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How do I hate systemd? Let me count the ways.

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  How do I hate systemd?  Let me count the ways. "Anon" <anonymous@anonymous.com> - 2019-01-25 08:44 -0600
    Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. "Anonymous Remailer (austria)" <mixmaster@remailer.privacy.at> - 2019-01-25 16:30 +0100
    Re: How do I hate systemd?  Let me count the ways. Yrrah <Yrrah-aolu@aolu.invalid> - 2019-01-25 17:12 +0100
      Re: How do I hate systemd?  Let me count the ways. Pedidos <2563769409@qq.com> - 2019-01-25 16:53 +0000
      Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Anonymous <anonymous@foto.nl1.torservers.net> - 2019-01-25 14:23 -0500
        Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-25 22:01 +0100
          Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-01-25 22:25 +0000
            Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Anonymous <nobody@remailer.paranoici.org> - 2019-01-26 00:44 +0100
            Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-01-26 00:44 +0000
              Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Austin <gscm708740@gmail.com> - 2019-01-26 11:31 +0000
              Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-26 13:52 +0100
              Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2019-01-26 11:30 -0600
                Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-01-26 20:04 +0000
                  Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-27 09:30 +0000
                Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2019-01-26 22:30 +0000
            Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-26 13:47 +0100
            Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-02-03 12:12 -0500
              Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. rlhamil@bigapple.pri (Richard L. Hamilton) - 2019-02-04 07:53 +0000
              Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Ventas <ventas@cartrackgps.net> - 2019-02-04 13:35 +0000
          Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-01-26 13:03 +0100
            Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-26 13:42 +0100
              Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2019-01-26 08:12 -0800
                Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-26 21:40 +0100
                Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2019-01-26 22:24 +0000
                  Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2019-01-27 07:44 +0000
              Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-01-27 00:06 +0100
                Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-27 04:19 +0100
                  Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-01-27 22:06 +0100
                    Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-01-27 23:04 +0100
                      Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-01-28 09:46 +0100
      Re: How do I hate systemd?  Let me count the ways. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-01-26 13:07 +0100
      Re: How do I hate systemd?  Let me count the ways. Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2019-01-26 23:17 +0100
    Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways. Anonymous <anonymous@foto.nl1.torservers.net> - 2019-01-25 12:51 -0500

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#53050 — How do I hate systemd? Let me count the ways.

system(d(angerous)
system(d(ark)
system(d(isguised)
system(d(amnable)
system(d(ank)
system(d(ark age)
system(d(arkling)
system(d(arkness)
system(d(ead)
system(d(ebatable)
system(d(eceptive)
system(d(eepshit)
system(d(elusive)
system(d(elusory)
system(d(eniable)
system(d(evilish)
system(d(evious)
system(d(im)
system(d(ire)
system(d(irty)
system(d(isgrace)
system(d(ishonest)
system(d(ismal)
system(d(isputable)
system(d(oom)
system(d(oubtable)
system(d(oubtful)
system(d(our)
system(d(rab)
system(d(read)
system(d(rearisome)
system(d(ubious)
system(d(upe)
system(d(ull)
system(d(umb)
system(d(umpish)

  I HATE systemd.

  People who like systemd are the same idiots that use Facebook and 
Twitter.  They are so into themselves that they couldn't care less 
about security.  They would use Chinese phones if they liked the 
features, even knowing that they are total spyware.  They are the type 
of fools who, upon a police request, would voluntarily go down to a 
police station to be isolated by cops in a little white room to be 
attacked for hours with accusations of having to had something to do 
with a crime.  They are the type that would gladly submit to a lie 
detector test, or even request to take one, even if knowing that the 
machine is totally unreliable.  They are like foolish women who know 
the dangers of trying drugs, only to become addicted whores walking the 
streets.

  How many fools are in the world?  Obviously most of the world is made 
up of fools, seeing how most all Linux distributions have forsaken the 
Linux principle of transparency and embraced this whore system.

  Thank God that He has spared BSD and Slackware (and created Devuan) 
from this wretched whore systemd.

