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Re: Where do byte orders come from

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  Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-24 03:51 -0700
    Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-24 03:54 -0700
      Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-24 04:00 -0700
      Re: Where do byte orders come from John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-24 15:54 +0000
        Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-24 09:23 -0700
        Re: Where do byte orders come from Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 17:28 +0100
          Re: Where do byte orders come from Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 09:56 -0700
            Re: Where do byte orders come from Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2020-07-24 14:08 -0400
              Re: Where do byte orders come from robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-07-24 17:54 -0700
              Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 01:57 -0700
                Re: Where do byte orders come from Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 11:57 +0100
                  Re: Where do byte orders come from John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-25 17:23 +0000
                  Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 11:39 -0700
                    Re: Where do byte orders come from Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 14:43 -0700
                      Re: Where do byte orders come from Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-07-25 22:21 +0000
                        Re: Where do byte orders come from John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-25 22:49 +0000
                      Re: Where does PDP-11 floating point come from John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-25 22:34 +0000
                Re: Where do byte orders come from Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2020-07-25 14:38 -0400
                  Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 11:42 -0700
                    Re: Where do byte orders come from Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2020-07-26 17:11 -0400
                    Re: Where do byte orders come from Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2020-07-26 17:13 -0400
                    Re: Where do byte orders come from Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> - 2020-07-26 17:15 -0400
                      Re: Where do byte orders come from Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-26 16:22 -0700
                        Re: Where do byte orders come from Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 06:35 +0100
                          Re: Where do byte orders come from Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-27 11:42 -0700
                            Re: Where do byte orders come from JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2020-07-27 13:54 -0500
                        Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-27 00:37 -0700
                          Re: Where do byte orders come from Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-27 09:05 +0100
                            Re: Where do byte orders come from "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2020-07-27 11:27 +0000
                            Re: Where do byte orders come from JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2020-07-27 10:27 -0500
                              Re: Where do byte orders come from Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-07-27 20:45 -0400
                                Re: Where do byte orders come from JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 09:24 -0500
                                  Re: Where do byte orders come from Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 17:30 +0000
                                    Re: Where do byte orders come from JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 15:56 -0500
                            Re: Where do byte orders come from Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-07-27 22:34 +0100
                        Re: Where do byte orders come from Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2020-08-02 12:00 +0200
                          Re: Where do byte orders come from JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 14:02 -0500
                            Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-02 15:03 -0700
                              Re: Where do byte orders come from John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-08-02 22:59 +0000
                              Re: Where do byte orders come from Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-08-03 06:57 +0000
                              Re: Where do byte orders come from maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-08-08 22:21 +0000
                                Re: Where do byte orders come from Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-08-09 16:50 -0400
                                  Re: Where do byte orders come from maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-08-10 23:07 +0000
                                    Re: Where do byte orders come from J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-10 19:14 -0400
                                      Re: How did byte order get to horses? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-10 20:39 -0400
                                        Re: How did byte order get to horses? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-10 20:51 -0400
                                          Re: How did byte order get to horses? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-10 22:38 -0400
                                            Re: How did byte order get to horses? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-10 22:50 -0400
                                              Re: How did byte order get to horses? robin.vowels@gmail.com - 2020-08-10 20:35 -0700
                                    Re: Where do byte orders come from Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-08-11 03:42 -0300
                            Re: Where do byte orders come from Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-03 07:45 -0700
                              Re: Where do byte orders come from JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-03 13:45 -0500
                                Re: Where do byte orders come from Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2020-08-06 23:47 -0400
                          Re: Where do byte orders come from Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-02 21:58 +0000
                          Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-08-02 15:04 -0700
                  Re: Where do byte orders come from Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-25 14:43 -0700
                    Re: Where do byte orders come from John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-25 22:35 +0000
                    Re: Where do byte orders come from Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2020-07-25 16:54 -0600
                    Re: Where do byte orders come from Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-26 09:43 +0100
                      Re: Where do byte orders come from Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-26 05:54 -0700
            Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 02:03 -0700
              Re: Where do byte orders come from Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-25 10:54 +0100
                Re: Where do byte orders come from John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-25 17:25 +0000
          Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-24 10:32 -0700
            Re: Where do byte orders come from Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-24 11:45 -0700
              Re: Where do byte orders come from scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-07-24 19:32 +0000
                Re: Where do byte orders come from Richard Milward <rsmilward@gmail.com> - 2020-10-07 12:45 -0700
            Re: Where do byte orders come from Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-24 20:54 +0100
              Re: Where do byte orders come from Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-07-25 01:55 -0700
            Re: Where do byte orders come from Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 16:40 -0400
          Re: Where do byte orders come from John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-07-24 19:30 +0000
        Re: Where do byte orders come from Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-07-24 21:06 +0100

