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Groups > alt.os.linux > #81092 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-03-11 21:52 +1100 |
| Last post | 2025-03-17 11:54 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 83 — 15 participants |
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When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-11 21:52 +1100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-11 13:16 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-11 23:34 +1100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-03-11 08:21 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-11 15:57 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2025-03-11 11:23 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-12 00:31 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-03-12 13:15 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-03-14 11:19 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-03-14 16:47 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-03-14 14:47 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-14 23:39 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-03-15 07:50 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-15 06:58 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-15 04:02 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-15 22:20 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-15 20:29 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-16 01:18 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-15 22:44 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-16 06:33 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2025-03-17 08:57 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-03-17 16:05 +0200
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-17 19:23 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-17 15:21 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-17 22:04 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-17 23:19 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-03-19 16:45 +0200
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2025-03-19 16:05 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-19 21:00 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-20 03:04 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-20 22:02 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-21 11:50 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-21 12:21 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-24 00:50 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-24 14:23 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-20 12:24 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-20 22:01 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-21 11:51 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-21 10:16 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-22 13:52 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-22 14:18 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-22 23:20 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-24 23:20 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-25 12:55 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-26 00:27 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-03-20 11:07 +0200
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-20 12:29 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-19 14:14 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-19 21:18 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-03-20 10:51 +0200
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-20 12:22 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-03-20 20:35 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-21 11:55 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-03-21 16:24 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-22 06:58 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-22 04:29 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-22 22:00 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-23 02:01 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-24 00:43 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-03-21 16:37 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-22 06:57 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-22 14:00 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2025-03-22 09:42 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-22 15:20 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-22 14:00 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-22 20:34 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-22 22:02 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-22 23:22 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-24 00:42 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-17 23:18 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-03-15 09:08 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-15 13:37 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-03-15 19:22 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-15 14:57 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> - 2025-03-15 21:06 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-11 19:56 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-11 18:16 +0000
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-11 20:03 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-12 15:12 +0100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-12 14:56 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2025-03-17 07:49 -0400
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-03-18 00:21 +1100
Re: When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-17 11:54 -0400
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| From | Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-11 21:52 +1100 |
| Subject | When I back-up .... Coping my Entire Internal HD to an external HD |
| Message-ID | <vqp4l5$1u8h4$1@dont-email.me> |