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#53056 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

> 
> system(d(angerous)
> system(d(ark)
> system(d(isguised)
> system(d(amnable)
> system(d(ank)
> system(d(ark age)
> system(d(arkling)
> system(d(arkness)
> system(d(ead)
> system(d(ebatable)
> system(d(eceptive)
> system(d(eepshit)
> system(d(elusive)
> system(d(elusory)
> system(d(eniable)
> system(d(evilish)
> system(d(evious)
> system(d(im)
> system(d(ire)
> system(d(irty)
> system(d(isgrace)
> system(d(ishonest)
> system(d(ismal)
> system(d(isputable)
> system(d(oom)
> system(d(oubtable)
> system(d(oubtful)
> system(d(our)
> system(d(rab)
> system(d(read)
> system(d(rearisome)
> system(d(ubious)
> system(d(upe)
> system(d(ull)
> system(d(umb)
> system(d(umpish)
> 
> I HATE systemd.
> 
> People who like systemd are the same idiots that use Facebook and Twitter.  They are so into themselves that they couldn't care less about security.  They would use Chinese phones if they liked the features, even knowing that they are total spyware.  They are the type of fools who, upon a police request, would voluntarily go down to a police station to be isolated by cops in a little white room to be attacked for hours with accusations of having to had something to do with a crime.  They are the type that would gladly submit to a lie detector test, or even request to take one, even if knowing that the machine is totally unreliable.  They are like foolish women who know the dangers of trying drugs, only to become addicted whores walking the streets.
> 
> How many fools are in the world  Obviously most of the world is made up of fools, seeing how most all Linux distributions have forsaken the Linux principle of transparency and embraced this whore system.
> 
> Thank God that He has spared BSD and Slackware (and created Devuan) from this wretched whore systemd.

  There are absolutely zero VPS's that lease any Debian systems other than systemd now.

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#53057

"Anon" <anonymous@anonymous.com>

>   I HATE systemd.

Anon = Ike = Tech Systems = anonymous = Random = (...) = a pathetic
troll.


Yrrah

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#53061

In article <8bdm4eh00k70tcb89pndnvhd481a9hoh56@net.com>
Yrrah <Yrrah-aolu@aolu.invalid> wrote:

Flush.

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#53067 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

> 
> "Anon" <anonymous@anonymous.com>
> 
> 
>>   I HATE systemd.
> 
> Anon = Ike = Tech Systems = anonymous = Random = (...) = a pathetic
> troll.

  Troll or a fellow hater of systemd?

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#53073 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

On 25/01/2019 20.23, Anonymous wrote:
>>
>> "Anon" <anonymous@anonymous.com>
>>
>>
>>>   I HATE systemd.
>>
>> Anon = Ike = Tech Systems = anonymous = Random = (...) = a pathetic
>> troll.
> 
>   Troll or a fellow hater of systemd?

Troll.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53079 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

In article <02ashf-5no.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
<snipped>

Be that as it may, the fact is that I've yet to see any real defense of
systemd.  It's always: It's the ways things are going; get used to it; it's
not so bad.

Which is fine as far as it goes.  And, if the question is of the form:

    I want to work as a Linux system admin; what should I learn?

Then, the answer is clearly: Learn systemd, because that's where every
single major distro is headed.

But, and the point is, the defense of systemd always boils down to "It's
not so bad (you'll survive this)".  I've yet to see anybody say anything
like "It's great!  I love it! It allows me to do things I couldn't do
before!"

I think what happened is that, for whatever reasons, the powers that be
decided that the old SysV init system, while working fine, was just old.
And old don't pay da bills.  It needed to be replaced - with something.

RH stepped up to the plate.  It's a variation of the famous sig quote: We
must do something; this is something, etc etc.

There are, of course, numerous parallel examples in the world of computing.
Eventually, they get the new thing to work as well as the old thing.

At which point, it must be replaced by yet another new thing.

-- 
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long.  As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs.  In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
	http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Voltaire

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#53090 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

In article <q2g2db$154$1@news.xmission.com>
gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) wrote:
>
> In article <02ashf-5no.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> <snipped>
>
> Be that as it may, the fact is that I've yet to see any real defense of
> systemd.  It's always: It's the ways things are going; get used to it; it's
> not so bad.
>
> Which is fine as far as it goes.  And, if the question is of the form:
>
>     I want to work as a Linux system admin; what should I learn?
>
> Then, the answer is clearly: Learn systemd, because that's where every
> single major distro is headed.
>
> But, and the point is, the defense of systemd always boils down to "It's
> not so bad (you'll survive this)".  I've yet to see anybody say anything
> like "It's great!  I love it! It allows me to do things I couldn't do
> before!"
>
> I think what happened is that, for whatever reasons, the powers that be
> decided that the old SysV init system, while working fine, was just old.
> And old don't pay da bills.  It needed to be replaced - with something.
>
> RH stepped up to the plate.  It's a variation of the famous sig quote: We
> must do something; this is something, etc etc.
>
> There are, of course, numerous parallel examples in the world of computing.
> Eventually, they get the new thing to work as well as the old thing.
>
> At which point, it must be replaced by yet another new thing.
>
> --
> The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
> lines long.  As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs.  In order to remain
> in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
> 	http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/Voltaire

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53091 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

On 2019-01-25, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> In article <02ashf-5no.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
><snipped>
>
> Be that as it may, the fact is that I've yet to see any real defense of
> systemd.  It's always: It's the ways things are going; get used to it; it's
> not so bad.

