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Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices?

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  Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-11 09:14 +0000
    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-11 10:17 +0000
      Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-11 11:49 +0000
        Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-01-11 07:13 -0500
          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-11 13:09 +0000
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-11 07:23 -0600
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? FredW <fredw@ninmule.invalid> - 2019-01-11 14:28 +0100
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-11 13:59 +0000
                Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-11 09:22 -0600
        Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-01-11 04:27 -0800
          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-01-11 04:58 -0800
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-01-11 05:24 -0800
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-11 15:01 +0000
                Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-01-11 07:59 -0800
                  Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-01-11 08:12 -0800
                    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-13 04:21 +0000
                  Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-01-11 08:22 -0800
    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-11 13:58 +0000
      Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-11 14:23 +0000
        Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-11 17:02 +0000
          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-13 06:11 +0000
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-14 12:32 +0000
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-14 18:01 +0000
                Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-14 21:16 +0000
                  Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-15 20:42 +0000
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-17 01:00 -0600
                Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-17 11:37 +0000
                  Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-17 20:03 +0000
    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Big Al <Big_Al@invalid.com> - 2019-01-11 10:20 -0500
      Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-01-11 11:34 -0500
        Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Wildman <best_lay@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-11 15:54 -0600
          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Mike Easter <MikeE@ster.invalid> - 2019-01-11 14:33 -0800
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Wildman <best_lay@yahoo.com> - 2019-01-11 22:28 -0600
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-01-12 10:25 +0000
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Yrrah <Yrrah-aol@aol.invalid> - 2019-01-12 14:45 +0100
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 18:28 +0000
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-14 12:34 +0000
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 18:27 +0000
          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-01-11 17:34 -0500
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Martin Edwards <buzzard554@fastmail.co.uk> - 2019-01-13 14:09 +0000
          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Martin Edwards <buzzard554@fastmail.co.uk> - 2019-01-13 14:08 +0000
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-17 00:56 -0600
        Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Martin Edwards <buzzard554@fastmail.co.uk> - 2019-01-13 14:07 +0000
          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca> - 2019-01-13 10:07 -0600
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Martin Edwards <buzzard554@fastmail.co.uk> - 2019-01-14 07:40 +0000
      Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-13 05:23 +0000
        Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-17 00:50 -0600
          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-17 20:03 +0000
            Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-17 19:23 -0600
              Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-18 06:24 +0000
                Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-18 01:38 -0600
                  Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-18 14:24 +0000
                    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-18 09:06 -0600
                      Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-18 15:19 +0000
                        Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-01-18 15:28 +0000
                          Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-18 15:55 +0000
                        Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-18 09:31 -0600
                Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-18 13:58 +0000
                  Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-18 09:00 -0600
                    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-18 15:05 +0000
                      Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-18 09:28 -0600
                  Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2019-01-18 10:41 -0500
                    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-01-18 15:58 +0000
                Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? Wolf K <wolfmac@sympatico.ca> - 2019-01-18 10:33 -0500
                  Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-18 09:52 -0600
                    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-21 01:33 +0000
                      Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> - 2019-01-20 23:37 -0600
    Re: Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices? arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> - 2019-01-24 02:22 +0000

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#52595 — Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices?

Using only our own devices and our own LAN (i.e., no Internet whatsoever),
can we devise a free, ad free, cloud-free completely Internet-free
calendaring system that synchronizes our personal calendars on all our
devices when we're connected to our own personal LAN?

Is it possible?
How?

I think a successful solution would entail these 3 major steps:
1. Choosing good freeware for each platform (Linux, Windows, Android, iOS)
2. Choosing a single common cross-platform text format for import/export
3. Choosing a synchronization mechanism that works on our personal LAN

It deserves repeating what is NOT part of the desired solution:
a. The calendar app must stay off the Internet (i.e., absolutely no login)
b. The app must be free. It should be ad free. Open source is nice.
c. The app must be able to "sync" somehow, on your personal LAN

Making an attempt to choose the good freeware, how does this list look?
(Bear in mind there are billions of calendar apps but most require login!)

o *Ubuntu* (Rainlendar Lite?  Thunderbird Lightning? Is there better?)
  <http://www.rainlendar.net/download/rainlendar2-lite_2.14.2.b157-1_amd64.deb>
  <https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/lightning/versions/>

o *Windows* (Rainlendar Lite? Thunderbird Lightning? Is there better?)
  <http://www.rainlendar.net/download/Rainlendar-Lite-2.14.2-64bit.exe>
  <https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/thunderbird/releases/60.4.0/win32/en-US/Thunderbird%20Setup%2060.4.0.exe>

o *Android* (Simple Calendar? Tiny Calendar? Digi-Cal?)
  <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.calendar.pro/>
  <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appxy.tinycalendar>
  <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digibites.calendar>
  (Those are Android free calendar apps that don't require a login.)

o *iOS* (Tiny Calendar?
  <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tiny-calendar-sync-google/id514917848>
  (There are very few OS free calendar apps that don't require a log in.)