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

#212586

On 2020-08-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>
>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
>
> Neither one. Egyptian hieroglyphics are usually written from right to left like
> Hebrew, but they can occasionally be written the other way.
>
> Boustrophedon was used in writing Greek at a very early stage in the development
> of the written form of the language, and that's about it.
>
> John Savard

AFAIK 'Boust*' meant something as the way one would plough a field,
plough to the edge then switch the ox and plough to plow directly back.

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#212620

maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:

> On 2020-08-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:

>>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?

>> Neither one. Egyptian hieroglyphics are usually written from right to left
>> like Hebrew, but they can occasionally be written the other way.

>> Boustrophedon was used in writing Greek at a very early stage in the
>> development of the written form of the language, and that's about it.

>> John Savard

> AFAIK 'Boust*' meant something as the way one would plough a field,
> plough to the edge then switch the ox and plough to plow directly back.

Close.  It derives from _bous_ "ox" (< PIE *g{^w}ou-s) + _strep{^h}ein "to
turn" ( < PIE *strebh- "turn").  The first _o_ in _strop{^h}edon_ is part of
the nominalization process, going all the way back to Proto-Indo-European.  The
word itself is a noun meaning "the turning of the ox".

-- 
Rich Alderson					  news@alderson.users.panix.com
      Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
	  omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
									--Galen

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#212646

On 2020-08-09, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>
>> On 2020-08-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>
>>>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>>>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
>
>>> Neither one. Egyptian hieroglyphics are usually written from right to left
>>> like Hebrew, but they can occasionally be written the other way.
>
>>> Boustrophedon was used in writing Greek at a very early stage in the
>>> development of the written form of the language, and that's about it.
>
>>> John Savard
>
>> AFAIK 'Boust*' meant something as the way one would plough a field,
>> plough to the edge then switch the ox and plough to plow directly back.
>
> Close.  It derives from _bous_ "ox" (< PIE *g{^w}ou-s) + _strep{^h}ein "to
> turn" ( < PIE *strebh- "turn").  The first _o_ in _strop{^h}edon_ is part of
> the nominalization process, going all the way back to Proto-Indo-European.  The
> word itself is a noun meaning "the turning of the ox".
>

Having plowed with a horse once, instructed by my future Father in law,
you start about 10 feet from the edge, plow to the far edge of the field
leaving a 'headland' unplowed (about 10 ten feet again), get the plow
out of the ground,  turn horse and plow to the opposite direction.
point it into the  ground again  again turning a 'sod' to face
the sod that you have turned on the other side. repeat. Surprisingly
skillful and somewhat like arranging letters on a page.

Sometime soon, the world will run out of fuel oil, and people  will
have to learn  it all again. I will look down, or up, and laugh.

Oh, did someone complain about irrelevence.?

I was in Ugarit once. That sea gate is eerie.

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#212648

On 10 Aug 2020 23:07:44 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

>On 2020-08-09, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 2020-08-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>
>>>>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>>>>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
>>
>>>> Neither one. Egyptian hieroglyphics are usually written from right to left
>>>> like Hebrew, but they can occasionally be written the other way.
>>
>>>> Boustrophedon was used in writing Greek at a very early stage in the
>>>> development of the written form of the language, and that's about it.
>>
>>>> John Savard
>>
>>> AFAIK 'Boust*' meant something as the way one would plough a field,
>>> plough to the edge then switch the ox and plough to plow directly back.
>>
>> Close.  It derives from _bous_ "ox" (< PIE *g{^w}ou-s) + _strep{^h}ein "to
>> turn" ( < PIE *strebh- "turn").  The first _o_ in _strop{^h}edon_ is part of
>> the nominalization process, going all the way back to Proto-Indo-European.  The
>> word itself is a noun meaning "the turning of the ox".
>>
>
>Having plowed with a horse once, instructed by my future Father in law,
>you start about 10 feet from the edge, plow to the far edge of the field
>leaving a 'headland' unplowed (about 10 ten feet again), get the plow
>out of the ground,  turn horse and plow to the opposite direction.
>point it into the  ground again  again turning a 'sod' to face
>the sod that you have turned on the other side. repeat. Surprisingly
>skillful and somewhat like arranging letters on a page.
>
>Sometime soon, the world will run out of fuel oil, and people  will
>have to learn  it all again. I will look down, or up, and laugh.

