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Groups > alt.usage.english > #1152448
| From | The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.usage.english, sci.physics.relativity, rec.arts.sf.written |
| Subject | Re: Fat books |
| Date | 2026-10-17 11:47 -0700 |
| Organization | The Starmaker Organization |
| Message-ID | <6AD3C2CC.475F@ix.netcom.com> (permalink) |
| References | <11amvqh$15f3n$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> I've griped about this issue before, but once again I find myself annoyed.
>
> I was reading "Robots and Empire", by Isaac Asimov. This is possibly the
> worst novel Asimov ever wrote. As a story it's mostly well-told, but the
> padding and waffle are enough to irritate the most patient reader.
>
> Let me quote from Chapter 45. "I think you must either get to the point,
> Dr Mandamus, or leave." This is not the only such case. Many of the
> characters in the book are incapable of getting to the point. They take
> half a dozen pages to say something that could be put in one chort
> paragraph. Get to the point, Dr Asimov. It's so bad that even the
> characters in the story are complaining about the padding.
>
> A competent editor could have made this a much better book by cutting it
> to about one third of its length.
>
> I wonder whether this hurt Asimov's reputation. I've certainly seen
> comments that his later (thick) books are not as good as his earlier
> writing.
>
> It's not all his fault. Many other authors are as bad. They're used to
> being paid by the page, and publishers are letting them get away with
> it. Maybe publishers don't employ editors any more, and have given up
> any attempt at quality control. There are some authors that I refuse to
> read because their books are too thick.
>
> But surely, I tell myself, the publishers must have noticed that books
> don't sell as well as they used to. Or do they? Am I the only person to
> complain about this?
>
> --
> Peter Moylan peter@pmoylan.org http://www.pmoylan.org
> Newcastle, NSW
This is not literary criticism. It is a self-indulgent tantrum from a
reader who confuses personal irritation with objective analysis and then
tries to inflate it into an industry-wide conspiracy.
You mistake dialogue for padding and call it proof. Quoting one
character telling another to get to the point does not demonstrate
authorial failure. It demonstrates a character who is frustrated.
Treating in-story dialogue as a meta-confession by Asimov is the
critical equivalent of believing a novel’s villain is the author’s
autobiography.
"Could have been cut to one-third" is pure assertion without a
single concrete cut. You offer zero page counts, zero scene breakdowns,
zero demonstration that removing two-thirds would leave a coherent plot,
character arc, or thematic payoff. That is not editing advice. That is
fantasy surgery performed with a chainsaw and no anatomy knowledge.
You leap from one book you dislike to a sweeping claim about
Asimov’s later career and reputation. "I’ve seen comments" is anecdotal
garbage. No sales data, no critical consensus metrics, no comparison of
contemporaneous reviews versus later ones. You are treating your own
annoyance as a proxy for market and critical judgment.
The "paid by the page" explanation is historically illiterate.
Modern trade publishing does not pay authors by the page or by the word
in the way pulp magazines once did. Advances and royalties are based on
projected sales and contract terms, not length. Blaming "payment by the
page" for 1980s–90s hardcovers is simply wrong.
You treat thickness as an automatic quality defect. Many of the most
commercially and critically successful novels of the last fifty years
are long. Length is not the variable; density and necessity are. You
never distinguish between the two.
You assume that every reader shares your patience threshold and that
anything exceeding it is objectively padded. You assume publishers have
abandoned editing because books are long, ignoring the existence of
developmental editors, copy editors, and the commercial reality that
certain audiences buy thick books precisely because they want immersion.
You assume declining sales (if real) are caused by length rather than
competing media, changing leisure habits, price, or content. You never
admit the possibility that Robots and Empire was written at that length
because Asimov chose to expand the political and historical scope of his
universe rather than because he was padding for money.
