Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > alt.usage.english > #1152180 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-14 15:18 +1100 |
| Last post | 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 263 — 41 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.usage.english
Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 15:18 +1100
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-14 09:21 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 18:31 +1100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-14 11:11 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-10-16 06:53 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:54 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-10-16 07:59 +1100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:04 +0200
the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 10:01 +0200
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
Re: the fact that Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:25 +0800
Re: the fact that Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-17 12:20 +0200
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-17 13:57 +0100
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-17 14:21 +0100
Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:17 +0100
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 16:30 +0000
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:14 +0100
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:50 +0000
Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-23 14:07 +0100
Re: the fact that Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 15:51 +0200
Re: the fact that Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 09:44 +1100
Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 15:05 +0200
Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:44 +0100
Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 16:33 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:59 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:57 +0200
Re: the fact that richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-18 18:29 +0000
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 00:33 +0200
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 06:30 +0000
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:05 +0800
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 13:04 +0000
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:25 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-15 06:21 +0000
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:43 +0100
Re: Fat books John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-14 08:02 -0700
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:46 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 15:02 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:46 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 21:48 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 21:57 +0200
Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 10:07 +0530
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-18 10:33 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 12:30 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-18 19:22 +0100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 12:59 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 00:53 +0100
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:35 -0400
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:21 +0100
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 20:14 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:59 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 10:56 -0400
Re: Fat books ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-21 15:33 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 23:34 +0800
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 18:29 -0400
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 10:46 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-22 14:36 +1100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 22:25 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:54 +0100
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 17:40 -0400
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:52 +0800
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-22 20:06 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-23 07:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-23 10:00 +0100
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-22 17:33 -0300
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 16:41 -0400
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-23 00:43 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-23 13:32 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 00:22 +0800
Re: Fat books Carlo XYZ <carloxyz@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-23 21:50 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 07:00 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 08:10 +0100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-24 11:38 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:50 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 18:07 +0800
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-24 09:13 -0400
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 17:27 +0100
Re: Fat books Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-10-24 21:18 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:17 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:22 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:36 +0000
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:38 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 04:25 +0800
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-24 21:35 -0700
Re: Fat books squalk <sq@net.invalid> - 2026-10-25 20:34 +0000
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-25 14:56 -0700
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:10 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 11:18 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:30 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 18:18 +0800
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-25 18:09 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-26 05:47 +0000
Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-26 10:56 +0000
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-24 14:23 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-21 20:13 +0100
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 14:30 -0400
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-21 21:26 +0200
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 10:53 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-16 03:42 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:18 +0100
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:18 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 19:40 +1300
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:19 +1100
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 23:32 +1300
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 16:00 +1300
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 17:01 +1300
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 09:27 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 04:02 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 17:55 +1300
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 10:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:48 +0800
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-14 20:02 -0300
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-15 08:19 +0200
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-15 16:09 -0300
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:56 +0800
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:09 +0200
Re: Fat books richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-16 09:03 +0000
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-16 10:27 +0100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 12:22 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 11:05 +0100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:34 +0100
Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 16:44 +0000
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:21 +0000
Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 17:46 +0000
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-14 18:15 +0000
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-14 20:37 +0200
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 21:40 +0100
Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-14 23:19 +0100
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:42 +0200
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-15 08:48 +0100
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:34 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-15 16:57 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:01 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:06 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 12:15 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-14 20:16 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:49 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:33 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 22:00 +0800
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:35 +0000
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-16 10:49 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:37 +1100
Ferraro's Programmer's Guide to the EGA, VGA, and Super VGA Cards (was: Re: Fat books) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:29 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:33 +0800
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 13:49 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:49 +1100
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-16 11:28 -0400
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-16 09:33 -0700
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-17 06:35 +0100
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 11:47 -0700
Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-17 12:54 -0600
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:38 -0700
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 23:07 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 18:14 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:33 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 21:02 +1300
