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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #154948 > unrolled thread

Happy Dec-10 Day!!!

Started by"Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com>
First post2015-12-10 04:15 -0600
Last post2015-12-11 14:53 -0600
Articles 9 on this page of 69 — 23 participants

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  Happy Dec-10 Day!!! "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-12-10 04:15 -0600
    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-12-10 10:22 +0000
      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-10 13:31 -0500
        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-10 15:23 -0500
    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-10 10:45 +0000
      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-10 13:30 -0500
        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-10 18:49 +0000
          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-10 19:15 +0000
            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-10 14:42 -0500
              Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-12-10 12:45 -0700
                Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-10 23:48 +0000
                  Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-10 23:09 -0500
                Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-12-11 14:56 -0600
              Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-12-11 06:10 -0800
                Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-11 16:21 +0000
                  Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-11 14:43 -0500
                    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-11 21:56 +0000
                      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-12 04:51 +0000
                      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-12 08:11 -0500
                        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-13 13:50 -0800
                          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-14 00:05 +0000
                            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-13 21:48 -0500
                    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-12-11 21:34 -0800
                      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-12-12 08:38 +0000
                        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-12 10:47 -0500
                          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-12 18:41 +0000
                            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-13 02:33 +0000
                              Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2015-12-13 23:48 -0600
                                Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-14 19:39 +0000
                            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-13 10:12 +0000
                              Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-13 12:54 -0500
                          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-12-14 09:19 +0000
                            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-12-14 14:31 +0000
                          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2015-12-14 19:05 -0400
                      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-12 11:31 +0000
                        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-12 10:52 -0500
                          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2015-12-12 09:59 -0600
                            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-12 11:50 -0500
                        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-12-12 12:14 -0800
                          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-12 21:37 -0500
                          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-13 02:37 +0000
                            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-12-12 22:55 -0600
                              Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-13 00:02 -0500
                                Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-13 10:24 +0000
                                  Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-12-13 13:59 -0800
                                    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-14 06:09 -0500
                              Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-12-13 10:18 +0000
                                Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-13 11:20 +0000
                                  Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-13 15:50 +0000
                                    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-13 18:41 +0000
                                  Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-12-13 11:35 -0800
                              Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! mausg@mail.com - 2015-12-13 10:17 +0000
                          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-13 15:50 +0000
                            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-13 12:58 -0500
                  Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-12-11 15:01 -0600
                    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-12-11 21:36 -0800
                Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-12-11 14:31 -0500
        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-12-10 19:11 +0000
    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2015-12-10 15:49 -0400
      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-12-10 17:07 -0600
        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-12-10 20:31 -0500
          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-12-11 13:35 +0000
          Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-12-11 06:14 -0800
            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-12-11 13:48 -0500
            Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-12-11 15:07 -0600
    Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-12-10 12:01 -0800
      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! Bill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2015-12-10 23:22 +0000
        Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-12-11 11:01 +0000
      Re: Happy Dec-10 Day!!! "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-12-11 14:53 -0600

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#155001

FromRich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Date2015-12-10 20:31 -0500
Message-ID<mddio45ai0a.fsf@panix5.panix.com>
In reply to#154990
Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> writes:

> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

>> "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> writes:

>>> Happy Dec-10 Day!!!   Seems like this comes around *every* year!!! ;-)

>> But you missed (OT here) Takeda Shingen's birthday on Dec. 1.  Did DEC
>> make a "DEC 1"?

To answer Mr. Spencer's question more accurately, no.

> Technically, none of their machines were named the "DEC-anything"

> There were commercially sold PDP 1,4,5,6,8,9,10,11, and 15.

Technically, you have no idea what you're talking about.  To begin with, you
left out the PDP-7, the PDP-12, the PDP-14, and the PDP-16.  We won't even get
into the number of variants of the PDP-8, PDP-11, and PDP-15 families existed,
but there were a 7A and a 9/L as well.

When DEC introduced the 2nd generation PDP-10, they already had 16 designs
designated "PDP-n", with 14 actually manufactured.  DEC's marketing department
decided that Yet Another PDP-n was too many, and christened the KI-10 based
computer the "system-10".

Whoops.  Singer--yes, the sewing machine company--was already selling an
industrial control computer which they called the system-10.  In 1971, people
didn't fight over trademarks the way they do now; instead, DEC negotiated with
Singer to use a variant of the name, and christened the KI-10 machine the

				 DECsystem-10

This was immediately shortened by customers (and no doubt by DEC employees when
not being fastidious) to "DEC-10".

It was never sold under the rubric "PDP-10".

The 3rd generation KL-10 processor (1974) was brought out both as new model of
the DECsystem-10 and as the DECSYSTEM-20; the KS-10 minicomputer (1979) was the
DECSYSTEM-2020.