Some time ago, I backed up my Laptop's 500GB internal HD to an 2TB external HD using (I forget) ... It might have been 'dd' but I doubt it. However, the 500GB Internals Image took up 500GB on the External (i.e. a byte-by-byte image, even the empty bytes, apparently!). Now, when I look at that External HD using my Win 11 Desk-top, it doesn't 'see' anything. Is this because Linux is at a 'Higher'/'deeper' level than Windows can 'see'?? If I back-up this Win-11 Desktop to the same External HD, is there a possibility that Win-11 will write itself over the Linux Image?? Or is Win-11 able to detect that there is 'something' there so will go looking for the next available UNUSED portion of the External HD?? -- Daniel70
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-11 13:16 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <f5m5alx305.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #81092 |
On 2025-03-11 11:52, Daniel70 wrote: > Some time ago, I backed up my Laptop's 500GB internal HD to an 2TB > external HD using (I forget) ... It might have been 'dd' but I doubt it. > > However, the 500GB Internals Image took up 500GB on the External (i.e. a > byte-by-byte image, even the empty bytes, apparently!). > > Now, when I look at that External HD using my Win 11 Desk-top, it > doesn't 'see' anything. > > Is this because Linux is at a 'Higher'/'deeper' level than Windows can > 'see'?? Windows intentionally does not see Linux filesystems. Use Linux. > > If I back-up this Win-11 Desktop to the same External HD, is there a > possibility that Win-11 will write itself over the Linux Image?? Or is > Win-11 able to detect that there is 'something' there so will go looking > for the next available UNUSED portion of the External HD?? It is important for us to know what exactly did you use to backup your disk and how. Without that information I can not answer your question. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-11 23:34 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <vqpake$1vjg3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81093 |
On 11/03/2025 11:16 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2025-03-11 11:52, Daniel70 wrote: >> Some time ago, I backed up my Laptop's 500GB internal HD to an 2TB >> external HD using (I forget) ... It might have been 'dd' but I doubt it. >> >> However, the 500GB Internals Image took up 500GB on the External (i.e. >> a byte-by-byte image, even the empty bytes, apparently!). >> >> Now, when I look at that External HD using my Win 11 Desk-top, it >> doesn't 'see' anything. >> >> Is this because Linux is at a 'Higher'/'deeper' level than Windows can >> 'see'?? > > Windows intentionally does not see Linux filesystems. Use Linux. > >> If I back-up this Win-11 Desktop to the same External HD, is there a >> possibility that Win-11 will write itself over the Linux Image?? Or is >> Win-11 able to detect that there is 'something' there so will go >> looking for the next available UNUSED portion of the External HD?? > > It is important for us to know what exactly did you use to backup your > disk and how. Without that information I can not answer your question. It's been a while, Carlos, but, when I installed MGA-6, I would have installed MGA-6 and then done the complete back-up then, starting from the ISO disk. -- Daniel70
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| From | "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-11 08:21 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <op.228vajuya3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net> |
| In reply to | #81092 |
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 06:52:17 -0400, Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote: > Some time ago, I backed up my Laptop's 500GB internal HD to an 2TB > external HD using (I forget) ... It might have been 'dd' but I doubt it. Depending on how you did it, the backup may be in a file in a partition on the 2TB drive, or the partition table may have been copied so that the partitions on the 2TB drive are the same as they were on the 500GB drive. > However, the 500GB Internals Image took up 500GB on the External (i.e. a > byte-by-byte image, even the empty bytes, apparently!). > > Now, when I look at that External HD using my Win 11 Desk-top, it > doesn't 'see' anything. WIndows should see an "unknown" file system in the existing partition(s). > Is this because Linux is at a 'Higher'/'deeper' level than Windows can > 'see'?? M$ doesn't want to make it easy for windows users to use anything else. > If I back-up this Win-11 Desktop to the same External HD, is there a > possibility that Win-11 will write itself over the Linux Image?? Or is > Win-11 able to detect that there is 'something' there so will go looking > for the next available UNUSED portion of the External HD?? It really matters how the backup was done. Windows may overwrite it or it may allow you to create new partitions on the drive. I don't trust windows for anything, and haven't used it much since XP. I occasionally troubleshoot things for others, but try to avoid it as much as I can. Don't write anything to the drive until you know exactly what is on there. Working with low level tools like dd make it easy to wipe out data with a single typo. Regards, Dave Hodgins
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-11 15:57 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <5kv5alxctp.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #81094 |
On 2025-03-11 13:21, David W. Hodgins wrote: > On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 06:52:17 -0400, Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal- > september.org> wrote: > >> Some time ago, I backed up my Laptop's 500GB internal HD to an 2TB >> external HD using (I forget) ... It might have been 'dd' but I doubt it. > > Depending on how you did it, the backup may be in a file in a > partition on the 2TB drive, or the partition table may have been > copied so that the partitions on the 2TB drive are the same as they > were on the 500GB drive. Just my thoughts. > >> However, the 500GB Internals Image took up 500GB on the External (i.e. a >> byte-by-byte image, even the empty bytes, apparently!). >> >> Now, when I look at that External HD using my Win 11 Desk-top, it >> doesn't 'see' anything. > > WIndows should see an "unknown" file system in the existing partition(s). And helpfully offer to format it >:-P >> Is this because Linux is at a 