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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #230668 > unrolled thread

General Thoughts ...

Started byLars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com>
First post2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
Last post2025-04-28 08:32 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 341 — 35 participants

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Contents

  General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
      Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
              Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
              Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
                                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
                                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
                            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
                                              Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
                                                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
                                                  Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
                                                    Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
                                                      Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
                                                    Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
                                                      Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
                                                  Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
                                                    Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
                                                  Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
                                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
                                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
                                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
                                                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
                                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
                                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
                                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
                                                                  Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
                                                                    Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
                                                                    Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
                                                                      Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
                                                                        Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
                                                                          Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
                                                                        Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
                                                                          Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
                                                                            Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
                                                                              Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
                                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
                                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
                                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
                                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
                                                                        Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
                                                                          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
                                                        Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
                                                          Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
                                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
                                                        Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
                                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
                                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
                                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
                                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
                                                Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
                                Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
                                          Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
                                            Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
                                              Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
                                                California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
                                                  Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
                                                    Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
                                                      Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
                                                        cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
                                                          Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
                                                            Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
                                                              Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
                                                                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
                                                                  Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
                                                                    Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
                                                                      Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
                                                            Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
                                                        Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
                                                        Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
                                                  Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
                                                    Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
                                                    Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
                                                      Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
                                                    Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
                                                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
                                                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
                                            Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
                                      Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
                                        Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
                                          Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
                                        Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
                                        Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
                                          Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
                                          Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
                                        Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
                                          Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
                  Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                    Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
          Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
                  Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
                  Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
                    Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
                      Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
                        Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
                      Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
                        Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
                      Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
    Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700

Page 10 of 18 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11 12 … 18  Next page →


#231055

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
Message-ID<nvjuelxhhj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#231051
On 2025-05-08 02:25, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 7 May 2025 22:25:01 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
> 
>> It saddens me a lot seeing that paper book shops are unable to also sell
>> ebooks. I go to the shops to find new interesting books, but I can not
>> buy them there! They do the job of convincing me to buy a certain book,
>> then they can not benefit! I have to go to the online shop instead.
>>
>> I don't really know why "used" ebooks can not be resold. Maybe the
>> conditions, the regulations, prohibit that, but technically, it is
>> perfectly feasible. It is a file, after all.
> 
> Amazon uses a DRM scheme but that can be broken. I think there's a way you
> can 'lend' and e-book to someone else. The library's e-books are delivered
> via Amazon but I think you have other choices. I don't know how the
> bookkeeping works but they treat an e-book like a physical book where
> there's only one copy. You check it out and nobody else can get it until
> you return it or the loan expires.

Yes.

I know that the DRM used by Adobe Digital Editions can be broken (for 
backup purposes). I assume that something similar can be done with the 
Amazon system.

I wondered, though, if an  ebook can be resold or transferred to another 
user, legally, ie, keeping the DRM. Something similar to what a library 
does.



>> I can shop for new books inside the Kobo reader. When I finish an ebook
>> it is possible I get an offer to buy a new one, and I can get previews.
>> Commercials, no, I don't have them.
> 
> kindle does that in spades. You can also review the book. I read a lot of
> series and it always points you to the next one when you finish. I haven't
> tried it yet but they recently have come up with summaries. The trend for
> lesser known authors is series. Mackey Chandler's 'April' series is 14
> books. Sometimes an author will still be working on books in the projected
> series and a recap or 'previously on' would be handy.

Many authors did/do series. For instance, a fiction crime writer, like 
Agatha Christie, used the same detective, Poirot, on a lot of the 
novels; other personages appears in many novels. It is not a series in 
name, but it is in fact.


> 
> Some of the ads on Amazon, Netflix, and FreeVee can get a little old.
> Several times they've run the same ad back to back in the same break. They
> also use the operant conditioning style reward schedule. Sometimes a show
> will be uninterrupted. The next episode might have ads every few minutes.
> Gotta keep the rats guessing. With rats it is a reward though. Partial
> reinforcement tends to work better than a reward every time. They can't
> figure out the schedule and will keep pressing the lever figuring they'll
> get a treat sooner or later.