REFERENCES:
o The Best Calendar App for Linux
  <https://lifehacker.com/5882005/the-best-calendar-app-for-linux>
o 6 Best Calendar Apps for Linux Desktop
  <https://www.tecmint.com/best-calendar-apps-linux-desktop/>
o The Five Best Open Source Calendar Servers for Linux
  <https://www.linux.com/learn/five-best-open-source-calendar-servers-linux>
o Best Calendar apps for Windows 
  <https://www.thewindowsclub.com/10-best-calendar-apps-for-windows-10>
o Best Calendar Apps for Windows 10
  <https://www.windowscentral.com/best-calendar-apps-windows-10>
o The 10 Best Calendar Apps for 2019
  <https://zapier.com/blog/best-calendar-apps/>
o  The best calendar apps for Android and iOS 
  <https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/best-calendar-apps/>
o Best Calendar Apps
  <https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/442-best-calendar-apps.html#s2>
o Ditch your phone's default calendar for one of these apps
  <https://www.cnet.com/news/best-calendar-apps-ios-android/> 

RFC:
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4791>

In summary, I'm testing a few calendar apps, where the "server" must run on
BOTH Windows & Linux (as I'm mostly on Windows but often on Linux). 

It seems to me that the "simplest" solution is to (somehow) maintain a
master calendar file using a Windows/Linux dual-boot desktop on the
personal LAN using a standard format (ICS?) that each mobile device can
sync to when connected to the personal LAN.

Any suggestions for that basic common goal?

-- 
NOTE: I realize _most_ people do two things that are not part of this task:
1. They use  apps which use Google or Apple or Microsoft servers;
2. They log in to those Google or Apple or Microsoft servers.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#52596

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:14:33 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> Any suggestions for that basic common goal?

Nothing is automatic yet - but manual ICS file transfers worked nicely.

I ran a few tests, most of which failed for the expected reasons:
a. App required too much (e.g., Lightening needs Thunderbird)
b. App required a login (e.g., every software I tested on iOS)
c. App would NOT read in a given text ICS file (most wouldn't do it)
d. App was obnoxious (some of the Android software had ads)

I did try to install _just_ Lightening onto Windows, but Lightening seems
to want me to either add an xpi file to a Firefox-based browser (which is
not what I want) or to install Thunderbird email first (which also is not
what I want).

At the moment, this test DID work quite nicely ... but needs to be honed:
1. Installed Rainlendar2 on Windows 10 PC desktop (no ads, no logins)
2. On the PC desktop, I manually added an appointment on Windows 10
3. On the PC desktop, I saved that appointment to an ICS file.
[Note: I wanted _all_ the appointments - but this was only 1 event.]
[On a second test, I saw that I can select all events with Control+A.]

Then... to add that calendar item to the Android calendar...
4. On Android I installed Simple Calendar (no ads, no logins)
5. I connected Android to the PC over USB & slid the PC ICS file to Android
7. On Android, in Simple Calendar, I imported that ICS file successfully

Then...to add calendar entries on Android to bring back to the PC
8. On Android I manually added an event using Simple Calendar
9. In Simple Calendar, I also pressed "Add holidays" to add 12 USA holidays
10. In Simple Calendar, I exported ALL EVENTS to a single ICS file

Then... to load that Android ICS file on WIndows (which is easier)
11. On Windows, I rightclicked on Rainlendar > Manager > Import > file.ics
12. That successfully imported the dozen USA holidays & events to Windows

I couldn't get _any_ of that to work with iOS so I put that off to the side
for now. I didn't test Ubuntu yet, but I have no reason to believe that
Rainlendar wouldn't work the same on Ubuntu as it does with Windows.

In summary, I think these preliminary tests show 
A. I can create an event on Android or on the desktop (Windows/Linux).
B. I can export all events on one platform, and then import on another.
C. That's, at least, proof of concept (at least initially).

The file format that seems to work is "ics".
Later, I'll figure out how to sync the file automatically over WiFi.

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#52598

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:17:43 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> The file format that seems to work is "ics".
> Later, I'll figure out how to sync the file automatically over WiFi.

Do you have experience with "CalDAV" calendars?
Or maybe "WebCal" calendars?

I ran a dozen tests on iOS, none of which worked, but one of which
seemed promising because the same app is on _all_ the platforms
(Windows, Linux, Android, and iOS).
o One Calendar <http://www.onecalendar.nl/download/store>
   <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/OzUOmgJLmZs>

I like that "One Calendar" works on all common consumer platforms.