When Digital brought out a server-class version of their MIPS R2000 based
workstation (the DECstation-3100), it was labeled the DECsystem-3100.

-- 
Rich Alderson                                   news@alderson.users.panix.com
    the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
    to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...

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#155018

Fromjmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date2015-12-11 13:35 +0000
Message-ID<PM0005269FB3D7690A@aca40294.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to#155001
Rich Alderson wrote:
> Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> writes:
>
>> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
>
>>> "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> writes:
>
>>>> Happy Dec-10 Day!!!   Seems like this comes around *every* year!!! ;-)
>
>>> But you missed (OT here) Takeda Shingen's birthday on Dec. 1.  Did DEC
>>> make a "DEC 1"?
>
> To answer Mr. Spencer's question more accurately, no.
>
>> Technically, none of their machines were named the "DEC-anything"
>
>> There were commercially sold PDP 1,4,5,6,8,9,10,11, and 15.
>
> Technically, you have no idea what you're talking about.  To begin with, you
> left out the PDP-7, the PDP-12, the PDP-14, and the PDP-16.  We won't even
get
> into the number of variants of the PDP-8, PDP-11, and PDP-15 families
existed,
> but there were a 7A and a 9/L as well.
>
> When DEC introduced the 2nd generation PDP-10, they already had 16 designs
> designated "PDP-n", with 14 actually manufactured.  DEC's marketing
department
> decided that Yet Another PDP-n was too many, and christened the KI-10 based
> computer the "system-10".
>
> Whoops.  Singer--yes, the sewing machine company--was already selling an
> industrial control computer which they called the system-10.  In 1971,
people
> didn't fight over trademarks the way they do now; instead, DEC negotiated
with
> Singer to use a variant of the name, and christened the KI-10 machine the
>
>                  DECsystem-10

I was the one who edited all the docs for this product.  The lawyers kept
changing their minds about how to spell the word.  One week, I'd get
a request to change all the occurences of DECsystem-10 to DECSYSTEM-10.
The next week I'd get another request to change DECSYSTEM-10 to
DECsystem-10.  IIRC, the docs went through 4, maybe 5, switches until
I put my foot down and stated that I would not be doing any more edits
until they made up their mind.  Since I hated the look of DECSYSTEM-10,
I strongly suggested DECsystem-10.

>
> This was immediately shortened by customers (and no doubt by DEC employees
when
> not being fastidious) to "DEC-10".
>
> It was never sold under the rubric "PDP-10".
>
> The 3rd generation KL-10 processor (1974) was brought out both as new model
of
> the DECsystem-10 and as the DECSYSTEM-20; the KS-10 minicomputer (1979) was
the
> DECSYSTEM-2020.

There were arguments about DECSYSTEM-2020, too, but I wasn't involved so
I don't know the details.  It shouldn't have been 2020.

>
> When Digital brought out a server-class version of their MIPS R2000 based
> workstation (the DECstation-3100), it was labeled the DECsystem-3100.
>

/BAH

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#155020

FromQuadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
Date2015-12-11 06:14 -0800
Message-ID<135496e4-4a53-415c-8b2f-6e40fb32a710@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#155001
On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 6:31:03 PM UTC-7, Rich Alderson wrote:

> Whoops.  Singer--yes, the sewing machine company--was already selling an
> industrial control computer which they called the system-10.  In 1971, people
> didn't fight over trademarks the way they do now; instead, DEC negotiated with
> Singer to use a variant of the name, and christened the KI-10 machine the

> 				 DECsystem-10

> This was immediately shortened by customers (and no doubt by DEC employees when
> not being fastidious) to "DEC-10".

> It was never sold under the rubric "PDP-10".

Given that it was a compatible successor to the *KA-10*, which most definitely 
_was_ sold as a PDP-10, however, it would still have been regarded as a form of 
PDP-10 by people at that time; unlike a "PDP-20", which indeed is but a fantasy 
name for the DECsystem 2000-series machines, a PDP-10 is most definitely a 
thing.

Since someone already mentioned the Halloween-Christmas equivalence on this 
thread, it can be noted that we can celebrate the PDP-10 on October 12th as 
well.

John Savard

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#155047

FromRich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Date2015-12-11 13:48 -0500
Message-ID<mddwpskkei0.fsf@panix5.panix.com>
In reply to#155020
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:

> On Thursday, December 10, 2015 at 6:31:03 PM UTC-7, Rich Alderson wrote:

>> Whoops.  Singer--yes, the sewing machine company--was already selling an
>> industrial control computer which they called the system-10.  In 1971,
>> people didn't fight over trademarks the way they do now; instead, DEC
>> negotiated with Singer to use a variant of the name, and christened the
>> KI-10 machine the

>> 				 DECsystem-10

>> This was immediately shortened by customers (and no doubt by DEC employees
>> when not being fastidious) to "DEC-10".