'Higher'/'deeper' level than Windows can >> 'see'?? > > M$ doesn't want to make it easy for windows users to use anything else. > >> If I back-up this Win-11 Desktop to the same External HD, is there a >> possibility that Win-11 will write itself over the Linux Image?? Or is >> Win-11 able to detect that there is 'something' there so will go looking >> for the next available UNUSED portion of the External HD?? > > It really matters how the backup was done. Windows may overwrite it > or it may allow you to create new partitions on the drive. I don't > trust windows for anything, and haven't used it much since XP. I > occasionally troubleshoot things for others, but try to avoid it as > much as I can. > > Don't write anything to the drive until you know exactly what is on > there. Working with low level tools like dd make it easy to wipe out > data with a single typo. Right. Start listing the partition table, from Linux. Then do something like: file -s /dev/sdZ* It might have been 'dd', or perhaps Clonezilla. Maybe there is a single ext4 partition there, with the image files inside. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-11 11:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <op.2283ouoja3w0dxdave@hodgins.homeip.net> |
| In reply to | #81096 |
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:57:41 -0400, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: <snip> > On 2025-03-11 13:21, David W. Hodgins wrote: <snip> >> WIndows should see an "unknown" file system in the existing partition(s). > > And helpfully offer to format it >:-P I once experimented with putting a file system on a usb stick with mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdf rather then creating a partition on the device like sdf1. Made the mistake of booting windows with the usb stick plugged in. Windows doesn't offer to format it. Windows overwrote the first track putting a partition table on the device without any prompting to do so or message indicating it had done so. Only later when I tried to mount the device in linux did I realize there was a problem. Experimented some more to confirm windows was doing this. Never let windows touch a file system that wasn't created using windows, and never let it work with a device without a partition table, unless it's in a floppy disk drive. Regards, Dave Hodgins
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-12 00:31 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vqqklt$28fls$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81097 |
On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 11:23:08 -0400, David W. Hodgins wrote: > I once experimented with putting a file system on a usb stick with mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdf > rather then creating a partition on the device like sdf1. Linux doesn’t mind about things like this. Windows does.
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| From | Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-12 13:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vqs1e6$2kef5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81101 |
On 2025-03-12 00:31, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 11:23:08 -0400, David W. Hodgins wrote: >> >> I once experimented with putting a file system on a usb stick with mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdf >> rather then creating a partition on the device like sdf1. > > Linux doesn’t mind about things like this. Windows does. Yes, there is something strange about Windows and USB disks, or rather I should say sticks, as my comments below definitely applied to the USB stick being used, but not AFAIAA to conventional HDs attached via USB. When I was preparing my 'One Rescue USB does it all" as previously described in this and other ngs ... SOLVED: One Rescue USB does it all https://news.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1467&group=uk.comp.os.linux#1467 ... I found that Windows behaved most oddly with a USB stick having a partition table. I meant to post separately about it at the time, but once I'd got a USB stick that worked, I forgot about this problem encountered en voyage, so now have to rely on ageing memory. AFAICR, the issue I encountered went like this ... As described in the original thread, I eventually created a 256GB USB stick with partitions as follows ... 1 8GB FAT32 Win PE + Ghost + Product Key Scanner 2 8GB FAT32 Clonezilla 3 32GB Ext4 XUbuntu 22 4 Rest NTFS Ghost Image & Installation ISO Files. ... however, on the first attempt, partitions 1 & 2 were swapped around, and Windows didn't seem to like this at all, and wouldn't let me copy stuff to Partition #2, then the Win PE partition. When, unwisely, I allowed Windows to 'fix' the problems it encountered with the disk - it said the disk needed to be formatted, and, thinking it was going to format just Partition #2 as FAT32, I allowed it to do so, it completely wrecked my work thus far. The partition table previously created with GPartEd under Ubuntu 22 was completely lost, and I was left with just a USB stick with one large 'partition' covering the entire disk. When back in Ubuntu 22 I examined the result before starting again, it seemed to me that Windows had formatted the USB stick as though it were a large floppy disk, without a partition table. Even now, when I examine the working Emergency USB stick, this time partitioned exactly as in the table above, in the Disk Manager console in Windows, it recognises only Partition #1 as being FAT32, giving it a drive letter; it doesn't recognise Partition #2 as being FAT32 and therefore doesn't give it a drive letter. I think that's why I ended up swapping the first two partitions around to the way they are now, so that at least I could copy stuff to the Win PE partition from within Windows. Que? -- Fake news kills! I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk
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| From | TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-14 11:19 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vr1he7$1h39o$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81097 |