The main problem with "One Calendar" is that I don't see how to 
import/export the text ICS file that worked in my initial tests.

Worse, I'm unfamiliar with "CalDAV" or "WebCal" format on my PC, 
so I don't know if those two formats might play a role in a home calendar
setup.

"One Calendar" has 7 options, but none of those appear to be an "ics" file:
o Google calendar
o Microsoft calendar
o iCloud calendar
o Facebook events
o Exchange
o CalDAV calendars (this may be the most promising option)
o WebCal URL

Do you have experience with "CalDAV" calendars?
Or maybe "WebCal" calendars?

Do you think they might fit into this "home calendar" work in progress?
Are they easy to set up on Windows & Linux desktops over a home LAN?

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#52599

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 06:49:46 -0500, arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> wrote:

> Worse, I'm unfamiliar with "CalDAV" or "WebCal" format on my PC,
> so I don't know if those two formats might play a role in a home calendar
> setup.

If you're considering using it, review the basics ...
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4791
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV#Software

Regards, Dave Hodgins

-- 
Change dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org to davidwhodgins@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

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#52602

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 07:13:14 -0500, David W. Hodgins wrote:

> If you're considering using it, review the basics ...
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4791
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV#Software

What I need is someone with EXPERIENCE setting up a personal 
calendaring setup on a home network with both Windows & Linux.

I read both of those prior to posting, where the first is linked in the OP
(and which doesn't really help for what I'm doing), and the second is
almost useless since all it does is list 38 CalDAV servers (although it
gives generic links to 22 of those 38 tools).

This list is better though:
<https://devguide.calconnect.org/CalDAV/Server-Implementations/>
where out of that long list, only ONE CalDAV server works on Windows:
<https://owncloud.org/>

But even so ... lists of lists of lists is not what I'm asking for
(I can find lists of lists of lists of CalDAV servers all I want. 
That doesn't help design the system because
a. There are too many CalDAV servers to test, and, 
b. Most don't work on Windows anyway.

Best is if I can find someone with EXPERIENCE setting this up on both:
o Windows 10
o Ubuntu 18.04

For sure, I'll figure it out. Of that there is no doubt.
But I was _hoping_ someone here would have EXPERIENCE in setting it up.

For example, I've been looking to see if this will work on Windows:
<https://apereo.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/BWK310/overview>

But I'm hoping to get advice from someone with EXPERIENCE.

I repeat: I will always come up with a working solution.
I don't need the Usenet to come up with a working solution.

I need the Usenet to find someone who knows what he's talking about.
Just a couple of questions to _that_ person - will save weeks of effort!

What I'm looking for, mostly, is that EXPERIENCE which I don't have.
I can guess perhaps better than anyone here - but that's not the point.

Anyone who has ALREADY set up home calendaring, would know how.

Since I've never set it up, it's CRAZY to start without that experience.
(If nobody knows more than I do, then I'll will be forced to design it
myself - but that's just crazy to do if someone else has already done it.)

*The main decisions, of course, have ALREADY been made:*
o It's gonna work solely on a typical home network
o As efficiently as possible (Windows, Ubuntu, Android, & iOS)
o But mostly Windows/Android (since Linux/iOS are both problematic).

I've already made a few key decisions - mostly in a vacuum though.

As an example, a key question is whether to use Rainlendar2 or Lightening.
I chose Rainlendar2 because it's standalone - but maybe lightning works
better? That's experience I don't have (I used Lightening as an Outlook
replacement years ago - and never did I like Thunderbird - which I also
used as an NNTP client - and hated Thunderbird for that, for example).

Since I already have a manual solution working, the key is to automate it.
The biggest problem is finding the BEST CalDAV server for Windows.

For example, does the Microsoft one work well on a home network?
I don't know - but someone with EXPERIENCE would know instantly.

(It's easy to find CalDAV for Ubuntu but I need it to work for both.)
Most won't work with Windows, for example:
o https://radicale.org/download/ (seems to be Linux only)
o https://www.davical.org/ (is not recommended for Windows)
o https://www.apereo.org/projects/bedework/download (may work)
etc.

Anyway, my point is that there are TONS AND TONS AND TONS of
options. I know that.  I'm hoping to find someone with EXPERIENCE 
setting up a home calendaring system to cut down the sheer number.

The second point is that I'll figure it out. I can guess probably better 
than most of the people reading this can guess. The point is NOT to 
guess. The point is to find someone with EXPERIENCE setting up a home
calendaring system.