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 21:22 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:42 -0700
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:42 -0400
Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 14:48 -0600
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-18 20:48 -0400
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:56 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:53 -0700
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:39 -0400
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 15:07 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:51 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:06 +1100
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:45 -0400
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:54 -0700
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 11:44 +0200
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-19 15:42 -0400
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:53 +1100
Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-18 22:18 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 18:43 +1300
Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-19 22:03 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 18:37 +1300
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 09:30 +1100
Re: Fat books Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:15 -0400
Re: Fat books "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2026-10-19 23:08 +1100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:28 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:33 +0800
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:45 +0100
Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 20:06 +0530
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:40 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-20 08:33 +1100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:04 +0800
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-19 18:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:55 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:37 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:43 +0800
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:39 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-20 07:01 +0100
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-20 08:57 +0100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:42 +0100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 12:23 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:56 +0100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-21 09:17 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 20:51 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:51 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:58 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 14:00 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 22:06 +0800
Re: Fat books Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 01:01 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:38 +0800
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:18 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:02 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 15:15 +0100
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:05 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:28 -0700
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:14 -0400
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 19:15 +0000
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 12:43 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:29 -0700
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 18:32 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-22 12:02 +1300
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-21 20:35 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:28 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:44 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 01:49 +0800
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:59 -0700
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:13 -0400
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-20 09:13 -0700
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 09:53 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 11:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:48 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 17:25 +1100
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 19:19 -0400
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:50 -0700
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:59 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:46 +0800
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0400
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:48 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:04 +0800
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400
Page 9 of 14 — ← Prev page 1 … 7 8 [9] 10 11 … 14 Next page →
| From | Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-16 09:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <11atjkh$3f58b$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152389 |
On 10/16/2026 8:28 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote: > Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> wrote: >>> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point, >>> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the >>> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take >>> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one short >>> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the >>> characters in the story are complaining about the padding. > > Proposed explanation: > > 1. The author is being paid by the word > 2. The author knows he is padding things out and that the reader knows he > is padding things out and has a sense of humor about it. > >>> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it >>> to about one third of its length. > > Why would they do that when they are trying to fill out a magazine? Cut > the story down and you'll have to find other stories to get your page count > back. > >>> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen >>> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier >>> writing. > > It is a common problem. On the other hand, the books that L. Ron Hubbard > wrote after his death are mostly better than the ones he wrote while living. > --scott > That's really not saying much. (And yes, I did read them way back when.) -- I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky dirty old man.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 06:35 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <njgfpjF77slU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1152180 |
Le 14/10/2026 à 05:18, Peter Moylan a écrit : > > I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself annoyed. > > I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the > worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the > padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader. > > Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point, > Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the > characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take > half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort > paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the > characters in the story are complaining about the padding. > > A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it > to about one third of its length. > > I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen > comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier > writing. > > It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to > being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with > it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up > any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to > read because their books are too thick. > > But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books > don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to > complain about this? I don't think fat books are anything new, but they must earn and keep the reader's attention; waffle is not good. I'm fond of Dumas père for this reason - his books are long, but there's always something going on. I recently reread 'Joseph Balsamo', which at 450k words is about as long as six standard novels; at no time was I bored. I'm reminded of the Readers' Rights listed by Pennac in 'Comme un roman', which (if memory serves) include to skip passages, not to like classic books, and to give up on a book - there are plenty more books to choose from. Also of Stefan Zweig, who pruned and pruned, so that even his one novel, 'Beware of Pity', bowls one along breathlessly. As a reader, I've mined that seam, though, and I'm afraid it's no use expecting any new works from him now.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 11:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD3C2CC.475F@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152180 |
Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself annoyed.
>
> I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the
> worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the
> padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader.
>
> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point,
> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the
> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take
> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort
> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the
> characters in the story are complaining about the padding.
>
> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it
> to about one third of its length.
>
> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen
> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier
> writing.
>
> It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to
> being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with
> it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up
> any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to
> read because their books are too thick.
>
> But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books
> don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to
> complain about this?