{chuckle} :-)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#231057 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<vviopi$pma$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#231055
According to Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
>I know that the DRM used by Adobe Digital Editions can be broken (for 
>backup purposes). I assume that something similar can be done with the 
>Amazon system.

Yup.  There is a calibre plugin.

>I wondered, though, if an  ebook can be resold or transferred to another 
>user, legally, ie, keeping the DRM. Something similar to what a library 
>does.

In the US at least, the answer is no.  For Kindle books there is a technical
issue that the DRM includes the serial number of the device.  If you have
several devices on your Kindle account, the copies downloaded to each have
different serial numbers.

The major issue is that this has been litigated in court and the answer was a
firm no.  A decade ago Redigi tried to make an aftermarket in iTunes downloads.
They tried very hard to make it work and prevent sellers from keeping a copy
but the record labels sued and won and Redigi is no more.  Publishers claim that
you don't buy e-books, you only license them, and the terms of the license say
it's specific to you, no resale or sublicense.  The Amazon lend a book to a
friend feature is a narrow carveout in the license, not a general lending right.

I think this is absurd, and it is clearly an end run around the well settled
first sale principle that says once you've bought a physical book, you can do
anything with it you want other than make copies. That's why libraries exist;
publishers claim they love libraries but if the law let them they would put the
same restrictions on paper books that they do on e-books.

The law is somewhat different in other countries, but I don't know any that
have first sale for e-books.
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#231060 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<m84de5F99pdU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#231057
On Thu, 8 May 2025 17:14:26 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:

> I think this is absurd, and it is clearly an end run around the well
> settled first sale principle that says once you've bought a physical
> book, you can do anything with it you want other than make copies.
> That's why libraries exist; publishers claim they love libraries but if
> the law let them they would put the same restrictions on paper books
> that they do on e-books.

Kinsella has written about that in 'Against Intellectual Property'.  He 
takes a libertarian stance against IP. rather strange for someone whose 
day job is patent attorney.

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#231062 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<nihvelxv7c.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#231057
On 2025-05-08 19:14, John Levine wrote:
> According to Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
>> I know that the DRM used by Adobe Digital Editions can be broken (for
>> backup purposes). I assume that something similar can be done with the
>> Amazon system.
> 
> Yup.  There is a calibre plugin.
> 
>> I wondered, though, if an  ebook can be resold or transferred to another
>> user, legally, ie, keeping the DRM. Something similar to what a library
>> does.
> 
> In the US at least, the answer is no.  For Kindle books there is a technical
> issue that the DRM includes the serial number of the device.  If you have
> several devices on your Kindle account, the copies downloaded to each have
> different serial numbers.
> 
> The major issue is that this has been litigated in court and the answer was a
> firm no.  A decade ago Redigi tried to make an aftermarket in iTunes downloads.
> They tried very hard to make it work and prevent sellers from keeping a copy
> but the record labels sued and won and Redigi is no more.  Publishers claim that
> you don't buy e-books, you only license them, and the terms of the license say
> it's specific to you, no resale or sublicense.  The Amazon lend a book to a
> friend feature is a narrow carveout in the license, not a general lending right.

Ah. I see.

But if I'm only getting a license to read the book while I am alive, the 
price should be significantly smaller than for the paper book, which can 
be inherited, or resold or gifted, for centuries.

> 
> I think this is absurd, and it is clearly an end run around the well settled
> first sale principle that says once you've bought a physical book, you can do
> anything with it you want other than make copies. That's why libraries exist;
> publishers claim they love libraries but if the law let them they would put the
> same restrictions on paper books that they do on e-books.
> 
> The law is somewhat different in other countries, but I don't know any that
> have first sale for e-books.

I don't know what exactly the law says here, in for dummies version.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#231068 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<m851nmFchpnU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#231062
On Thu, 8 May 2025 22:42:31 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> But if I'm only getting a license to read the book while I am alive, the
> price should be significantly smaller than for the paper book, which can
> be inherited, or resold or gifted, for centuries.

amazon.com/Termination-Shock-Novel-Neal-Stephenson-ebook/dp/B08WLWC6GZ

Paperback   $13.49
Hardcover   $14.50
Kindle      $17.99

Clicking around randomly, most Kindle versions are cheaper than print.

amazon.com/dp/B0079XPUOW

Antoher exception

Paperback   $9.99
Hardcover   $21.24
Kindle      $11.99


I have no idea how many others may have an inverted pricing structure. 
Why? Not only does the print edition have to be manufactured but they have 
to ship it to me. 