I probably should have approached this differently:
I probably should have asked something like...

Q: Have you set up a home calendaring system for Windows/Linux?
Q: If so, how did YOU do it? 

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#52603

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:09:17 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> wrote:

> I repeat: I will always come up with a working solution.
> I don't need the Usenet to come up with a working solution.

If such is the case then you are not only wasting our time but your own
as well.  If you /WILL/ come up with a solution and need no help from
the Usenet how about you just go ahead and /DO/ it while you just
shut up about it until it is done?

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
The truest characters of ignorance are vanity and pride and arrogance.
	Samuel Butler

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#52605

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 07:23:08 -0600, "Cybe R. Wizard"
<cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:09:17 -0000 (UTC)
>arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> wrote:
>
>> I repeat: I will always come up with a working solution.
>> I don't need the Usenet to come up with a working solution.
>
>If such is the case then you are not only wasting our time but your own
>as well.

Please stop feeding the troll.
He will keep asking questions whatever the answers.

-- 
Fred W. (nld)

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#52607

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 07:23:08 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

> If such is the case then you are not only wasting our time but your own
> as well.  If you /WILL/ come up with a solution and need no help from
> the Usenet how about you just go ahead and /DO/ it while you just
> shut up about it until it is done?

Why do you waste everyone's time, FredW and Cybe Wizard?

Clearly you both have absolutely no technical acumen on this subject.
So why do you post your incessantly worthless drivel, Cybe Wizard?

It's a technical question.
If you don't have a clue (which clearly you don't), then don't answer it.

Have you ever set up a home calendaring system, Cybe Wizard?
o If yes, then the question is HOW did you do it.
o If no, then there's nothing of any usable value that you can add.

I don't expect ANYONE here to know the answers -but they might.

They'd only know the answer if they had EXPERIENCE setting it up.
Otherwise, their guess is no better than mine.

I don't ask for any answers from anyone who has NOT done it.
There's nothing of value they can add if they've never done it.

It's really a simple question at this point.
o Has anyone here ever set up a Windows/Linux home calendar setup?
o Only if you have that EXPERIENCE ... I ask ... How did YOU do it?

If you have never set one up - then please do not respond.
It's OK to have a thread that nobody knows the answer to.

What's worse is when the trolls like FredW and Cybe Wizard infest it.
Please ... if you don't know what you're talking about - do NOT respond.

Only if you have EXPERIENCE setting up a home calendaring system
should you even THINK of responding to this TECHNICAL question.
o Have you ever set up a Windows/Linux home calendar setup?
o Only if you have ... how did you do it?

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#52612

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:59:29 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 07:23:08 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> 
> > If such is the case then you are not only wasting our time but your
> > own as well.  If you /WILL/ come up with a solution and need no
> > help from the Usenet how about you just go ahead and /DO/ it while
> > you just shut up about it until it is done?  
> 
> Why do you waste everyone's time, FredW and Cybe Wizard?
> 
> Clearly you both have absolutely no technical acumen on this subject.
> So why do you post your incessantly worthless drivel, Cybe Wizard?

Why do you snip your own obvious superiority:
----------
Arlo Holden said:
> I repeat: I will always come up with a working solution.
> I don't need the Usenet to come up with a working solution.  
----------
...when you have already stated that you have no need of anyone here?
Without a doubt you already have this well in hand.
> 
> It's a technical question.
> If you don't have a clue (which clearly you don't), then don't answer
> it.

Clearly I didn't answer it (are you OK and competent to read for
understanding?) nor did I attempt to do so since you have already stated
your own expertise and ability.  Why would I place my own meager bulb
beside your shining-brightly sun?  All I did was ask why you
post /ASKING/ when you so plainly already have the answers all in your
head?
> 
> Have you ever set up a home calendaring system, Cybe Wizard?
> o If yes, then the question is HOW did you do it.
> o If no, then there's nothing of any usable value that you can add.

...and according to you, no one can because you already have the
wherewithal to find a solution.
> 
> I don't expect ANYONE here to know the answers -but they might.

You are here seeking supposed peers?  But we all know you haven't any.
> 
> They'd only know the answer if they had EXPERIENCE setting it up.
> Otherwise, their guess is no better than mine.

Well...
> 
> I don't ask for any answers from anyone who has NOT done it.
> There's nothing of value they can add if they've never done it.
> 
> It's really a simple question at this point.
> o Has anyone here ever set up a Windows/Linux home calendar setup?
> o Only if you have that EXPERIENCE ... I ask ... How did YOU do it?
> 
> If you have never set one up - then please do not respond.
> It's OK to have a thread that nobody knows the answer to.

