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Groups > alt.usage.english > #1152474

Re: Fat books

From The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups alt.usage.english, sci.physics.relativity, rec.arts.sf.written
Subject Re: Fat books
Date 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700
Organization The Starmaker Organization
Message-ID <6AD45A20.55FF@ix.netcom.com> (permalink)
References <11amvqh$15f3n$1@dont-email.me> <6AD3C2CC.475F@ix.netcom.com> <11b0g92$grpc$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Let's stop with all dis science fiction stuff..
Mars is not a planet!

There is no reason to go to Mars because
Mars is not a planet!

It's just a rock.

No different from the Moon.

Mars is just a balancing system
to keep the Earth on course..
and from flying away to some freeway.




Blaine wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>
> >> I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself annoyed.
> >>
> >> I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the
> >> worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the
> >> padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader.
> >>
> >> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point,
> >> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the
> >> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take
> >> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort
> >> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the
> >> characters in the story are complaining about the padding.
> >>
> >> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it
> >> to about one third of its length.
> >>
> >> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen
> >> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier
> >> writing.
> >>
> >> It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to
> >> being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with
> >> it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up
> >> any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to
> >> read because their books are too thick.
> >>
> >> But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books
> >> don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to
> >> complain about this?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Peter Moylan       peter@pmoylan.org    http://www.pmoylan.org
> >> Newcastle, NSW
> >
> >
> >
> > This is not literary criticism. It is a self-indulgent tantrum from a
> > reader who confuses personal irritation with objective analysis and then
> > tries to inflate it into an industry-wide conspiracy.
> >
> >      You mistake dialogue for padding and call it proof. Quoting one
> > character telling another to get to the point does not demonstrate
> > authorial failure. It demonstrates a character who is frustrated.
> > Treating in-story dialogue as a meta-confession by Asimov is the
> > critical equivalent of believing a novel’s villain is the author’s
> > autobiography.
> 
> one character may not demonstrate the failure he is referring to, but it
> struck a chord with me. Try getting very far into the followups in
> Stephen R. Donaldson's space opera with Angus Thermopyle. It's just like
> this and of such badness that it reminds one of someone using
> copy-paste, but with an AI to twist up the words slightly so that it
> can't be labeled that simply. The reader just doesn't need that many
> similar brushups on what happened last novel. I set it down before
> finishing.
> 
> --
> Can you strip away so we may start again?
> "There’s a switch and they don't
> seem authentic or themselves. It
> feels like I’m an unnecessary
> body and it’s a waste of time to
> even be there." -- Grim, playful Blaine.