I keep hearing about that "sometime soon" and yet oil production just
keeps increasing.

However what leads you to believe that running out of fuel oil will
result in farming with horses?  Are you familiar with something called
"electricity"?

>Oh, did someone complain about irrelevence.?
>
>I was in Ugarit once. That sea gate is eerie.

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#212649 — Re: How did byte order get to horses?

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On 10 Aug 2020 23:07:44 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>>On 2020-08-09, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2020-08-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>>>>>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
>>>
>>>>> Neither one. Egyptian hieroglyphics are usually written from right to left
>>>>> like Hebrew, but they can occasionally be written the other way.
>>>
>>>>> Boustrophedon was used in writing Greek at a very early stage in the
>>>>> development of the written form of the language, and that's about it.
>>>
>>>>> John Savard
>>>
>>>> AFAIK 'Boust*' meant something as the way one would plough a field,
>>>> plough to the edge then switch the ox and plough to plow directly back.
>>>
>>> Close.  It derives from _bous_ "ox" (< PIE *g{^w}ou-s) + _strep{^h}ein "to
>>> turn" ( < PIE *strebh- "turn").  The first _o_ in _strop{^h}edon_ is part of
>>> the nominalization process, going all the way back to Proto-Indo-European.  The
>>> word itself is a noun meaning "the turning of the ox".
>>>
>>
>>Having plowed with a horse once, instructed by my future Father in law,
>>you start about 10 feet from the edge, plow to the far edge of the field
>>leaving a 'headland' unplowed (about 10 ten feet again), get the plow
>>out of the ground,  turn horse and plow to the opposite direction.
>>point it into the  ground again  again turning a 'sod' to face
>>the sod that you have turned on the other side. repeat. Surprisingly
>>skillful and somewhat like arranging letters on a page.
>>
>>Sometime soon, the world will run out of fuel oil, and people  will
>>have to learn  it all again. I will look down, or up, and laugh.
>
> I keep hearing about that "sometime soon" and yet oil production just
> keeps increasing.
>
> However what leads you to believe that running out of fuel oil will
> result in farming with horses?  Are you familiar with something called
> "electricity"?

I've been switching all my gasoline powered stuff to battery powered.
It's like night and day.  Since I got the EGO battery powered, self
propelled lawn mower I mow every chance I get.

I had a working 2 cycle weed whacker.  Damn thing was the hardest to
start tool I ever had except for the chain saw.  Tossing it out and
replacing it with battery powered was another good move.  Now my
lawns have actual edges.

Also have battery tiller and hedge trimmer.  This stuff is great.
The electric line powered chain saw is pretty good to.  I've got
about 200 ft of extension cords.

The electric power washer is pretty cool too.

Horses?  No freaking way.

Just waiting for Tesla to come out with a model I really like
for the solar panels on my roof.  Not that I need to do that,
there are solar panels all over NJ.


-- 
Dan Espen

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#212650 — Re: How did byte order get to horses?