Readers who buy series finales and late-career works by established
authors often want more of the same world, not less. Publishers know
this; they are not stupid. Editors who routinely gut bestselling
authors’ manuscripts risk losing the author and the revenue. Your
preferred "one-third length" version would have to sell to the same
audience that already accepted the longer book. Competitors and
imitators in science fiction have thrived with both lean and expansive
styles. Your refusal to read thick books is a personal filter, not a
market signal that forces publishers to change.
Asimov’s later novels sold in large numbers despite (or because of)
their length. The physical and economic constraints of publishing do not
make long books inherently unprofitable; paper, printing, and
distribution costs scale, but so can price and perceived value. Your
claim that "books don’t sell as well as they used to" is too vague to
test and ignores category differences, format shifts (ebooks,
audiobooks), and the fact that some long books still move hundreds of
thousands of copies. A single reader’s irritation does not scale into
industry failure.
The entire causal chain—character dialogue equals authorial padding
equals payment incentives equals editorial collapse equals sales
decline—must be discarded. Replace it with actual textual analysis of
specific scenes that fail to advance plot, character, or theme,
supported by evidence rather than feelings. The industry diagnosis must
be rebuilt from contracts, sales data, and editorial practice rather
than nostalgia and anecdote.
Nothing of structural value survives. The observation that some late
Asimov is less tight than early Asimov is a commonplace, not an insight
you originated or substantiated.
You are not diagnosing a publishing disease. You are complaining that a
book refused to finish at the exact moment your personal tolerance
expired, then dressing the complaint up as systemic critique.
The Swarmmaker Fleet
--
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
and challenge the unchallengeable.
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Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 15:18 +1100
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-14 09:21 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-14 18:31 +1100
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Re: the fact that Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-18 09:44 +1100
Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 15:05 +0200
Re: the fact that Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 14:44 +0100
Re: the fact that occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-18 16:33 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:59 +0200
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 18:57 +0200
Re: the fact that richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-18 18:29 +0000
Re: the fact that Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 00:33 +0200
Re: the fact that athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-19 06:30 +0000
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Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: the fact that nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-26 23:30 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:05 +0800
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 13:04 +0000
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:25 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-15 06:21 +0000
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:43 +0100
Re: Fat books John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-10-14 08:02 -0700
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-15 06:46 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 15:02 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:46 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 21:48 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 21:57 +0200
Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 10:07 +0530
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-18 10:33 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 12:30 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-18 19:22 +0100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 12:59 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 00:53 +0100
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:35 -0400
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:21 +0100
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-19 20:14 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-19 12:59 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 10:56 -0400
Re: Fat books ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-21 15:33 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 23:34 +0800
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 18:29 -0400
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 10:46 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-22 14:36 +1100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 22:25 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:54 +0100
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 17:40 -0400
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-23 10:52 +0800
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-22 20:06 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-23 07:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-23 10:00 +0100
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-22 17:33 -0300
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 16:41 -0400
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-23 00:43 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-23 10:43 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-23 13:32 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 00:22 +0800
Re: Fat books Carlo XYZ <carloxyz@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-23 21:50 +0200
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 07:00 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 08:10 +0100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-24 11:38 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:50 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-24 18:07 +0800
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-24 09:13 -0400
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 17:27 +0100
Re: Fat books Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-10-24 21:18 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:17 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 06:22 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:36 +0000
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-25 10:38 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 04:25 +0800
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-24 21:35 -0700
Re: Fat books squalk <sq@net.invalid> - 2026-10-25 20:34 +0000
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-25 14:56 -0700
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-24 10:10 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-24 11:18 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-25 20:30 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-25 18:18 +0800
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-25 18:09 +0000
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-26 05:47 +0000
Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-26 10:56 +0000
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-24 14:23 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-21 20:13 +0100
Re: Fat books Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2026-10-22 14:30 -0400
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-21 21:26 +0200
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-19 10:53 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 22:35 +0200
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-16 03:42 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 13:18 +0100
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:18 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 19:40 +1300
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:19 +1100
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-16 23:32 +1300
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 16:00 +1300
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 17:01 +1300
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-17 09:27 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-18 04:02 +0200
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 17:55 +1300
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 10:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:48 +0800
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-14 20:02 -0300
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-15 08:19 +0200