As to that, you don't get to decide when, where, or if I will respond,
so just fuck right on off, won't you?
> 
> What's worse is when the trolls like FredW and Cybe Wizard infest it.
> Please ... if you don't know what you're talking about - do NOT
> respond.

Nah, I think that I'll go on going on doing just as I please.  If that
displeases you, /GREAT!/

As I DO know what I'm talking about (your own superiority) I'm
cleared to post, is that right?  Thank you /SO/ much for your approval!
> 
> Only if you have EXPERIENCE setting up a home calendaring system

I don't, nor do I care to as I have google doing that for me.  Why
re-invent a thing that works well?

> should you even THINK of responding to this TECHNICAL question.

...and I /DID NOT/ do that or anything like that.  Maybe you could read
for comprehension just once in a while.

> o Have you ever set up a Windows/Linux home calendar setup?
> o Only if you have ... how did you do it?

I'm just here questioning your own purpose in asking questions to which
you have stated that you already know or will soon discern the answers.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
It is extremely arrogant and very foolish to think that you can ever
outwit your audience. 
	Twyla Tharp

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#52600

aol only

arlen holder wrote:
> I'm unfamiliar with "CalDAV" or "WebCal" format on my PC,
> so I don't know if those two formats might play a role in a home calendar
> setup.

There's a wp article on caldav that relates it to webdav and to numerous 
clients, which clients can also be seen (wayback) here 
https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20160523203324/http://caldav.calconnect.org/implementations/clients.html 


I don't know anything about this business, but it seems to me that if 
you are going to have multiple clients on your own network, whether they 
are multiple/different OS or not, that something is going to have to be 
the server for the clients.  The wp article also discusses caldav 
servers as well as clients.

There's an example of a discussion on a moz group that illustrates my 
point about server and also addresses caldav:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1132918  How to synchronize 
calendars?

-- 
Mike Easter

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#52601

Mike Easter wrote:
> if you are going to have multiple clients on your own network, whether 
> they are multiple/different OS or not, that something is going to have 
> to be the server for the clients.

Radicale sounds like a simple caldav server for linux, py driven, and it 
is in the repos for Ub and is kin.

Also:

https://radicale.org/clients/
// Radicale has been tested with:

     Android with DAVdroid
     GNOME Calendar, Contacts and Evolution
     Mozilla Thunderbird with CardBook and Lightning
     InfCloud, CalDavZAP and CardDavMATE //



-- 
Mike Easter

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#52604

Mike Easter wrote:

> Radicale sounds like a simple caldav server for linux, py driven, and it 
> is in the repos for Ub and is kin.
> 
This radicale page discusses how to run radicale as a service on linux, 
Win, and macos using systemd linux, launchd mac, and NSSM non-sucking 
service manager Win.

https://radicale.org/setup/  Basic Setup


-- 
Mike Easter

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#52610

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 05:24:48 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

> This radicale page discusses how to run radicale as a service on linux,

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your advice, which, as usual, is on the mark.

It's intersting that your first link suggests BOTH approaches 
that I independently hit upon, namely:
<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1132918>
   1. "CalDAV is the eprotocol used for network calendars"
  2. Or, sync with DropBox using ICS files.

While I completely understand that sentiment to use "DropBox", 
I don't want to use the Internet at all - but - what I can do is use
a shared SMB folder - but that means I have to root Android - and - worse -
who knows what that means for iOS.

That means it's better to just bite the bullet on setting up a CalDAV
server on Windows/Linux instead of "sharing" the ICS files.

Unfortunately, most of the CalDAV servers are only for Linux:
 <https://www.calendarserver.org>

The white paper you posted on CalDAV clients is useful, but I spent the
entire night testing two dozen clients already, where I found a few that
worked (none on iOS though) so I'm past that stage now. :)
<https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20160523203324/http://caldav.calconnect.org/implementations/clients.html >

Two reasons I'm not worried about the clients so much are:
1. I already have some clients working, and, 
2. Even so, I think I'll end up using the "One Calendar" client
simply because it is said to work on all common consumer platforms:
<http://www.onecalendar.nl/download/store>

I originally went down a different path, testing two dozen clients.
I got the best of them working just fine - but - the sync is manual.
Manual sync works. But manual sync sucks. :)

Since getting calendar clients to work on Linux/Windows & Android was so
easy, I didn't realize the need for CalDAV server software until I started
testing a dozen iOS clients.

After a couple of hours, I realized that I only have 2 fundamental choices:
a. Kludge together an "rsync" of specific *.ics files (Rube Goldberg style)
b. Or, do it right - which means - as you noted - a CalDAV server.