On 2025-03-11 11:23, David W. Hodgins wrote: > On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 10:57:41 -0400, Carlos E.R. > <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > <snip> >> On 2025-03-11 13:21, David W. Hodgins wrote: > <snip> >>> WIndows should see an "unknown" file system in the existing >>> partition(s). >> >> And helpfully offer to format it >:-P > > I once experimented with putting a file system on a usb stick with > mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdf > rather then creating a partition on the device like sdf1. > > Made the mistake of booting windows with the usb stick plugged in. > Windows doesn't > offer to format it. Windows overwrote the first track putting a > partition table on the > device without any prompting to do so or message indicating it had done so. > > Only later when I tried to mount the device in linux did I realize there > was a problem. > Experimented some more to confirm windows was doing this. > > Never let windows touch a file system that wasn't created using windows, > and never let it > work with a device without a partition table, unless it's in a floppy > disk drive. > > Regards, Dave Hodgins Interesting. I have a few things I need Windows for but I only use it from a VirtualBox VM, Windows 7 for the last few years, recently "upgraded" to Windows 10. Because I have a need to access certain data from both the host and the guest, I have one host folder that is "shared" with the guest. So far, Windows has made no moves to change anything but the data I've told it to access. Could be the nature of the host/guest relationship prevents it, I suppose. TJ
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| From | "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-14 16:47 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vr1j2v$1jfh8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81105 |
TJ, > So far, Windows has made no moves to change anything but the data I've > told it to access. Maybe you've forgotten how Win7 responded to USB sticks that where formatted under XP ? Yep, every time you plugged them into Win7 wanted to "fix" them. Regards, Rudy Wieser
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| From | TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-14 14:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vr1tkq$1rnco$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81106 |
On 2025-03-14 11:47, R.Wieser wrote: > TJ, > >> So far, Windows has made no moves to change anything but the data I've >> told it to access. > > Maybe you've forgotten how Win7 responded to USB sticks that where formatted > under XP ? Yep, every time you plugged them into Win7 wanted to "fix" > them. > > Regards, > Rudy Wieser > > > Never knew it in the first place. Last Windows I used outside of Vbox was Win2000, many, many moons ago. I don't believe I ever formatted any USB sticks with XP, OR Win7 from Vbox. Never wanted to. As for digital camera memory cards from back before I had anything to do with USB sticks, I always let the camera do that. TJ
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-14 23:39 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vr2sq3$2kus3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81107 |
On Fri, 3/14/2025 2:47 PM, TJ wrote: > On 2025-03-14 11:47, R.Wieser wrote: >> TJ, >> >>> So far, Windows has made no moves to change anything but the data I've >>> told it to access. >> >> Maybe you've forgotten how Win7 responded to USB sticks that where formatted >> under XP ? Yep, every time you plugged them into Win7 wanted to "fix" >> them. >> >> Regards, >> Rudy Wieser >> >> >> > Never knew it in the first place. Last Windows I used outside of Vbox was Win2000, many, many moons ago. I don't believe I ever formatted any USB sticks with XP, OR Win7 from Vbox. > > Never wanted to. As for digital camera memory cards from back before I had anything to do with USB sticks, I always let the camera do that. > > TJ Windows treats USB sticks with RMB=1, different than sticks with RMB=0. RMB is the Removable Media Bit. It causes the stick to indicate it has removable media, in windows Disk Management. A Windows partition may need examination, if the file system version is different. The current NTFS is version 3.1 . But it has not always been version 3.1 . It is stubbornly version 3.1, despite major changes having been made to it. For example, in windows 11, you can format a partition and use a cluster size of 1MB per cluster. This size is not supported in older OSes (Windows 7 would not mount such a partition). Yet the claim exists, that both OSes are "NTFS 3.1", which is not apparent to me, when Windows 11 allows larger cluster sizes not supported elsewhere. EXT4 is not a "manifest constant" either. Currently, a 2024 or 2025 LiveDvD, may format a partition as EXT4 and turn on feature C12. This partition may not be compatible with LM21.3 if such an OS is running in the room. While Windows partitions have a Dirty Bit, that is not the only reason that autochk would look carefully at them. There can be other reasons, such as a declaration of what standard it adheres to. Paul
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| From | "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-15 07:50 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <vr37vp$316g3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81108 |
Paul, > A Windows partition may need examination, if the file system > version is different. In my case the thumbdrives are all FAT32 - somethig Windows is well aquainted with. As far as I know the "problem" was that there was something changed in the non-table part of the boot record (a checksum ? an ID ? can't remember anymore), and Win7 wanted to rewrite it. Non-changed thumbdrives still kept working fine though. Regards, Rudy Wieser
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-15 06:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vr38f2$31fso$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81108 |
On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 23:39:46 -0400, Paul wrote: > Windows treats USB sticks with RMB=1, different than sticks with RMB=0. Windows doesn’t have the idea that any storage device could be hot- pluggable, does it.