>> It was never sold under the rubric "PDP-10".

> Given that it was a compatible successor to the *KA-10*, which most
> definitely _was_ sold as a PDP-10, however, it would still have been regarded
> as a form of PDP-10 by people at that time; unlike a "PDP-20", which indeed
> is but a fantasy name for the DECsystem 2000-series machines, a PDP-10 is
> most definitely a thing.

A.  It's not the "DECsystem 2000-series".  It's the DECSYSTEM-20 family.  Using
    the notation of the early PDP-10 literature, that's 20/40, 20/50, 20/60,
    20/20, and 20/65.  Slashes got dropped fairly early on, so these are
    written 2040, 2050, 2060, 2020, and 2065.

2.  The original poster was claiming (in something I quoted and you snipped)
    that later machines were not sold under a "DEC-n" name, but only under
    "PDP-10".  That's as silly as saying, for example, that IBM never sold
    their midrange mainframes under a 43xx, but only as System/370.  OK?

iii. I intended to mention that the KL-10 follow-on system codenamed "Jupiter"
     was originally called the DECSYSTEM-2090, but I have in my possession
     binders labeled "DECsystem-4050 Sales Training Seminar".

Four. DEC themselves recognized clones as PDP-10 systems, from Foonly, Xerox
      PARC, Systems Concepts, and XKL, meaning that "PDP-10" had become the
      name of an architecture rather than a product line.

-- 
Rich Alderson                                   news@alderson.users.panix.com
    the russet leaves of an autumn oak/inspire once again the failed poet/
    to take up his pen/and essay to place his meagre words upon the page...

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#155063

From"Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com>
Date2015-12-11 15:07 -0600
Message-ID<n4fdqe$4r6$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#155020
"Quadibloc" <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message 
news:135496e4-4a53-415c-8b2f-6e40fb32a710@googlegroups.com...
>
>                 [snip...]                          [snip...] 
> [snip...]
>
> Since someone already mentioned the Halloween-Christmas equivalence on 
> this
> thread, it can be noted that we can celebrate the PDP-10 on October 12th 
> as
> well.
>

This is quite fitting, since the 36-bit DEC systems prefered octal addresses 
and such.  So October 12th is the PDP-Octal-12 Day!!!  :-)

-- 

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

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#154983

FromGene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net>
Date2015-12-10 12:01 -0800
Message-ID<dfmj6bpp12dbrg74lslgquin36ptklaf49@4ax.com>
In reply to#154948
On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 04:15:58 -0600, "Charles Richmond"
<numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

>Happy Dec-10 Day!!!   Seems like this comes around *every* year!!! ;-)

     It is also Ada Lovelace's 200th birthday today.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#154993

FromBill Findlay <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date2015-12-10 23:22 +0000
Message-ID<628342062.471482238.534791.yaldnif.w-blueyonder.co.uk@news.individual.net>
In reply to#154983
Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 04:15:58 -0600, "Charles Richmond"
> <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> 
>> Happy Dec-10 Day!!!   Seems like this comes around *every* year!!! ;-)
> 
>      It is also Ada Lovelace's 200th birthday today.

And the 35th birthday of the Ada programming language, which,
unlike Ada King, is alive and kicking.

-- 
Bill Findlay

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#155017

From"gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid>
Date2015-12-11 11:01 +0000
Message-ID<n4eaad$j3g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#154993
"Bill Findlay" <yaldnif.w@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:628342062.471482238.534791.yaldnif.w-blueyonder.co.uk@news.individual.net...
> Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 04:15:58 -0600, "Charles Richmond"
>> <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Happy Dec-10 Day!!!   Seems like this comes around *every* year!!! ;-)
>>
>>      It is also Ada Lovelace's 200th birthday today.
>
> And the 35th birthday of the Ada programming language, which,
> unlike Ada King, is alive and kicking.

Whereas nowadays, Beethoven is decomposing?

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#155060

From"Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com>
Date2015-12-11 14:53 -0600
Message-ID<n4fcvg$1g3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#154983
"Gene Wirchenko" <genew@telus.net> wrote in message 
news:dfmj6bpp12dbrg74lslgquin36ptklaf49@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 04:15:58 -0600, "Charles Richmond"
> <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
>>Happy Dec-10 Day!!!   Seems like this comes around *every* year!!! ;-)
>
>     It is also Ada Lovelace's 200th birthday today.
>

Aha!!!  I *knew* Ada Lovelace had something to do with the development of 
the PDP-10!!!

-- 

numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

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