For me, unfortunately, I'm on Windows 80% of the time & Ubuntu 20%, 
so I would want a solution that works for both (which you'd think wouldn't
be too hard).

But it turns out that, when I read up on the twenty or so CalDAV server
software package, while EVERYTHING works on Ubuntu, almost nothing works on
Windows. For example, Radicale is highly rated - but it apparently doesn't
work also on Windows.

At the moment, there is only one CalDAV server that I know of that works on
both Windows & Linux - so that's where I'll put my effort. I can't work on
this until later tonight, but I hope to report some progress after I spend
a few hours setting up the OwnCloud CalDav server.

One offputting fact though is that folks say that setting up OwnCloud is
"incredibly complex", which isn't a good sign.

However, the good news is I have a working kludge already, using:
o Linux/Windows Rainlendar2 clients & Android Simple Calendar client
o Manual passing back and forth of ICS event files

After testing dozens of apps, I'm agreeing with you that CalDAV is likely
the way to go - where - the ONLY CalDAV server I know of at this time that
works on both Windows & Linux is "OwnCloud".

Also, the only free client that I know of that works on everything is "One
Calendar", but, if I omit the iOS requirement, lots more are available.

In summary, here's the status of the (constantly changing) plan:
1. Figure out how to set up OneCloud CalDAV on both Windows & Linux
2. Then use OneCalendar on Windows/Linux/Android/iOS as the client

-- 
I won't be able to work further on this until later tonight though, 
so I may not have results to report until the weekend. Hopefully,  as
always, when I'm done, I can possibly write a step-by-step tutorial so the
NEXT perfson can just do it in an hour instead of in a few days.

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#52613

arlen holder wrote:
> it turns out that, when I read up on the twenty or so CalDAV server
> software package, while EVERYTHING works on Ubuntu, almost nothing works on
> Windows. For example, Radicale is highly rated - but it apparently doesn't
> work also on Windows.

Not so.

I've posted a couple of radicale pages, one showing the clients it works 
with and one showing how to employ a service on linux, win, macos. 
Here's another installation page which shows installing on win and linux 
but only promises macos for later.  Excerpts after the link:

https://radicale.org/tutorial/
You want to try Radicale but only have 5 minutes free in your calendar? 
Let’s go right now!

(The linux install does it from the command line, but the install from 
the repos will work fine in your Ub.)

(The win install also does it from a command prompt if py3 is already 
onboard)


The basic install is

pip install radicale

The py site is helpful for learning how to install py packages on 
various platforms.
https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/installing-packages/


-- 
Mike Easter

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#52614

Mike Easter wrote:
> arlen holder wrote:
>> it turns out that, when I read up on the twenty or so CalDAV server
>> software package, while EVERYTHING works on Ubuntu, almost nothing 
>> works on
>> Windows. For example, Radicale is highly rated - but it apparently 
>> doesn't
>> work also on Windows.
> 
> Not so.
> 
> I've posted a couple of radicale pages, one showing the clients it works 
> with and one showing how to employ a service on linux, win, macos. 

Here's an excerpt from the .gz  package for 2.1.11

Radicale CalDAV and CardDAV server
==================================

The Radicale Project is a CalDAV (calendar) and CardDAV (contact) 
server.  It
aims to be a light solution, easy to use, easy to install, easy to 
configure.
As a consequence, it requires few software dependances and is 
pre-configured to
work out-of-the-box.

The Radicale Project runs on most of the UNIX-like platforms (Linux, BSD,
MacOS X) and Windows.  It is known to work with Evolution, Lightning, iPhone
and Android clients. It is free and open-source software, released under GPL
version 3.


-- 
Mike Easter

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#52628

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:12:49 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

> The Radicale Project runs on most of the UNIX-like platforms (Linux, BSD,
> MacOS X) and Windows.

Hi Mike,
Sorry I haven't responded sooner, as today I finally realized what I'm up
against - which isn't fitting into the original plan due to pragmatics.
1. Linux
2. Windows
3. iCalendar

Your advice, and the information you found, was, as usual, fantastic, and,
just as usual, your advice was crucial, where I've belatedly come to 3
fundamental "conclusions" based on the links you (& others) provided.

1. Fundamentally, *Linux is the (only) way to go*, with "NextCloud" or
"Radicale" being the top two to consider ("OwnCloud" having severe business
problems that NextCloud doesn't seem to have).

2. Fundamentally, Windows "can" be done (based on what you've unearthed) -
but - setting up *Windows CalDAV servers are likely not for mere mortals*
(particularly those who know nothing of Python) - and even so - in my 80/20
dual-boot situation - I'd _still_ need to interface with a Linux CalDAV
server. (So Windows is essentially out of the question, sadly.)