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:39:51 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 10 Aug 2020 23:07:44 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2020-08-09, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2020-08-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>>>>>>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
>>>>
>>>>>> Neither one. Egyptian hieroglyphics are usually written from right to left
>>>>>> like Hebrew, but they can occasionally be written the other way.
>>>>
>>>>>> Boustrophedon was used in writing Greek at a very early stage in the
>>>>>> development of the written form of the language, and that's about it.
>>>>
>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>>> AFAIK 'Boust*' meant something as the way one would plough a field,
>>>>> plough to the edge then switch the ox and plough to plow directly back.
>>>>
>>>> Close.  It derives from _bous_ "ox" (< PIE *g{^w}ou-s) + _strep{^h}ein "to
>>>> turn" ( < PIE *strebh- "turn").  The first _o_ in _strop{^h}edon_ is part of
>>>> the nominalization process, going all the way back to Proto-Indo-European.  The
>>>> word itself is a noun meaning "the turning of the ox".
>>>>
>>>
>>>Having plowed with a horse once, instructed by my future Father in law,
>>>you start about 10 feet from the edge, plow to the far edge of the field
>>>leaving a 'headland' unplowed (about 10 ten feet again), get the plow
>>>out of the ground,  turn horse and plow to the opposite direction.
>>>point it into the  ground again  again turning a 'sod' to face
>>>the sod that you have turned on the other side. repeat. Surprisingly
>>>skillful and somewhat like arranging letters on a page.
>>>
>>>Sometime soon, the world will run out of fuel oil, and people  will
>>>have to learn  it all again. I will look down, or up, and laugh.
>>
>> I keep hearing about that "sometime soon" and yet oil production just
>> keeps increasing.
>>
>> However what leads you to believe that running out of fuel oil will
>> result in farming with horses?  Are you familiar with something called
>> "electricity"?
>
>I've been switching all my gasoline powered stuff to battery powered.
>It's like night and day.  Since I got the EGO battery powered, self
>propelled lawn mower I mow every chance I get.
>
>I had a working 2 cycle weed whacker.  Damn thing was the hardest to
>start tool I ever had except for the chain saw.  Tossing it out and
>replacing it with battery powered was another good move.  Now my
>lawns have actual edges.
>
>Also have battery tiller and hedge trimmer.  This stuff is great.
>The electric line powered chain saw is pretty good to.  I've got
>about 200 ft of extension cords.
>
>The electric power washer is pretty cool too.
>
>Horses?  No freaking way.
>
>Just waiting for Tesla to come out with a model I really like
>for the solar panels on my roof.  Not that I need to do that,
>there are solar panels all over NJ.

I am gonna do that for sure, as much for the PowerWalls as the solar.
Second time in 10 years I've had to toss out a refrigerator full of
food because Eversource can't keep the trees trimmed back.  Of course
the idiot town doesn't help-have to tidy up that ugly tree you know,
never mind that doing so is going to bust the power line that's
tangled up in it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#212651 — Re: How did byte order get to horses?

J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:39:51 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 10 Aug 2020 23:07:44 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2020-08-09, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2020-08-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>>>>>>>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neither one. Egyptian hieroglyphics are usually written from right to left
>>>>>>> like Hebrew, but they can occasionally be written the other way.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Boustrophedon was used in writing Greek at a very early stage in the
>>>>>>> development of the written form of the language, and that's about it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAIK 'Boust*' meant something as the way one would plough a field,
>>>>>> plough to the edge then switch the ox and plough to plow directly back.
>>>>>
>>>>> Close.  It derives from _bous_ "ox" (< PIE *g{^w}ou-s) + _strep{^h}ein "to
>>>>> turn" ( < PIE *strebh- "turn").  The first _o_ in _strop{^h}edon_ is part of
>>>>> the nominalization process, going all the way back to Proto-Indo-European.  The
>>>>> word itself is a noun meaning "the turning of the ox".
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Having plowed with a horse once, instructed by my future Father in law,
>>>>you start about 10 feet from the edge, plow to the far edge of the field
>>>>leaving a 'headland' unplowed (about 10 ten feet again), get the plow
>>>>out of the ground,  turn horse and plow to the opposite direction.
>>>>point it into the  ground again  again turning a 'sod' to face
>>>>the sod that you have turned on the other side. repeat. Surprisingly
>>>>skillful and somewhat like arranging letters on a page.
>>>>
>>>>Sometime soon, the world will run out of fuel oil, and people  will
>>>>have to learn  it all again. I will look down, or up, and laugh.
>>>
>>> I keep hearing about that "sometime soon" and yet oil production just
>>> keeps increasing.
>>>
>>> However what leads you to believe that running out of fuel oil will
>>> result in farming with horses?  Are you familiar with something called
>>> "electricity"?
>>
>>I've been switching all my gasoline powered stuff to battery powered.
>>It's like night and day.  Since I got the EGO battery powered, self
>>propelled lawn mower I mow every chance I get.
>>
>>I had a working 2 cycle weed whacker.  Damn thing was the hardest to
>>start tool I ever had except for the chain saw.  Tossing it out and
>>replacing it with battery powered was another good move.  Now my
>>lawns have actual edges.
>>
>>Also have battery tiller and hedge trimmer.  This stuff is great.
>>The electric line powered chain saw is pretty good to.  I've got
>>about 200 ft of extension cords.
>>
>>The electric power washer is pretty cool too.
>>
>>Horses?  No freaking way.
>>
>>Just waiting for Tesla to come out with a model I really like
>>for the solar panels on my roof.  Not that I need to do that,
>>there are solar panels all over NJ.
>
> I am gonna do that for sure, as much for the PowerWalls as the solar.
> Second time in 10 years I've had to toss out a refrigerator full of
> food because Eversource can't keep the trees trimmed back.  Of course
> the idiot town doesn't help-have to tidy up that ugly tree you know,
> never mind that doing so is going to bust the power line that's
> tangled up in it.