When CDs were introduced they were mostly targeting the hi-brow and 
audiophile market. When they entered the general market I assumed they 
would be cheaper than cassettes. Copying to tape is time consuming even at 
100x the playback speed in a loop bin duplicator. CDs are literally 
stamped out. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc#Manufacture,_cost,_and_pricing

Sometimes I'm naive. It's new! It's better! It has to cost more even 
though it costs us less! That's the American way!


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#231069 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<vvjl64$1dlc$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#231068
According to rbowman  <bowman@montana.com>:
>Paperback   $9.99
>Hardcover   $21.24
>Kindle      $11.99
>
>
>I have no idea how many others may have an inverted pricing structure. 

It's first sale.  They're selling the books which they have bought from
the publisher, but renting you the e-book as the publisher's agent.  They
have a lot more flexibility in pricing physical books.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#231070 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<1821flxbfs.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#231069
On 2025-05-09 03:19, John Levine wrote:
> According to rbowman  <bowman@montana.com>:
>> Paperback   $9.99
>> Hardcover   $21.24
>> Kindle      $11.99
>>
>>
>> I have no idea how many others may have an inverted pricing structure.
> 
> It's first sale.  They're selling the books which they have bought from
> the publisher, but renting you the e-book as the publisher's agent.  They
> have a lot more flexibility in pricing physical books.

I haven't noticed this with Kobo. I can not say "they don't do this", 
only that I haven't noticed.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#231072 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<j521flxbfs.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#231068
On 2025-05-09 02:48, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 8 May 2025 22:42:31 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> But if I'm only getting a license to read the book while I am alive, the
>> price should be significantly smaller than for the paper book, which can
>> be inherited, or resold or gifted, for centuries.
> 
> amazon.com/Termination-Shock-Novel-Neal-Stephenson-ebook/dp/B08WLWC6GZ
> 
> Paperback   $13.49
> Hardcover   $14.50
> Kindle      $17.99
> 
> Clicking around randomly, most Kindle versions are cheaper than print.
> 
> amazon.com/dp/B0079XPUOW
> 
> Antoher exception
> 
> Paperback   $9.99
> Hardcover   $21.24
> Kindle      $11.99
> 
> 
> I have no idea how many others may have an inverted pricing structure.
> Why? Not only does the print edition have to be manufactured but they have
> to ship it to me.

Indeed.

> 
> When CDs were introduced they were mostly targeting the hi-brow and
> audiophile market. When they entered the general market I assumed they
> would be cheaper than cassettes. Copying to tape is time consuming even at
> 100x the playback speed in a loop bin duplicator. CDs are literally
> stamped out.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc#Manufacture,_cost,_and_pricing
> 
> Sometimes I'm naive. It's new! It's better! It has to cost more even
> though it costs us less! That's the American way!

Yeah, pricing is nuts, everywhere. The strategy is charge as most as the 
client is prepared to pay.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#231073 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<m870ltFm9o0U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#231072
On Fri, 9 May 2025 12:31:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Yeah, pricing is nuts, everywhere. The strategy is charge as most as the
> client is prepared to pay.

I never had much interest in statistics or economics but both were 
required courses. I recall much ink devoted to graphing marginal cost 
versus marginal revenue and similar techniques to maximize profits.

The more depressing part of statistics was trying to find the sweet point 
between QA costs and the costs of replacing defective units. At what 
frequency should you test widgets to insure the defective products don't 
exceed 5% of the output if the cost of replacing those 5% is less than the 
cost of more frequent testing?

I have the feeling a lot of quants and their figurative slide rules can be 
replaced by AI. 