3. Fundamentally, *iCalendar text files work on all clients*, which, in the
short term works rather well for me simply because at any one point in
time, I'm either on the desktop (Windows 80%, Linux 20%) or on the mobile
device (Android 90%, iOS 10%) - where judiciously chosen clients can
export/import all events, en masse.

Hence, after deep rumination, I realize there are two "best" solutions...
A: Full-time Linux server (best)
B: Extemporaneous iCalendar files (second best)

*Full-time LINUX Server:*
A: The "best" server/client solution is obvious - which is to maintain a
full-time Linux server that the CalDav server runs on - which can be a
raspberry pi - or a spare old plugged-in laptop (of which I have plenty
whose batteries are dead).

*Extemporaneous iCalendar files:*
B. With or without a server, iCalendar *.ics files are perfect for passing
the entire set of extemporaneous events between clients. The only caveat is
that the client has to be "intelligently chosen" since most clients I've
tested do NOT both export and import iCalendar text files.

The list of free clients that do not import & export iCalendar files is,
surprisingly, immense (24 out of 25 don't import & export ICS files!), so I
will only list the clients that I've found that both import & export all
calendar events via *.ics text files (although I'm sure there are others).

*WINDOWS:*
a. Rainlendar2 (aka Rainlendar Lite)
b. Thunderbird <https://lettoknow.com/export-ics-to-thunderbird/>
c. Outlook <https://www.techhit.com/outlook/export_calendar_icalendar_ics.html>

*LINUX*
a. Rainlendar2 (aka Rainlendar Lite)
b. Thunderbird <https://lettoknow.com/export-ics-to-thunderbird/>

*ANDROID*
a. Simple Calendar (mine is the free pro version only on F-Droid)

*iOS*
a. I haven't found any Calendars yet that import/export *ics on iOS

NOTE: Every app shown above is both free & ad free.

In addition, on Android, there are 'odd' utilities that claim to somehow
(magically?) add import/export of ICS to other apps, but I'm not sure how
they can play a role (nor whether they're even needed since I already have
Simple Calendar working): I tested these only briefly...
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tk.drlue.icalimportexport>
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tk.drlue.icalimportexport.linkcatcher>

Note, for Android, AFAIK, there are 3 "Simple Calendar" tools to confuse:
FREE: <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplemobiletools.calendar>
FREE: <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.calendar.pro/>
PAID: <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplemobiletools.calendar.pro>

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#52615

Mike Easter wrote:
> Here's another installation page which shows installing on win and linux 
> but only promises macos for later.

Here's a page telling how to run python scripts on macos

https://www.maketecheasier.com/run-python-script-in-mac/  How to Run a 
Python Script on Mac

The 2018 Apr article assumes that your mac only has a py2 installed by 
default, but you need and can install a suitable py3 from such as here

https://www.python.org/downloads/mac-osx/
Python Releases for Mac OS X
     Latest Python 3 Release - Python 3.7.2


-- 
Mike Easter

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#52606

arlen holder wrote:
> Using only our own devices and our own LAN (i.e., no Internet whatsoever),
> can we devise a free, ad free, cloud-free completely Internet-free
> calendaring system that synchronizes our personal calendars on all our
> devices when we're connected to our own personal LAN?
>
> Is it possible?
> How?

Sure, setup a CalDav server.

> [...]
>
> It deserves repeating what is NOT part of the desired solution:
> a. The calendar app must stay off the Internet (i.e., absolutely no login)

Well, you have to authenticate to the CalDav server so it knows to give
you "Arlen's" calendar rather than someone else's, even if you're the
only user of it.


-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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#52609

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> Sure, setup a CalDav server.

Thanks for that suggestion, Dan Purgert.

I spent most of the night testing over two dozen apps, where my approach
was to first get single-system calendaring working on Linux, Windows, and
Android.  (So far, I haven't found a single-system calendar app on iOS.)

After testing two dozen apps, I only belatedly realized that the "proper"
solution is "probably" what you just said - which is to set up a CalDav
server on both Linux & Windows (depending on what I'm booted to at the
time).

Setting up a CalDAV server on linux looks to be a breeze.
So the effort is in finding a good free CalDAV server that works BOTH in
Windows and Linux.

At the moment, after reading up on over twenty of the different ones, I'm
leaning toward "OwnCloud", since it's the only personal calendaring server
(so far) that works on both Linux & Windows (that I know of at this point).
<https://owncloud.org/>

> Well, you have to authenticate to the CalDav server so it knows to give
> you "Arlen's" calendar rather than someone else's, even if you're the
> only user of it.