This year the power company came by and offered to remove trees
that were threatening their lines for free.  I had a large oak
with some rot in it removed.

On our block we had dozens of trees come down in the last storm.
That oak would have probably been one of them.

I'm wondering if a power wall is necessary.
Wouldn't the car battery do the same thing?
All I really need is power for the furnace, a few lights, and
the microwave.

-- 
Dan Espen

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#212652 — Re: How did byte order get to horses?

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:38:53 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:39:51 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 10 Aug 2020 23:07:44 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 2020-08-09, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>> maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2020-08-02, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:03:36 PM UTC-6, JimP wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>>>>>>>>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Neither one. Egyptian hieroglyphics are usually written from right to left
>>>>>>>> like Hebrew, but they can occasionally be written the other way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Boustrophedon was used in writing Greek at a very early stage in the
>>>>>>>> development of the written form of the language, and that's about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AFAIK 'Boust*' meant something as the way one would plough a field,
>>>>>>> plough to the edge then switch the ox and plough to plow directly back.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Close.  It derives from _bous_ "ox" (< PIE *g{^w}ou-s) + _strep{^h}ein "to
>>>>>> turn" ( < PIE *strebh- "turn").  The first _o_ in _strop{^h}edon_ is part of
>>>>>> the nominalization process, going all the way back to Proto-Indo-European.  The
>>>>>> word itself is a noun meaning "the turning of the ox".
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Having plowed with a horse once, instructed by my future Father in law,
>>>>>you start about 10 feet from the edge, plow to the far edge of the field
>>>>>leaving a 'headland' unplowed (about 10 ten feet again), get the plow
>>>>>out of the ground,  turn horse and plow to the opposite direction.
>>>>>point it into the  ground again  again turning a 'sod' to face
>>>>>the sod that you have turned on the other side. repeat. Surprisingly
>>>>>skillful and somewhat like arranging letters on a page.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sometime soon, the world will run out of fuel oil, and people  will
>>>>>have to learn  it all again. I will look down, or up, and laugh.
>>>>
>>>> I keep hearing about that "sometime soon" and yet oil production just
>>>> keeps increasing.
>>>>
>>>> However what leads you to believe that running out of fuel oil will
>>>> result in farming with horses?  Are you familiar with something called
>>>> "electricity"?
>>>
>>>I've been switching all my gasoline powered stuff to battery powered.
>>>It's like night and day.  Since I got the EGO battery powered, self
>>>propelled lawn mower I mow every chance I get.
>>>
>>>I had a working 2 cycle weed whacker.  Damn thing was the hardest to
>>>start tool I ever had except for the chain saw.  Tossing it out and
>>>replacing it with battery powered was another good move.  Now my
>>>lawns have actual edges.
>>>
>>>Also have battery tiller and hedge trimmer.  This stuff is great.
>>>The electric line powered chain saw is pretty good to.  I've got
>>>about 200 ft of extension cords.
>>>
>>>The electric power washer is pretty cool too.
>>>
>>>Horses?  No freaking way.
>>>
>>>Just waiting for Tesla to come out with a model I really like
>>>for the solar panels on my roof.  Not that I need to do that,
>>>there are solar panels all over NJ.
>>
>> I am gonna do that for sure, as much for the PowerWalls as the solar.
>> Second time in 10 years I've had to toss out a refrigerator full of
>> food because Eversource can't keep the trees trimmed back.  Of course
>> the idiot town doesn't help-have to tidy up that ugly tree you know,
>> never mind that doing so is going to bust the power line that's
>> tangled up in it.
>
>This year the power company came by and offered to remove trees
>that were threatening their lines for free.  I had a large oak
>with some rot in it removed.
>
>On our block we had dozens of trees come down in the last storm.
>That oak would have probably been one of them.
>
>I'm wondering if a power wall is necessary.
>Wouldn't the car battery do the same thing?
>All I really need is power for the furnace, a few lights, and
>the microwave.