>
> --
> Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
> Newcastle, NSW
This is not literary criticism. It is a self-indulgent tantrum from a
reader who confuses personal irritation with objective analysis and then
tries to inflate it into an industry-wide conspiracy.
You mistake dialogue for padding and call it proof. Quoting one
character telling another to get to the point does not demonstrate
authorial failure. It demonstrates a character who is frustrated.
Treating in-story dialogue as a meta-confession by Asimov is the
critical equivalent of believing a novel’s villain is the author’s
autobiography.
"Could have been cut to one-third" is pure assertion without a
single concrete cut. You offer zero page counts, zero scene breakdowns,
zero demonstration that removing two-thirds would leave a coherent plot,
character arc, or thematic payoff. That is not editing advice. That is
fantasy surgery performed with a chainsaw and no anatomy knowledge.
You leap from one book you dislike to a sweeping claim about
Asimov’s later career and reputation. "I’ve seen comments" is anecdotal
garbage. No sales data, no critical consensus metrics, no comparison of
contemporaneous reviews versus later ones. You are treating your own
annoyance as a proxy for market and critical judgment.
The "paid by the page" explanation is historically illiterate.
Modern trade publishing does not pay authors by the page or by the word
in the way pulp magazines once did. Advances and royalties are based on
projected sales and contract terms, not length. Blaming "payment by the
page" for 1980s–90s hardcovers is simply wrong.
You treat thickness as an automatic quality defect. Many of the most
commercially and critically successful novels of the last fifty years
are long. Length is not the variable; density and necessity are. You
never distinguish between the two.
You assume that every reader shares your patience threshold and that
anything exceeding it is objectively padded. You assume publishers have
abandoned editing because books are long, ignoring the existence of
developmental editors, copy editors, and the commercial reality that
certain audiences buy thick books precisely because they want immersion.
You assume declining sales (if real) are caused by length rather than
competing media, changing leisure habits, price, or content. You never
admit the possibility that Robots and Empire was written at that length
because Asimov chose to expand the political and historical scope of his
universe rather than because he was padding for money.
Readers who buy series finales and late-career works by established
authors often want more of the same world, not less. Publishers know
this; they are not stupid. Editors who routinely gut bestselling
authors’ manuscripts risk losing the author and the revenue. Your
preferred "one-third length" version would have to sell to the same
audience that already accepted the longer book. Competitors and
imitators in science fiction have thrived with both lean and expansive
styles. Your refusal to read thick books is a personal filter, not a
market signal that forces publishers to change.
Asimov’s later novels sold in large numbers despite (or because of)
their length. The physical and economic constraints of publishing do not
make long books inherently unprofitable; paper, printing, and
distribution costs scale, but so can price and perceived value. Your
claim that "books don’t sell as well as they used to" is too vague to
test and ignores category differences, format shifts (ebooks,
audiobooks), and the fact that some long books still move hundreds of
thousands of copies. A single reader’s irritation does not scale into
industry failure.
The entire causal chain—character dialogue equals authorial padding
equals payment incentives equals editorial collapse equals sales
decline—must be discarded. Replace it with actual textual analysis of
specific scenes that fail to advance plot, character, or theme,
supported by evidence rather than feelings. The industry diagnosis must
be rebuilt from contracts, sales data, and editorial practice rather
than nostalgia and anecdote.
Nothing of structural value survives. The observation that some late
Asimov is less tight than early Asimov is a commonplace, not an insight
you originated or substantiated.
You are not diagnosing a publishing disease. You are complaining that a
book refused to finish at the exact moment your personal tolerance
expired, then dressing the complaint up as systemic critique.