Except I have seen many defenses of systemd. 1) parallel running of boot
programs, to vastly speed up booting. 2) a system to make fairly complex
dependencies of boot programs realatively easy to program and use. 

Now other boot systems also tried to do these things, which indicates
tht there was a need for them

Now, I am positive that you have also seen these defenses of systemd,
and your question thus becomes one made in bad faith. 


>
> Which is fine as far as it goes.  And, if the question is of the form:
>
>     I want to work as a Linux system admin; what should I learn?
>
> Then, the answer is clearly: Learn systemd, because that's where every
> single major distro is headed.

And they are headed there because systemd answers problems that all of
the distros recognized. Do you really think that the volunteers at all
major distros had so much time on their hands that they were searching
for more work to do? Because systemd WAS work. And it has problems (the
"database" rather than text based journals was just stupid.) and despite
those problems the distros decided to go over to systemd. 
>
> But, and the point is, the defense of systemd always boils down to "It's
> not so bad (you'll survive this)".  I've yet to see anybody say anything

Actually, I have never heard that defense as an actual defense of
systemd. 

> like "It's great!  I love it! It allows me to do things I couldn't do
> before!"
>
> I think what happened is that, for whatever reasons, the powers that be
> decided that the old SysV init system, while working fine, was just old.
> And old don't pay da bills.  It needed to be replaced - with something.

And was slow, and got complex and fragile one complex dependencies of
the boot programs came in. 

You are erecting a straw man ( with a very goofy face) and then
attacking that. 

>
> RH stepped up to the plate.  It's a variation of the famous sig quote: We
> must do something; this is something, etc etc.


>
> There are, of course, numerous parallel examples in the world of computing.
> Eventually, they get the new thing to work as well as the old thing.
>
> At which point, it must be replaced by yet another new thing.
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#53112 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

In article <q2gai5$m7u$1@dont-email.me>
William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
> On 2019-01-25, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> > In article <02ashf-5no.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
> > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> ><snipped>
> >
> > Be that as it may, the fact is that I've yet to see any real defense of
> > systemd.  It's always: It's the ways things are going; get used to it; it's
> > not so bad.
>
> Except I have seen many defenses of systemd. 1) parallel running of boot
> programs, to vastly speed up booting. 2) a system to make fairly complex
> dependencies of boot programs realatively easy to program and use.
>
> Now other boot systems also tried to do these things, which indicates
> tht there was a need for them
>
> Now, I am positive that you have also seen these defenses of systemd,
> and your question thus becomes one made in bad faith.
>
>
> >
> > Which is fine as far as it goes.  And, if the question is of the form:
> >
> >     I want to work as a Linux system admin; what should I learn?
> >
> > Then, the answer is clearly: Learn systemd, because that's where every
> > single major distro is headed.
>
> And they are headed there because systemd answers problems that all of
> the distros recognized. Do you really think that the volunteers at all
> major distros had so much time on their hands that they were searching
> for more work to do? Because systemd WAS work. And it has problems (the
> "database" rather than text based journals was just stupid.) and despite
> those problems the distros decided to go over to systemd.
> >
> > But, and the point is, the defense of systemd always boils down to "It's
> > not so bad (you'll survive this)".  I've yet to see anybody say anything
>
> Actually, I have never heard that defense as an actual defense of
> systemd.
>
> > like "It's great!  I love it! It allows me to do things I couldn't do
> > before!"
> >
> > I think what happened is that, for whatever reasons, the powers that be
> > decided that the old SysV init system, while working fine, was just old.
> > And old don't pay da bills.  It needed to be replaced - with something.
>
> And was slow, and got complex and fragile one complex dependencies of
> the boot programs came in.
>
> You are erecting a straw man ( with a very goofy face) and then
> attacking that.
>
> >
> > RH stepped up to the plate.  It's a variation of the famous sig quote: We
> > must do something; this is something, etc etc.
>
>
> >
> > There are, of course, numerous parallel examples in the world of computing.
> > Eventually, they get the new thing to work as well as the old thing.
> >
> > At which point, it must be replaced by yet another new thing.
> >

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#53118 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

On 26/01/2019 01.44, William Unruh wrote:
> On 2019-01-25, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>> In article <02ashf-5no.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> <snipped>
>>
>> Be that as it may, the fact is that I've yet to see any real defense of
>> systemd.  It's always: It's the ways things are going; get used to it; it's
>> not so bad.
> 
> Except I have seen many defenses of systemd. 1) parallel running of boot
> programs, to vastly speed up booting. 2) a system to make fairly complex
> dependencies of boot programs realatively easy to program and use. 