Then I'd have to buy the car, and I'm not completely sure I want a
Tesla.  I'm kind of on the fence about it.

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#212653 — Re: How did byte order get to horses?

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 12:50:20 PM UTC+10, J. Clarke wrote:
> 
> Then I'd have to buy the car, and I'm not completely sure I want a
> Tesla.  I'm kind of on the fence about it.

Electric fence?

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#212654

maus <maus@dmaus.org> writes:

> Having plowed with a horse once, instructed by my future Father in law,
> you start about 10 feet from the edge, plow to the far edge of the field
> leaving a 'headland' unplowed (about 10 ten feet again), get the plow
> out of the ground,  turn horse and plow to the opposite direction.
> point it into the  ground again  again turning a 'sod' to face
> the sod that you have turned on the other side. repeat. Surprisingly
> skillful and somewhat like arranging letters on a page.

The walking plow I used 40 years ago had a feature such that after
turning the horse & plow but before beginning the furrow, you lifted
the handles of the plow and kicked a latch.  The moldboard flipped
from one side to the other without moving the plow point.  Then the
ensuing furrow's sod was turned in the same direction as the previous
one.  Repeat on each turn.

There's evidence in old farms around here that many fields were
repeatedly plowed turning the sod down hill, presumably because it was
slightly (significantly?) less work for the horse.  Over a generation
or two the result was to move the entire field's topsoil down hill,
leaving the upper part of the field with little or no topsoil.  An
interesting curiosity about which I've been unable to ask the people
who knew.  By the time I came to it, a few old timers knew how to do
it but it was their fathers or grandfathers who had actually worked
the land with a walking plow.

> Sometime soon, the world will run out of fuel oil, and people  will
> have to learn  it all again.

It took a thousand years and an industrial revolution based on copious
supplies of raw materials to achieve what we now think of a primitive
self-reliance. 

> I will look down, or up, and laugh.
> 
> Oh, did someone complain about irrelevence.?
> 
> I was in Ugarit once. That sea gate is eerie.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

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#212516

JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:00:27 +0200, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
> wrote:
>> On So 26 Jul 2020 at 16:22, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 12:38:17 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> That would require knowing how they write their numbers.  I don't, do you?
>>>>> 
>>>>> As a matter of fact, as a coin collector, yes, I know that old coins from India,
>>>>> Thailand, Burma and so on that have dates written using their versions of the
>>>>> digits from India have the most significant digit on the left.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, that's interesting.  Seems human language endianess was arrived
>>>> at fairly randomly, not unlike the case of computer hardware.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think it has to do with right-hand/left-hand bias. We haven’t even talked
>>> about scripts written from top to bottom.
>> 
>> And then there is also boustrophedon (????????????) where the direction
>> changes after each line.
>> 
>> 'Andreas
> 
> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
> 

Some early Greek, maybe Linear B.

-- 
Pete

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#212527

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 07:45:29 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:00:27 +0200, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
>> wrote:
>>> On So 26 Jul 2020 at 16:22, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 12:38:17 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That would require knowing how they write their numbers.  I don't, do you?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As a matter of fact, as a coin collector, yes, I know that old coins from India,
>>>>>> Thailand, Burma and so on that have dates written using their versions of the
>>>>>> digits from India have the most significant digit on the left.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks, that's interesting.  Seems human language endianess was arrived
>>>>> at fairly randomly, not unlike the case of computer hardware.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I think it has to do with right-hand/left-hand bias. We haven?t even talked
>>>> about scripts written from top to bottom.
>>> 
>>> And then there is also boustrophedon (????????????) where the direction
>>> changes after each line.
>>> 
>>> 'Andreas
>> 
>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?
>> 
>
>Some early Greek, maybe Linear B.

Must have been Linear B then. Likely discussing the Rosetta Stone in a
documentary.

-- 
Jim

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#212558

JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 07:45:29 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:00:27 +0200, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On So 26 Jul 2020 at 16:22, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> Doesn't Sumerian cuneiform change direction on each line ? Or was that
>>> Egyptian hyroglpyhics ?

>> Some early Greek, maybe Linear B.

> Must have been Linear B then. Likely discussing the Rosetta Stone in a
> documentary.

Linear B was not written boustrophedon.  It was early in the development of the
Greek alphabet from the Pheonician syllabary; the very earliest use of this to
write Greek was right to left, like its ancestor.