The Swarmmaker Fleet
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge the unchallengeable.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 12:54 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <11b0g92$grpc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152448 |
The Starmaker wrote: > Peter Moylan wrote: >> >> I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself annoyed. >> >> I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the >> worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the >> padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader. >> >> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point, >> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the >> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take >> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort >> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the >> characters in the story are complaining about the padding. >> >> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it >> to about one third of its length. >> >> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen >> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier >> writing. >> >> It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to >> being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with >> it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up >> any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to >> read because their books are too thick. >> >> But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books >> don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to >> complain about this? >> >> -- >> Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org >> Newcastle, NSW > > > > This is not literary criticism. It is a self-indulgent tantrum from a > reader who confuses personal irritation with objective analysis and then > tries to inflate it into an industry-wide conspiracy. > > You mistake dialogue for padding and call it proof. Quoting one > character telling another to get to the point does not demonstrate > authorial failure. It demonstrates a character who is frustrated. > Treating in-story dialogue as a meta-confession by Asimov is the > critical equivalent of believing a novel’s villain is the author’s > autobiography. one character may not demonstrate the failure he is referring to, but it struck a chord with me. Try getting very far into the followups in Stephen R. Donaldson's space opera with Angus Thermopyle. It's just like this and of such badness that it reminds one of someone using copy-paste, but with an AI to twist up the words slightly so that it can't be labeled that simply. The reader just doesn't need that many similar brushups on what happened last novel. I set it down before finishing. -- Can you strip away so we may start again? "There’s a switch and they don't seem authentic or themselves. It feels like I’m an unnecessary body and it’s a waste of time to even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <11b0mhq$ihhg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152449 |
> The Starmaker wrote: >> Peter Moylan wrote: >>> >>> I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself >>> annoyed. >>> >>> I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the >>> worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the >>> padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader. >>> >>> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point, >>> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the >>> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take >>> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort >>> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the >>> characters in the story are complaining about the padding. >>> >>> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it >>> to about one third of its length. >>> >>> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen >>> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier >>> writing. >>> >>> It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to >>> being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with >>> it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up >>> any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to >>> read because their books are too thick. >>> >>> But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books >>> don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to >>> complain about this? >>> >>> -- >>> Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org >>> Newcastle, NSW >> >> >> >> This is not literary criticism. It is a self-indulgent tantrum from a >> reader who confuses personal irritation with objective analysis and then >> tries to inflate it into an industry-wide conspiracy. >> >> You mistake dialogue for padding and call it proof. Quoting one >> character telling another to get to the point does not demonstrate >> authorial failure. It demonstrates a character who is frustrated. Perhaps you misread Peter Moylan's comment. The quote from the character in his post above was made because it succinctly stated his impression of the book at the time he was reading and not an example to back up his criticism. (That is how I saw it.) >> Treating in-story dialogue as a meta-confession by Asimov is the >> critical equivalent of believing a novel’s villain is the author’s >> autobiography.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD45A20.55FF@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152449 |