Maybe he refers to defence here, recently.

> 
> Now other boot systems also tried to do these things, which indicates
> tht there was a need for them
> 
> Now, I am positive that you have also seen these defenses of systemd,
> and your question thus becomes one made in bad faith. 

Yes, I saw many defences at the time of the change. Now I don't care. It
is done. Arguing against it is moot.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#53129 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

William Unruh writes:
> Except I have seen many defenses of systemd. 1) parallel running of boot
> programs, to vastly speed up booting. 2) a system to make fairly complex
> dependencies of boot programs realatively easy to program and use. 

> Now other boot systems also tried to do these things, which indicates
> tht there was a need for them

There were several proposed systems that would have done those things.

The entire sordid affair is well documented in the debian-dev archive.
Anyone who wasn't there but is interested in the history should read it
before commenting.

I don't think Systemd was the best choice but I do think it solved more
problems than it created.

Sysvinit was *broken*.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhasler@newsguy.com
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

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#53133 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

On 2019-01-26, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
> William Unruh writes:
>> Except I have seen many defenses of systemd. 1) parallel running of boot
>> programs, to vastly speed up booting. 2) a system to make fairly complex
>> dependencies of boot programs realatively easy to program and use. 
>
>> Now other boot systems also tried to do these things, which indicates
>> tht there was a need for them
>
> There were several proposed systems that would have done those things.
>
> The entire sordid affair is well documented in the debian-dev archive.
> Anyone who wasn't there but is interested in the history should read it
> before commenting.

The Debian-dev archive is huge.  A more specific pointer to where to
look would have been useful.
>
> I don't think Systemd was the best choice but I do think it solved more
> problems than it created.

I think it was an example of "A bird in the hand..." -- the people
writing systemd created it more rapidly as a complete system than the
others I think. 

>
> Sysvinit was *broken*.

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#53182 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> writes:
> On 2019-01-26, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> William Unruh writes:
>>> Except I have seen many defenses of systemd. 1) parallel running of boot
>>> programs, to vastly speed up booting. 2) a system to make fairly complex
>>> dependencies of boot programs realatively easy to program and use. 
>>>
>>> Now other boot systems also tried to do these things, which indicates
>>> tht there was a need for them
>>
>> There were several proposed systems that would have done those things.
>> 
>> The entire sordid affair is well documented in the debian-dev archive.
>> Anyone who wasn't there but is interested in the history should read it
>> before commenting.
>
> The Debian-dev archive is huge.  A more specific pointer to where to
> look would have been useful.

I posted the pointer to alt.os.linux, about a week ago.

>> I don't think Systemd was the best choice but I do think it solved more
>> problems than it created.
>
> I think it was an example of "A bird in the hand..." -- the people
> writing systemd created it more rapidly as a complete system than the
> others I think. 

Upstart and OpenRC were already deployed, as defaults in widely used
platforms, by the time of the Debian init system debate. (So was launchd
but I don’t think that was ever in with a real chance in Linux.)

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#53146 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

On 2019-01-26, John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I don't think Systemd was the best choice but I do think it solved more
> problems than it created.

There are certainly things about it I don't care for (particularly the
way it has spread into other areas aside from init) but so far in my
case it has not caused any problems.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
  Don't talk to cops!             -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
  Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#53117 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

On 25/01/2019 23.25, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <02ashf-5no.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>,
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> <snipped>
> 
> Be that as it may, the fact is that I've yet to see any real defense of
> systemd.  It's always: It's the ways things are going; get used to it; it's
> not so bad.

Why should I defend it? What is the point? Will it change anything?

> 
> Which is fine as far as it goes.  And, if the question is of the form:
> 
>     I want to work as a Linux system admin; what should I learn?
> 
> Then, the answer is clearly: Learn systemd, because that's where every
> single major distro is headed.
> 
> But, and the point is, the defense of systemd always boils down to "It's
> not so bad (you'll survive this)".  I've yet to see anybody say anything
> like "It's great!  I love it! It allows me to do things I couldn't do
> before!"
> 
> I think what happened is that, for whatever reasons, the powers that be
> decided that the old SysV init system, while working fine, was just old.
> And old don't pay da bills.  It needed to be replaced - with something.

On openSUSE they just asked people to step forward to maintain SysV.
None did, so forward systemd. Simple as that.