-- 
Rich Alderson					  news@alderson.users.panix.com
      Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
	  omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
									--Galen

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#212505

On 2020-08-02, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:
> On So 26 Jul 2020 at 16:22, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, July 25, 2020 at 12:38:17 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That would require knowing how they write their numbers.  I don't, do you?
>>>>
>>>> As a matter of fact, as a coin collector, yes, I know that old coins
>>>> from India, Thailand, Burma and so on that have dates written using
>>>> their versions of the digits from India have the most significant digit
>>>> on the left.
>>>
>>> Thanks, that's interesting.  Seems human language endianess was arrived
>>> at fairly randomly, not unlike the case of computer hardware.
>>
>> I think it has to do with right-hand/left-hand bias. We haven’t even talked
>> about scripts written from top to bottom.
>
> And then there is also boustrophedon (βουστροφηδόν) where the direction
> changes after each line.

I remember once reading a tongue-in-cheek article about boustropohedon
.rotide eht ot srettel gnisuma rehtar fo rebmun a dereggirt tI  .sretnirp

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

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#212508

On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 4:15:03 AM UTC-6, Andreas Eder wrote:

> And then there is also boustrophedon (βουστροφηδόν) where the direction
> changes after each line.

They would probably also reverse how numbers were written in alternating lines, so 
the script would still be associated with a specific endianness.

John Savard

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#212360

Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
> 
>> On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 12:08:27 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> 
>>>> Big-endian is the way people think of numbers, otherwise you’d write
>>>> amounts like 00.000,1$ for a thousand dollars.
>> 
>>> When writing Arabic* that's exactly how it's done.  That is, the digit
>>> order is the same as it is in Latin script, which is opposite the letter
>>> order for words.  Although "arabic numerals" is perhaps a misattribution
>>> it does seem that that is whence they were adopted by Europeans.  It
>>> seems they just got the endianness wrong -- to be consistent they should
>>> have reversed the order.
>> 
>> Ah, but the languages of India are written from left to right, like ours. So the 
>> Arabs got the order wrong, and Europeans corrected it!
> 
> That would require knowing how they write their numbers.  I don't, do you?

How are abacuses (abaci?) organized. My impression is big-endian.
> 
>> But you _are_ right that it is going too far to say that big-endian is "the way 
>> humans think of numbers".
>> 
>> John Savard
> 



-- 
Pete

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#212365

In article <2109925314.617405978.747165.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>,
>How are abacuses (abaci?) organized. My impression is big-endian.

It's entirely up to the operator.  There's no mechanical connection between the columns.

I always used mine big-endian but if I were left handed I probably
would have done it little-endian.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#212367

Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> Radey Shouman <shouman@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>> 
>>> On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 12:08:27 PM UTC-6, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> 
>>>>> Big-endian is the way people think of numbers, otherwise you’d write
>>>>> amounts like 00.000,1$ for a thousand dollars.
>>> 
>>>> When writing Arabic* that's exactly how it's done.  That is, the digit
>>>> order is the same as it is in Latin script, which is opposite the letter
>>>> order for words.  Although "arabic numerals" is perhaps a misattribution
>>>> it does seem that that is whence they were adopted by Europeans.  It
>>>> seems they just got the endianness wrong -- to be consistent they should
>>>> have reversed the order.
>>> 
>>> Ah, but the languages of India are written from left to right, like ours. So the 
>>> Arabs got the order wrong, and Europeans corrected it!
>> 
>> That would require knowing how they write their numbers.  I don't, do you?
>
> How are abacuses (abaci?) organized. My impression is big-endian.

The normal convention is most significant digits are on the left, just
like writing numbers.  But since there is no byte order in an abacus I
don't see how the terms even apply to it.

>>> But you _are_ right that it is going too far to say that big-endian is "the way 
>>> humans think of numbers".
>>> 
>>> John Savard
>> 

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#212379

On 25/07/2020 22:43, Peter Flass wrote:
> 
> How are abacuses (abaci?) organized. My impression is big-endian.

It's entirely up to you, the user.

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#212380

Gareth Evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 25/07/2020 22:43, Peter Flass wrote:
>> 
>> How are abacuses (abaci?) organized. My impression is big-endian.
> 
> It's entirely up to you, the user.
> 

I guess I phrased the question wrong. I think I was asking “how are they
usually used?” T has been answered.

-- 
Pete

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