-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

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Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 15:18 +1100
  Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-14 09:21 +0200
    Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 18:31 +1100
      Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-14 11:11 +0200
      Re: Fat books Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-10-16 06:53 +1100
        Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:54 +0800
          Re: Fat books Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2026-10-16 07:59 +1100
            Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:04 +0200
              the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 10:01 +0200
                Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 08:52 +0000
                Re: the fact that Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:25 +0800
                Re: the fact that Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-17 12:20 +0200
                Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-17 13:57 +0100
                Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-17 14:21 +0100
                Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-17 17:17 +0100
                Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-17 16:30 +0000
                Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-19 13:14 +0100
                Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 12:50 +0000
                Re: the fact that John Dunlop <dunlop.john@ymail.com> - 2026-10-23 14:07 +0100
                Re: the fact that Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 15:51 +0200
                Re: the fact that Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 09:44 +1100
                Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 15:05 +0200
                Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:44 +0100
                Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 16:33 +0200
                Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:59 +0200
                Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:57 +0200
                Re: the fact that richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-18 18:29 +0000
                Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 00:33 +0200
                Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 06:30 +0000
                Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
                Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
                Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
    Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:05 +0800
    Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 13:04 +0000
      Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:25 +0200
        Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-15 06:21 +0000
          Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:43 +0100
    Re: Fat books John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-14 08:02 -0700
      Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:46 +0200
        Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 15:02 +0800
        Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:46 +0100
          Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 21:48 +0800
          Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 21:57 +0200
            Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 10:07 +0530
              Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-18 10:33 +0100
              Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 12:30 +0200
                Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-18 19:22 +0100
                Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 12:59 -0700
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
                Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 00:53 +0100
                Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:35 -0400
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:21 +0100
                Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 20:14 +0100
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
                Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:59 -0700
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:31 +0100
                Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 10:56 -0400
                Re: Fat books ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-21 15:33 +0000
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 23:34 +0800
                Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 18:29 -0400
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 10:46 +0800
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-22 14:36 +1100
                Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 22:25 -0700
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:54 +0100
                Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 17:40 -0400
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:52 +0800
                Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-22 20:06 +0100
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-23 07:22 +1100
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-23 10:00 +0100
                Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-22 17:33 -0300
                Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 16:41 -0400
                Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-23 00:43 +0100
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
                Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-23 13:32 +0000
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 00:22 +0800
                Re: Fat books Carlo XYZ <carloxyz@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-23 21:50 +0200
                Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 07:00 +0000
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 08:10 +0100
                Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-24 11:38 +0200
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:50 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 18:07 +0800
                Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-24 09:13 -0400
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 17:27 +0100
                Re: Fat books Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-10-24 21:18 +0200
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:17 +0000
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:22 +0000
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:36 +0000
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:22 +1100
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:38 +0000
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 04:25 +0800
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-24 21:35 -0700
                Re: Fat books squalk <sq@net.invalid> - 2026-10-25 20:34 +0000
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-25 14:56 -0700
                Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:10 +0000
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 11:18 +0100
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:30 +1100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 18:18 +0800
                Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-25 18:09 +0000
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-26 05:47 +0000
                Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-26 10:56 +0000
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-24 14:23 +0200
                Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-21 20:13 +0100
                Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 14:30 -0400
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-21 21:26 +0200
                Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 10:53 +0200
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
          Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-16 03:42 +0200
            Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:18 +0100
              Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:18 +0200
    Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 19:40 +1300
      Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:19 +1100
        Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 23:32 +1300
          Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 16:00 +1300
        Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 17:01 +1300
      Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 09:27 +0200
        Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
          Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 04:02 +0200
            Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 17:55 +1300
  Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 10:31 +0100
    Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:48 +0800
    Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-14 20:02 -0300
      Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-15 08:19 +0200
        Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-15 16:09 -0300
          Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:56 +0800
          Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:09 +0200
            Re: Fat books richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-16 09:03 +0000
            Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-16 10:27 +0100
              Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 12:22 +0200
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 11:05 +0100
    Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:34 +0100
  Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 16:44 +0000
    Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:21 +0000
      Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 17:46 +0000
        Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
    Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-14 18:15 +0000
      Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-14 20:37 +0200
        Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 21:40 +0100
          Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-14 23:19 +0100
            Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:42 +0200
            Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-15 08:48 +0100
          Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:34 +0200
      Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
        Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-15 16:57 +1100
          Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:01 +0800
            Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:06 +0800
          Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 12:15 +0200
  Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-14 20:16 +0100
    Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:49 +0200
  Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:33 +0100
    Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 22:00 +0800
  Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:35 +0000
    Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-16 10:49 +0100
    Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:37 +1100
      Ferraro's Programmer's Guide to the EGA, VGA, and Super VGA Cards (was: Re: Fat books) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:29 +0800
      Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:33 +0800
      Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 13:49 -0700
  Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:49 +1100
    Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-16 11:28 -0400
      Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-16 09:33 -0700
  Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-17 06:35 +0100
  Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 11:47 -0700
    Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-17 12:54 -0600
      Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
      Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:33 -0700
        Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-17 22:38 -0700
          Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 23:07 -0700
            Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 18:14 +1100
              Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:33 -0700
            Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 21:02 +1300
              Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 21:22 +1100
              Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:42 -0700
                Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:42 -0400
                Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 14:48 -0600
                Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-18 20:48 -0400
                Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:56 -0700
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:53 -0700
                Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:39 -0400
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 15:07 +1100
                Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:51 -0700
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:06 +1100
                Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:45 -0400
                Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:54 -0700
                Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 11:44 +0200
                Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-19 15:42 -0400
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:53 +1100
                Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-18 22:18 -0700
                Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 18:43 +1300
                Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-19 22:03 -0700
                Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 18:37 +1300
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 09:30 +1100
                Re: Fat books Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:15 -0400
                Re: Fat books "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2026-10-19 23:08 +1100
            Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:28 +0100
              Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:33 +0800
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:45 +0100
                Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 20:06 +0530
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:40 +0800
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800
              Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700
              Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-20 08:33 +1100
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:04 +0800
                Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-19 18:31 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:55 +0800
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:37 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:43 +0800
                Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:39 +0200
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-20 07:01 +0100
                Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-20 08:57 +0100
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:42 +0100
                Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 12:23 -0700
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:56 +0100
                Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-21 09:17 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 20:51 +0800
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:51 +0800
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:58 +0800
                Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
                Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 14:00 +0000
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 22:06 +0800
                Re: Fat books Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 01:01 +0100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:38 +0800
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:18 -0700
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:02 +0800
                Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 15:15 +0100
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:05 -0700
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:28 -0700
                Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:14 -0400
                Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 19:15 +0000
                Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 12:43 -0700
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:29 -0700
                Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 18:32 -0700
                Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-22 12:02 +1300
                Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-21 20:35 -0700
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:28 -0700
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:44 -0700
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 01:49 +0800
                Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:59 -0700
                Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:13 -0400
                Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-20 09:13 -0700
                Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 09:53 -0700
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 11:22 +1100
                Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:48 +0800
                Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 17:25 +1100
                Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 19:19 -0400
            Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:50 -0700
    Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:59 -0700
      Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:46 +0800
        Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0400
          Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:48 -0700
          Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0700
          Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:04 +0800
            Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400

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