> 
> RH stepped up to the plate.  It's a variation of the famous sig quote: We
> must do something; this is something, etc etc.
> 
> There are, of course, numerous parallel examples in the world of computing.
> Eventually, they get the new thing to work as well as the old thing.
> 
> At which point, it must be replaced by yet another new thing.
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#53522 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:

>
> Then, the answer is clearly: Learn systemd, because that's where every
> single major distro is headed.
>
> But, and the point is, the defense of systemd always boils down to "It's
> not so bad (you'll survive this)".  I've yet to see anybody say anything
> like "It's great!  I love it! It allows me to do things I couldn't do
> before!"
>
> I think what happened is that, for whatever reasons, the powers that be
> decided that the old SysV init system, while working fine, was just old.
> And old don't pay da bills.  It needed to be replaced - with something.

I'm not the "powers that be," but having been a Solaris admin and having
used SMF, I wanted something equivalent for Linux.

So maybe I should be using McCormackInitd? I assume that you're not just
whinging and that you've written an init system that's better than
systemd?

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#53535 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

In article <N9adnZ22ELKGvMrBnZ2dnUU7-dnNnZ2d@supernews.com>,
	Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> writes:
> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:
> 
>>
>> Then, the answer is clearly: Learn systemd, because that's where every
>> single major distro is headed.
>>
>> But, and the point is, the defense of systemd always boils down to "It's
>> not so bad (you'll survive this)".  I've yet to see anybody say anything
>> like "It's great!  I love it! It allows me to do things I couldn't do
>> before!"
>>
>> I think what happened is that, for whatever reasons, the powers that be
>> decided that the old SysV init system, while working fine, was just old.
>> And old don't pay da bills.  It needed to be replaced - with something.
> 
> I'm not the "powers that be," but having been a Solaris admin and having
> used SMF, I wanted something equivalent for Linux.

Most of the code is doubtless available, if under CDDL license rather
than GPL or BSD.  Probably the hardest part would be that it also
requires the kernel "contract" mechanism, to maintain control over
even processes that have daemonized themselves by traditional means (a
process can escape from a contract if needed, e.g. for sshd child
processes not to be killed when the ssh service is restarted).  Given
that mechanism, it's one of the nice things about SMF when contrasted
with e.g. launchd on a Mac; one very rarely has to change traditional
daemons to play by SMF's rules, whereas with launchd, they're not
supposed to redirect stdin, stdout, stderr, nor to background
themselves; and launchd does little to help with dependencies, mostly
expecting the daemons to deal with being started even if their
dependencies aren't yet satisfied.

(It might be possible to modify SMF to work with Linux cgroups(7) instead
of Solaris contract(7) and related libraries; I haven't seen a comparison
of the two facilities, although in some respects, cgroups might be more
powerful, being able to control resource consumption as well as to just keep
track of processes and kill a group of related ones.)

> So maybe I should be using McCormackInitd? I assume that you're not just
> whinging and that you've written an init system that's better than
> systemd?

-- 

-- 
ftp> get |fortune
377 I/O error: smart remark generator failed

Bogonics: the primary language inside the Beltway

Lasik/PRK theme music:
    "In the Hall of the Mountain King", from "Peer Gynt"
(read act 2, scene 6 of the play if that doesn't make sense)

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#53538 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

In article <N9adnZ22ELKGvMrBnZ2dnUU7-dnNnZ2d@supernews.com>
Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes:
>
> >
> > Then, the answer is clearly: Learn systemd, because that's where every
> > single major distro is headed.
> >
> > But, and the point is, the defense of systemd always boils down to "It's
> > not so bad (you'll survive this)".  I've yet to see anybody say anything
> > like "It's great!  I love it! It allows me to do things I couldn't do
> > before!"
> >
> > I think what happened is that, for whatever reasons, the powers that be
> > decided that the old SysV init system, while working fine, was just old.
> > And old don't pay da bills.  It needed to be replaced - with something.
>
> I'm not the "powers that be," but having been a Solaris admin and having
> used SMF, I wanted something equivalent for Linux.
>
> So maybe I should be using McCormackInitd? I assume that you're not just
> whinging and that you've written an init system that's better than
> systemd?

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#53113 — Re: How do I hate systemd Let me count the ways.

In article <02ashf-5no.ln1@Telcontar.valinor>
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
> On 25/01/2019 20.23, Anonymous wrote:
> >>
> >> "Anon" <anonymous@anonymous.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>>   I HATE systemd.
> >>
> >> Anon = Ike = Tech Systems = anonymous = Random = (...) = a pathetic
> >> troll.
> >
> >   Troll or a fellow hater of systemd?
>
> Troll.

We don't like Mexicans either.

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