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-15 04:02 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vr3c67$34fj8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81110 |
On Sat, 3/15/2025 2:58 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 23:39:46 -0400, Paul wrote: > >> Windows treats USB sticks with RMB=1, different than sticks with RMB=0. > > Windows doesn’t have the idea that any storage device could be hot- > pluggable, does it. > ??? where do you get these ideas ? In the BIOS for your computer, there are SATA ports listed. There are enable/disable buttons (these don't affect Linux, which is still able to detect drives set in the BIOS as disabled). In the same interface, are "Hotplug" buttons. Turning this on, on the port, changes the PNP information, so the driver will be ready for the dynamic appearance of a drive in mid-session. One consequence of connecting a hot-plug (like an ESATA drive), is the Safely Remove icon, adds the new drive to the removal list. You can eject a HotPlug drive. Hopefully, this results in the drive spinning down. You can then physically remove the drive. USB sticks are (obviously) HotPlug. For a period of time, one of the Windows OSes decided to stop listing filesystems that did not need "Safely Remove" behavior, but the changes to that OS may have been reversed. I generally handle all my USB sticks through that interface (do an Eject or a Safely Remove, depending on which GUI I'm in at the time), and it is then safe to unplug. In windows, if you switch on HotPlug behavior on the SATA port having the Windows C: partition on it, this can result in the Windows C: or related materials, showing up in the Safely Remove menu. Do not panic, as the partition cannot be removed, since it is "busy", and attempts to Safely Remove C: will receive a notation indicating why it cannot be removed. If you don't like seeing your C: in that Safely Remove menu, then disable all the HotPlug items in the BIOS. Paul
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-15 22:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vr4ug9$e0eb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81111 |
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 04:02:15 -0400, Paul wrote: > For a period of time, one of the Windows OSes decided to stop > listing filesystems that did not need "Safely Remove" behavior, but > the changes to that OS may have been reversed. That’s the thing. Windows is full of assumptions as to which kinds of devices are allowed to have which kinds of filesystems installed on them, which kinds are to be hot-pluggable and which are not. For example, are you allowed to put NTFS on a hot-pluggable volume? Somehow, I don’t think so. Linux doesn’t care, it lets you mix and match however you like.
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-15 20:29 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vr561l$kmfu$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81117 |
On Sat, 3/15/2025 6:20 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
> For example, are you allowed to put NTFS on a hot-pluggable volume?
> Somehow, I don’t think so.
>
> Linux doesn’t care, it lets you mix and match however you like.
Let's take a look at my Cruser Glide.
It was easily ejected, so I could move on to the next experiment.