Thanks for that login/password advice, Dan, where, I think, once I set up
the Windows/Linux CalDav server, that it will have a login/password, which,
if I'm lucky, I can set to <blank>/<blank>, or, at worst "x/y", so that
authentication won't be an issue.

I get your point which is that "authentication" is required, but it can be
done on my own server. 

Only belatedly, after hours of testing the client software and latching on
to the following apps did I approach this from a "server" standpoint:
1. For Windows/Linux, the client is currently Rainlendar2.
2. For Android the client is currently Simple Calendar

The manual "ICS" file method works, but it's too manual.

Moving forward, I'm currently looking for a tutorial for setting up
"OwnCloud" as a CalDAV server, since it's the only server software, it
seems, that works on both Windows & Linux (so far).

This setup instruction set "may" work - but it's for a different situation:
o How to set up a CardDAV and CalDAV server on Windows 10 
 <https://outlookandmacosxserver.blogspot.com/2014/08/how-to-set-up-address-book-server-on.html>

This may be closer, but it's also set up for a different purpose:
o [TUTORIAL] Add native iCloud (IMAP, CardDAV, CalDav) support to WP8 GDR2 Devices!!
  <https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2478215>

This tutorial is for Linux, where it say "OwnCloud" is "incredibly
complex", so that's not a good sign though.

What that means is that it's not OBVIOUS which is the _simplest_
single-purposes CalDAV server that works on both Linux & Windows.

Only someone with EXPERIENCE would know the answer to the question of which
CalDAV server to sink time and energy into, that works well on both Linux
and Windows for simple calendaring to mobile devices and desktops on the
home LAN.

I'll eventually get that experience - but I'm hoping to find someone who
has done it already who can advise me on which server to use that is the
simplest to set up for both Windows & Linux.

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#52617

arlen holder wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> Sure, setup a CalDav server.
>
> Thanks for that suggestion, Dan Purgert.
>
> I spent most of the night testing over two dozen apps, where my approach
> was to first get single-system calendaring working on Linux, Windows, and
> Android.  (So far, I haven't found a single-system calendar app on iOS.)
>
> After testing two dozen apps, I only belatedly realized that the "proper"
> solution is "probably" what you just said - which is to set up a CalDav
> server on both Linux & Windows (depending on what I'm booted to at the
> time).

Don't do that. Means that you're either 

 - going to run the server database on NFTS 
 - have to find someway to sync the database with the two OSes
 - deal with putting in the data twice

Just run it straight on linux. Personally, I'd recommend a spare box
(slow doesn't really matter, so even a raspberry pi would be
sufficient); but if you can't swing that, a virtual machine where the
virtual harddrive is accessible to both linux and windows may work (NOTE
- same "writing to NTFS" downside applies).

>> [...]
>> Well, you have to authenticate to the CalDav server so it knows to give
>> you "Arlen's" calendar rather than someone else's, even if you're the
>> only user of it.
>
> Thanks for that login/password advice, Dan, where, I think, once I set up
> the Windows/Linux CalDav server, that it will have a login/password,
> which, if I'm lucky, I can set to <blank>/<blank>, or, at worst "x/y",
> so that authentication won't be an issue.

The ones I'm aware of require proper username / password, and many of
them have minimums that you have to follow (e.g. username must be 3
characters).  You're only ever putting it in once per device, so even
"arlen / password" wouldn't be the end of the world.

> I get your point which is that "authentication" is required, but it can be
> done on my own server. 

Of course, you're the guy running the show.

> Moving forward, I'm currently looking for a tutorial for setting up
> "OwnCloud" as a CalDAV server, since it's the only server software, it
> seems, that works on both Windows & Linux (so far).

Don't think Owncloud does caldav, but then I haven't dug _that_ deeply
into its featureset.  "Easily share pictures with non-computery family
WITHOUT using facebook" was really all I needed.

Calendaring is "good enough" via google (although it doesn't tie in well
with the PCs -- but then again, I don't maintain it on the PC).  I did
look into using my mailserver and hordemail's calendar features, but at
the time there were no android CalDav implementations.  Not that I
_don't_ have that calendar running; it's just that I can only get to it
via the webmail client.

Though you probably don't wanna go through the hassle of setting up /
securing a MTA to just get some calendars.

> [...]
> This tutorial is for Linux, where it say "OwnCloud" is "incredibly
> complex", so that's not a good sign though.

It is, but then again setting it up is a lot of "just follow the
directions to the letter and you'll be fine".

>
> What that means is that it's not OBVIOUS which is the _simplest_
> single-purposes CalDAV server that works on both Linux & Windows.

Generally, that's because CalDav servers are implemented as parts of
other tools (such as a webmail client).

-- 
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

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