Let's stop with all dis science fiction stuff.. Mars is not a planet! There is no reason to go to Mars because Mars is not a planet! It's just a rock. No different from the Moon. Mars is just a balancing system to keep the Earth on course.. and from flying away to some freeway. Blaine wrote: > > The Starmaker wrote: > > Peter Moylan wrote: > >> > >> I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself annoyed. > >> > >> I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the > >> worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the > >> padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader. > >> > >> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point, > >> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the > >> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take > >> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort > >> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the > >> characters in the story are complaining about the padding. > >> > >> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it > >> to about one third of its length. > >> > >> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen > >> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier > >> writing. > >> > >> It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to > >> being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with > >> it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up > >> any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to > >> read because their books are too thick. > >> > >> But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books > >> don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to > >> complain about this? > >> > >> -- > >> Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org > >> Newcastle, NSW > > > > > > > > This is not literary criticism. It is a self-indulgent tantrum from a > > reader who confuses personal irritation with objective analysis and then > > tries to inflate it into an industry-wide conspiracy. > > > > You mistake dialogue for padding and call it proof. Quoting one > > character telling another to get to the point does not demonstrate > > authorial failure. It demonstrates a character who is frustrated. > > Treating in-story dialogue as a meta-confession by Asimov is the > > critical equivalent of believing a novel’s villain is the author’s > > autobiography. > > one character may not demonstrate the failure he is referring to, but it > struck a chord with me. Try getting very far into the followups in > Stephen R. Donaldson's space opera with Angus Thermopyle. It's just like > this and of such badness that it reminds one of someone using > copy-paste, but with an AI to twist up the words slightly so that it > can't be labeled that simply. The reader just doesn't need that many > similar brushups on what happened last novel. I set it down before > finishing. > > -- > Can you strip away so we may start again? > "There’s a switch and they don't > seem authentic or themselves. It > feels like I’m an unnecessary > body and it’s a waste of time to > even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine. -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 22:38 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD45B5D.570A@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152474 |
I never read a fiction book and I certaintly never read a science fiction book That's like giving a 3 year old LSD. Who do you think reads science fiction books? People who want to go to Mars! Fiction and science fiction... that's a fucking double wammy!!! Give the kid a half a tab of LSD. The Starmaker wrote: > > Let's stop with all dis science fiction stuff.. > Mars is not a planet! > > There is no reason to go to Mars because > Mars is not a planet! > > It's just a rock. > > No different from the Moon. > > Mars is just a balancing system > to keep the Earth on course.. > and from flying away to some freeway. > > Blaine wrote: > > > > The Starmaker wrote: > > > Peter Moylan wrote: > > >> > > >> I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself annoyed. > > >> > > >> I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the > > >> worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the > > >> padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader. > > >> > > >> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point, > > >> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the > > >> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take > > >> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort > > >> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the > > >> characters in the story are complaining about the padding. > > >> > > >> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it > > >> to about one third of its length. > > >> > > >> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen > > >> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier > > >> writing. > > >> > > >> It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to > > >> being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with > > >> it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up > > >> any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to > > >> read because their books are too thick. > > >> > > >> But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books > > >> don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to > > >> complain about this? > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org > > >> Newcastle, NSW > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not literary criticism. It is a self-indulgent tantrum from a > > > reader who confuses personal irritation with objective analysis and then > > > tries to inflate it into an industry-wide conspiracy. > > > > > > You mistake dialogue for padding and call it proof. Quoting one > > > character telling another to get to the point does not demonstrate > > > authorial failure. It demonstrates a character who