). My father objected - 
> I think he considered it too odd or old-fashioned. I certainly did, when 
> I was old enough to have an opinion.
> 
> But on the whole, my mother's desire for children's names that couldn't 
> be shortened or give rise to nicknames didn't work out so well.
> 
> One of my cousins, presumably baptized by a priest with more modern 
> views on naming than the one my mother admired, was named Bonnie Lou. I 
> think as she got older, she dropped the "Lou". Most compound names we 
> were familiar with had "Mary" in them, and were very traditional - Mary 
> Margaret, Mary Ann, Anne-Marie, etc.
> 
> Boys' names always seemed to be more conservative than girls'. Perhaps 
> boys were expected to grow up to be serious professional men, and girls 
> were expected to be frivolous wives and mothers.
 
My daughter was named Clare because it was the only name we could
identify that went well with Kleinecke and had a family connection -
a cousin (shirt-tail?) named Clara. But that final "a" had to go.
Fortunately we had no more daughters to name.

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#577699

FromCheryl <cperkins@mun.ca>
Date2015-12-28 15:52 -0330
Message-ID<dedggdFfdjfU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#577691
On 2015-12-28 2:48 PM, David Kleinecke wrote:

> My daughter was named Clare because it was the only name we could
> identify that went well with Kleinecke and had a family connection -
> a cousin (shirt-tail?) named Clara. But that final "a" had to go.
> Fortunately we had no more daughters to name.

Friends of mine had some criticism for naming a daughter Claire because 
a popular saint was named Clare, the name was assumed to be for the 
saint, but the spelling was considered odd.

I don't think nowadays anyone would consider that an odd name.



-- 
Cheryl

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