Re: Fat books Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-10-15 16:09 -0300
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 04:56 +0800
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 09:09 +0200
Re: Fat books richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-10-16 09:03 +0000
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-16 10:27 +0100
Re: Fat books occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-16 12:22 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-19 11:05 +0100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:34 +0100
Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 16:44 +0000
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-14 17:21 +0000
Re: Fat books wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) - 2026-10-14 17:46 +0000
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-14 18:15 +0000
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-14 20:37 +0200
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-14 21:40 +0100
Re: Fat books Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-14 23:19 +0100
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:42 +0200
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-15 08:48 +0100
Re: Fat books Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-15 00:34 +0200
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:29 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-15 16:57 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:01 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 16:06 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-15 12:15 +0200
Re: Fat books Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-14 20:16 +0100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-14 22:49 +0200
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-15 12:33 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-15 22:00 +0800
Re: Fat books athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-10-16 09:35 +0000
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-16 10:49 +0100
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-16 21:37 +1100
Ferraro's Programmer's Guide to the EGA, VGA, and Super VGA Cards (was: Re: Fat books) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-16 19:29 +0800
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Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-16 13:49 -0700
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Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-18 09:40 +1300
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Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 07:42 -0700
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Re: Fat books Blaine <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-18 14:48 -0600
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Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 18:56 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:53 -0700
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:39 -0400
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 15:07 +1100
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:51 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:06 +1100
Re: Fat books Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 23:45 -0400
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-18 21:54 -0700
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-19 11:44 +0200
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-19 15:42 -0400
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-19 13:53 +1100
Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-18 22:18 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-19 18:43 +1300
Re: Fat books Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2026-10-19 22:03 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-20 18:37 +1300
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 09:30 +1100
Re: Fat books Tony Nance <tnusenet17@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:15 -0400
Re: Fat books "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2026-10-19 23:08 +1100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 11:28 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:33 +0800
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-18 13:45 +0100
Re: Fat books Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-10-18 20:06 +0530
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:40 +0800
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:35 +0800
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-18 09:04 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 13:02 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:25 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-18 21:39 +0200
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 17:06 -0700
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 14:47 +0200
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-20 08:33 +1100
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-19 14:00 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-19 21:04 +0800
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-19 18:31 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:55 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:37 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:43 +0800
Re: Fat books Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-20 05:39 +0200
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-20 07:01 +0100
Re: Fat books Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-10-20 08:57 +0100
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 10:42 +0100
Re: Fat books Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 12:23 -0700
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-22 12:56 +0100
Re: Fat books Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-10-21 09:17 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 20:51 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 20:51 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-19 21:40 +0200
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 05:58 +0800
Re: Fat books nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-20 13:09 +0200
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 14:00 +0000
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 22:06 +0800
Re: Fat books Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-21 01:01 +0100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:38 +0800
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 07:18 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 23:02 +0800
Re: Fat books Adam Funk <a24061@ducksburg.com> - 2026-10-20 15:15 +0100
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:05 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 08:28 -0700
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:14 -0400
Re: Fat books Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-10-20 19:15 +0000
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 12:43 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:29 -0700
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 18:32 -0700
Re: Fat books Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2026-10-22 12:02 +1300
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-21 20:35 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:28 -0700
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:44 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-22 01:49 +0800
Re: Fat books Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-10-21 10:59 -0700
Re: Fat books kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2026-10-20 12:13 -0400
Re: Fat books Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2026-10-20 09:13 -0700
Re: Fat books Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-10-20 09:53 -0700
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 11:22 +1100
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-21 10:48 +0800
Re: Fat books Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-21 17:25 +1100
Re: Fat books Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-21 19:19 -0400
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 19:50 -0700
Re: Fat books BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.invalid> - 2026-10-17 18:59 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-18 19:46 +0800
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0400
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:48 -0700
Re: Fat books The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-18 16:57 -0700
Re: Fat books Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-20 21:04 +0800
Re: Fat books William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> - 2026-10-20 15:09 -0400
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