is frustrated. > > > Treating in-story dialogue as a meta-confession by Asimov is the > > > critical equivalent of believing a novel’s villain is the author’s > > > autobiography. > > > > one character may not demonstrate the failure he is referring to, but it > > struck a chord with me. Try getting very far into the followups in > > Stephen R. Donaldson's space opera with Angus Thermopyle. It's just like > > this and of such badness that it reminds one of someone using > > copy-paste, but with an AI to twist up the words slightly so that it > > can't be labeled that simply. The reader just doesn't need that many > > similar brushups on what happened last novel. I set it down before > > finishing. > > > > -- > > Can you strip away so we may start again? > > "There’s a switch and they don't > > seem authentic or themselves. It > > feels like I’m an unnecessary > > body and it’s a waste of time to > > even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine. > > -- > The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, > to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, > and challenge the unchallengeable. -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-17 23:07 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <11b1nna$st4l$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152475 |
On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > I never read a fiction book > and I certaintly never read > a science fiction book Nor do ever appear to even cracked any book especially not even one on classical physicw. > > That's like giving a > 3 year old LSD. Believe me you seem ignorant of drugs and giving anyone incapable of consent any drug even legal ones except by physician's prescription or parental directions > > > Who do you think reads > science fiction books? People > who want to go to Mars! No! Not Mars but certainly not 1950's Earth. We wanted to go to the stars if you have ever watch the TV show Star Trek and its enlargements that was want we wanted. > > Fiction and > science fiction... > that's a fucking double wammy!!! > > Give the kid a half a tab of LSD. > > > The Starmaker wrote: >> >> Let's stop with all dis science fiction stuff.. >> Mars is not a planet! >> >> There is no reason to go to Mars because >> Mars is not a planet! >> >> It's just a rock. So is the Earth but the Earth got infected with Life and certain conditions and if not imported perhaps from other infected rocks eventually Life Evolved and here we are. Thank you rock, Thank you Moon and Sun and the rest of the Universe because without Time and Space where would we be? If you do not read Science Fiction books and you post off topic here you must be a troll and I call on all good users to cast you out... At 89 I got no more time for you...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 18:14 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <11b1rl3$u1l3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152476 |
[relativity.crackpots snipped] On 18/10/26 17:07, BobbieSellers wrote: > > So is the Earth but the Earth got infected > with Life and certain conditions and if not imported > perhaps from other infected rocks eventually Life > Evolved and here we are. Thank you rock, Thank you > Moon and Sun and the rest of the Universe because > without Time and Space where would we be? That sounds like a Bokononist prayer. -- Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org Newcastle, NSW
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 07:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <11b2lb8$178mj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152477 |
On 10/18/26 00:14, Peter Moylan wrote: > [relativity.crackpots snipped] > > On 18/10/26 17:07, BobbieSellers wrote: >> >> So is the Earth but the Earth got infected >> with Life and certain conditions and if not imported >> perhaps from other infected rocks eventually Life >> Evolved and here we are. Thank you rock, Thank you >> Moon and Sun and the rest of the Universe because >> without Time and Space where would we be? > > That sounds like a Bokononist prayer. > Maybe it is. I am not though a Bokononist. But without Time and Space where would we be? Time is best represented in human Mythos by Kali, Space by Nuit. Hare Kali, Hare Nuit, Kali, Kali, Hare, Hare, Nuit, Nuit, Hare, Hare, repeat ad lib. Neither a Hindu, Buddhist, Abrahamic Religion follow but maybe Cosmic Shinto perhaps... Be thankful and show it in dance and song... bliss- study, practice, experience
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 21:02 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <11b1ufv$uq18$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152476 |
On 18/10/2026 19:07, BobbieSellers wrote: > On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > If you do not read Science Fiction books and > you post off topic here you must be a troll and I call > on all good users to cast you out... Starmaker used to be a daily poster here and whilst initially amusing, most people will have binned it already but still see its posts when replied to. > At 89 I got no more time for you... Even if you were 8 or 9 you wouldn't.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 21:22 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <11b26l1$11ncn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152479 |