It was used to distribute Windows Updates to three machines, so
it's been ejected and moved a number of times (two OSes times three
machines)
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/Dwg3ZfVQ/eject-ntfs-stick.gif
*******
Now, let us try a harder one. This is a Ubuntu installer, that's been
transferred to a USB stick. The
disktype.exe /dev/sdc
--- /dev/sdc
Block device, size 58.44 GiB (62746787840 bytes)
DOS/MBR partition map
Partition 1: 58.44 GiB (62746787328 bytes, 122552319 sectors from 1)
Type 0xEE (EFI GPT protective)
GPT partition map, 248 entries
Disk size 58.44 GiB (62746787840 bytes, 122552320 sectors)
Disk GUID 912294A3-3848-DC48-A737-FA399D28FB8B
Partition 1: 5.248 GiB (5635182592 bytes, 11006216 sectors from 64)
Type Basic Data (GUID A2A0D0EB-E5B9-3344-87C0-68B6B72699C7)
Partition Name "ISO9660"
Partition GUID 912294A3-3848-DC48-A736-FA399D28FB8B
ISO9660 file system
Volume name "Ubuntu 24.04 LTS amd64"
Preparer "XORRISO-1.5.4 2021.01.30.150001, LIBISOBURN-1.5.4, LIBISOFS-1.5.4, LIBBURN-1.5.4"
Data size 5.248 GiB (5635182592 bytes, 2751554 blocks of 2 KiB)
Joliet extension, volume name "Ubuntu 24.04 LTS"
Partition 2: 4.951 MiB (5191680 bytes, 10140 sectors from 11006280)
Type EFI System (FAT) (GUID 28732AC1-1FF8-D211-BA4B-00A0C93EC93B)
Partition Name "Appended2"
Partition GUID 912294A3-3848-DC48-A735-FA399D28FB8B
FAT12 file system (hints score 4 of 5)
Volume size 4.912 MiB (5150720 bytes, 2515 clusters of 2 KiB)
Volume name "ESP"
Partition 3: 300 KiB (307200 bytes, 600 sectors from 11016420)
Type Basic Data (GUID A2A0D0EB-E5B9-3344-87C0-68B6B72699C7)
Partition Name "Gap1"
Partition GUID 912294A3-3848-DC48-A734-FA399D28FB8B
Blank disk/medium
Partition 4: 53.18 GiB (57104400384 bytes, 111532032 sectors from 11018240)
Type Unknown (GUID AF3DC60F-8384-7247-8E79-3D69D8477DE4)
Partition Name ""
Partition GUID 4991DA38-3DE6-EF44-896A-450EFF4D1AF3
Ext3 file system
Volume name "writable"
UUID 921867F9-FE74-456A-87D0-18C13AEEC93A (DCE, v4)
Last mounted at "/root/var/crash"
Volume size 53.18 GiB (57104400384 bytes, 13941504 blocks of 4 KiB)
Partition 5: unused
ISO9660 file system
Volume name "Ubuntu 24.04 LTS amd64"
Preparer "XORRISO-1.5.4 2021.01.30.150001, LIBISOBURN-1.5.4, LIBISOFS-1.5.4, LIBBURN-1.5.4"
Data size 5.253 GiB (5640747008 bytes, 2754271 blocks of 2 KiB)
El Torito boot record, catalog at 950
Bootable non-emulated image, starts at 951, preloads 2 KiB
Platform 0x00 (x86), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
Bootable non-emulated image, starts at 2751570, preloads 4.951 MiB (5191680 bytes)
Platform 0xEF (EFI), System Type 0x00 (Empty)
FAT12 file system (hints score 4 of 5)
Volume size 4.912 MiB (5150720 bytes, 2515 clusters of 2 KiB)
Volume name "ESP"
Joliet extension, volume name "Ubuntu 24.04 LTS"
Now, the Windows Disk Management view of the thing. Total screwup,
but can still be ejected. It is in the Safely Remove meu.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/XvGLPxgZ/eject-mixed-stick.gif
Paul
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-16 01:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vr58t2$mpuu$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81118 |
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 20:29:40 -0400, Paul wrote: > Now, the Windows Disk Management view of the thing. Total screwup, > but can still be ejected. It is in the Safely Remove meu. Would you trust it to “safely remove” something it cannot even understand properly in the first place?
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-15 22:44 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <vr5dv7$r099$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81119 |
On Sat, 3/15/2025 9:18 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 20:29:40 -0400, Paul wrote: > >> Now, the Windows Disk Management view of the thing. Total screwup, >> but can still be ejected. It is in the Safely Remove meu. > > Would you trust it to “safely remove” something it cannot even understand > properly in the first place? > Yes, because anything with an erroneous or weird determination, does not get mounted. The partitions are not being listed in the upper portion of Disk Management, and that area is kinda the equivalent of /etc/mtab for listing things. Since the device isn't really mounted (that I could determine!), using the Safely Remove is more ceremony than with a purpose. But part of trying it, of using the control, is to see if the OS is in a weird state with respect to the device. Disk Management also has an Offline control for storage devices. And that can be used, if you discover a bug in something, and need a second method for "making a storage device safe". Paul
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-16 06:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vr5rbm$18t7a$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #81120 |
On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 22:44:54 -0400, Paul wrote: > Since the device isn't really mounted (that I could determine!), With Windows, you can never be sure ...
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