[sci.crackpots snipped] On 18/10/26 19:02, Titus G wrote: > On 18/10/2026 19:07, BobbieSellers wrote: >> On 10/17/26 22:38, some idiot wrote: > >> If you do not read Science Fiction books and you post off topic >> here you must be a troll and I call on all good users to cast you >> out... > > Starmaker used to be a daily poster here and whilst initially > amusing, most people will have binned it already but still see its > posts when replied to. Some trolls are like that. Is Arindam still around? He used to be a good comedy act, but it finally got repetitive and everyone plonked him. One that I miss is Jenn. She was the one who insisted that faith was a verb. She had some amusing misconceptions. Some other trolls are not like that, because they don't present as a joke. Jai Maharaj was a classic case. Everyone hated him right from his first appearance. -- Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org Newcastle, NSW
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 07:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <11b2ls9$17f7m$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152479 |
On 10/18/26 01:02, Titus G wrote: > On 18/10/2026 19:07, BobbieSellers wrote: >> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: > >> If you do not read Science Fiction books and >> you post off topic here you must be a troll and I call >> on all good users to cast you out... > > Starmaker used to be a daily poster here and whilst initially amusing, > most people will have binned it already but still see its posts when > replied to. > >> At 89 I got no more time for you... > > Even if you were 8 or 9 you wouldn't. > When I was 8 in 1945 or 9 in 1946 I would not have been experienced enough to realize that the Troll was there but no worry about that because at that time we only had comic books and SF magazines. No handy Internet at all. My elementary school calculator was a pencil with a celluloid sleeve with the times table and you just rotated it to the 6 X 9 column to get 54, and no more power needed but your fingers. Smarter nations taught the use of the abacus. But I went to schools in California and in Nevada and California again. Nevada started teaching algebra earlier in the grade school than California. bliss
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 16:42 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <11b3b0g$1g1bi$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152495 |
BobbieSellers wrote: > On 10/18/26 01:02, Titus G wrote: >> On 18/10/2026 19:07, BobbieSellers wrote: >>> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: >> >>> If you do not read Science Fiction books and >>> you post off topic here you must be a troll and I call >>> on all good users to cast you out... >> >> Starmaker used to be a daily poster here and whilst initially amusing, >> most people will have binned it already but still see its posts when >> replied to. >> >>> At 89 I got no more time for you... >> >> Even if you were 8 or 9 you wouldn't. >> > > When I was 8 in 1945 or 9 in 1946 I would not have been > experienced enough to realize that the Troll was there but no > worry about that because at that time we only had comic books > and SF magazines. No handy Internet at all. > > My elementary school calculator was a pencil with > a celluloid sleeve with the times table and you just rotated > it to the 6 X 9 column to get 54, and no more power needed > but your fingers. We wouldn't have been allowed that in Toronto in the 1950s. If you couldn't memorize products up to 12X12 you got at best a D in arithmetic. A friend who teaches at a junior college in Arizona tells me that two of his students failed to multiply 7X9. One knew that it was "around 60". Graduates from this course are supposed to be qualified for any second year Calculus course in the US. Even one offered by MIT. This could end in tears. William Hyde
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 14:48 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <11b3bbn$1g0ll$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152512 |
William Hyde wrote: > BobbieSellers wrote: >> On 10/18/26 01:02, Titus G wrote: >>> On 18/10/2026 19:07, BobbieSellers wrote: >>>> On 10/17/26 22:38, The Starmaker wrote: >>> >>>> If you do not read Science Fiction books and >>>> you post off topic here you must be a troll and I call >>>> on all good users to cast you out... >>> >>> Starmaker used to be a daily poster here and whilst initially amusing, >>> most people will have binned it already but still see its posts when >>> replied to. >>> >>>> At 89 I got no more time for you... >>> >>> Even if you were 8 or 9 you wouldn't. >>> >> >> When I was 8 in 1945 or 9 in 1946 I would not have been >> experienced enough to realize that the Troll was there but no >> worry about that because at that time we only had comic books >> and SF magazines. No handy Internet at all. >> >> My elementary school calculator was a pencil with >> a celluloid sleeve with the times table and you just rotated >> it to the 6 X 9 column to get 54, and no more power needed >> but your fingers. > > We wouldn't have been allowed that in Toronto in the 1950s. If you > couldn't memorize products up to 12X12 you got at best a D in arithmetic. > > A friend who teaches at a junior college in Arizona tells me that two of > his students failed to multiply 7X9. One knew that it was "around 60". > > Graduates from this course are supposed to be qualified for any second > year Calculus course in the US. Even one offered by MIT. This could > end in tears. > > William Hyde > I've been talking about this a bit. Maybe it's why they are shutting down the universities, because many people aren't up to it and should just take a dash more math. -- Can you strip away so we may start again? "There’s a switch and they don't seem authentic or themselves. It feels like I’m an unnecessary body and it’s a waste of time to even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 20:48 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <11b3pce$hci$1@panix2.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #1152495 |
BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote: > When I was 8 in 1945 or 9 in 1946 I would not have been >experienced enough to realize that the Troll was there but no >worry about that because at that time we only had comic books >and SF magazines. No handy Internet at all. Didn't you look at the ads in the back? They were 100% trolling! Start your own empire of sea horses! Get a thousand dollars worth of rare stamps for only a penny! A friend of mine sent $5 which was an enormous amount of money at the time to a PO box in the midwest to get directions for "ANTI-GRAVITY! NO MAGNETS, GASSES OR EXOTIC FUELS!" He was disappointed. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 18:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <11b3tcg$1lsqc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152524 |
On 10/18/26 17:48, Scott Dorsey wrote: > BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote: >> When I was 8 in 1945 or 9 in 1946 I would not have been >> experienced enough to realize that the Troll was there but no >> worry about that because at that time we only had comic books >> and SF magazines. No handy Internet at all. > > Didn't you look at the ads in the back? They were 100% trolling! > Start your own empire of sea horses! Get a thousand dollars worth > of rare stamps for only a penny! > > A friend of mine sent $5 which was an enormous amount of money at > the time to a PO box in the midwest to get directions for "ANTI-GRAVITY! > NO MAGNETS, GASSES OR EXOTIC FUELS!" He was disappointed. > --scott Generally disappointment was the rule but we were very poor and i never fell for sea monkeys or a lot of the other advertised crap. The commonest one was for devices to extend your gas mileage in many magazines. My step-father spent a lot on stamps to send in answers to Hearst newspaper games which netted him nada. bliss
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 19:53 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6AD5862B.784D@ix.netcom.com> |
| In reply to | #1152525 |
BobbieSellers wrote: > > On 10/18/26 17:48, Scott Dorsey wrote: > > BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote: > >> When I was 8 in 1945 or 9 in 1946 I would not have been > >> experienced enough to realize that the Troll was there but no > >> worry about that because at that time we only had comic books > >> and SF magazines. No handy Internet at all. > > > > Didn't you look at the ads in the back? They were 100% trolling! > > Start your own empire of sea horses! Get a thousand dollars worth > > of rare stamps for only a penny! > > > > A friend of mine sent $5 which was an enormous amount of money at > > the time to a PO box in the midwest to get directions for "ANTI-GRAVITY! > > NO MAGNETS, GASSES OR EXOTIC FUELS!" He was disappointed. > > --scott > > Generally disappointment was the rule but we were very poor and i never > fell for sea monkeys or a lot of the other advertised crap. > The commonest one was for devices to extend your gas mileage in many > magazines. My step-father spent a lot on stamps to send in answers > to Hearst newspaper games which netted him nada. > > bliss > > Every kid in America LOVE those Aldoph Hitler stamps!!! -- The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable, to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, and challenge the unchallengeable.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-18 23:39 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <914bdl1ogojtvn54q9acd8rschg3adu06v@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #1152525 |
On Sun, 18 Oct 2026 18:56:30 -0700, BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote: >On 10/18/26 17:48, Scott Dorsey wrote: >> BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> wrote: >>> When I was 8 in 1945 or 9 in 1946 I would not have been >>> experienced enough to realize that the Troll was there but no >>> worry about that because at that time we only had comic books >>> and SF magazines. No handy Internet at all. >> >> Didn't you look at the ads in the back? They were 100% trolling! >> Start your own empire of sea horses! Get a thousand dollars worth >> of rare stamps for only a penny! >> >> A friend of mine sent $5 which was an enormous amount of money at >> the time to a PO box in the midwest to get directions for "ANTI-GRAVITY! >> NO MAGNETS, GASSES OR EXOTIC FUELS!" He was disappointed. >> --scott > > Generally disappointment was the rule but we were very poor and i never >fell for sea monkeys or a lot of the other advertised crap. >The commonest one was for devices to extend your gas mileage in many >magazines. My step-father spent a lot on stamps to send in answers >to Hearst newspaper games which netted him nada. > Most of those ads required that you send them a "S.A.S.E.". Would anyone under 50 understand what was being asked for?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-10-19 15:07 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <11b4522$1nsjf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1152533 |
[As usual, crank newsgroup snipped] On 19/10/26 14:39, Tony Cooper wrote: > Most of those ads required that you send them a "S.A.S.E.". Would > anyone under 50 understand what was being asked for? Once upon a time I worked for the Post Office for a while. It was not unusual for someone to come in wanting to buy a Stamped Self-Addressed Envelope. We could sell them the stamped envelope, but had to tell them that they had to write the address themselves. -- Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org Newcastle, NSW
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 9 of 14 — ← Prev page 1 … 7 8 [9] 10 11 … 14 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | alt.usage.english
csiph-web