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#231074 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<twsTP.58425$FH88.1600@fx12.iad>
In reply to#231073
On 2025-05-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 9 May 2025 12:31:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Yeah, pricing is nuts, everywhere. The strategy is charge as most as the
>> client is prepared to pay.
>
> I never had much interest in statistics or economics but both were 
> required courses. I recall much ink devoted to graphing marginal cost 
> versus marginal revenue and similar techniques to maximize profits.

That was the first course I stopped attending as part of my slide
out the bottom of academia.

> The more depressing part of statistics was trying to find the sweet point 
> between QA costs and the costs of replacing defective units. At what 
> frequency should you test widgets to insure the defective products don't 
> exceed 5% of the output if the cost of replacing those 5% is less than the 
> cost of more frequent testing?

Reminds me of that story of the firm that ordered parts from a Japanese
supplier, specifying a 1% defect rate.  Upon receiving the shipment, they
found a few parts in a plastic bag sitting on top of the rest of the order.
They called up the supplier for an explanation and were told: "You requested
a 1% defect rate.  For your convenience we've packed the defective parts
separately."

> I have the feeling a lot of quants and their figurative slide rules can be 
> replaced by AI. 

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#231076 — Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
SubjectRe: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<m87umpFqsonU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#231074
On Fri, 09 May 2025 19:16:41 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:


> That was the first course I stopped attending as part of my slide out
> the bottom of academia.

I never managed to slide out but an 8 AM statistics class wasn't anything 
I was enthusiastic about. Come to think of it Friday afternoons weren't 
too hot either. When I took differential equations a friend of mine who 
knew the TA has a bet on whether I would pass since I was seldom seen. The 
TA figured no way, but he was wrong. I could read the book. I will admit 
that when he mentioned L'Hopital's Rule during one of my appearances it 
took me a while to find the Lobetal guy in the index.

I've never been fond of lectures and the trend to replace written 
documentation with youtube videos isn't something I enjoy in most cases. 
Coursera has a free 'Introduction to Machine Learning' course from Duke 
that reminded me why I wasn't impressed by most college courses. The 
instructor can drone on for 10 minutes saying the same thing and has a few 
verbal ticks like starting every sentence with 'And so...'  It reminded me 
of a brief dip into the Book of Mormon where 'And it came to pass.' was a 
required prelude to a sentence. 

otoh, I enjoyed MIT's TinyML series and Harvard's CS50 classes. Esri used 
Python 2.7 up until the end of ArcGIS 10.x so I'd never gotten much into 
Python 3. The CS50 Python course was a great for getting up to speed.

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#231059

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
Message-ID<m84d3qF99pdU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#231055
On Thu, 8 May 2025 14:17:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I wondered, though, if an  ebook can be resold or transferred to another
> user, legally, ie, keeping the DRM. Something similar to what a library
> does.

https://booksrun.com/blog/news-on-reselling-ebooks/

The article is very old. afaik Amazon hasn't implemented any resale plan.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201014950

Stephan Kinsella has written about the problem and copyright in general. 
When you buy a physical book, you own the book. You can sell the physical 
book, but you can't copy it and sell copies. With electronic media you 
have a license to the content but there isn't a physical entity. You don't 
own the epub, modi, awz, file. 

https://phys.org/news/2009-10-amazon-deleted-orwell.html

Rather ironic that they snatched '1984' back. With Kindle Unlimited I can 
'borrow' a large number of titles. When I have 'read' them I 'return' the 
book and it's removed from the device. That makes sense and I haven't paid 
for the content.


i asked an author how that worked from his end. He hadn't thought about it 
and said he would research it but never got back to me. Many of the books 
I read fall into the Kindle Unlimited plan or I can buy them, usually for 
a nominal amount, $5 or so. I wanted to know if he received the same 
payment either way since Id rather support an author I enjoy. I don't 
think any of the authors I read are turning into millionaires for their 
efforts.

Neal Stephenson tried the series deal and got quite a bit of negative 
reviews. It's in the unlimited plan now but when 'Polestan' came out last 
year I bought it for $14.99. It wasn't clear that it was a series and the 
story line was not resolved at all. People who had read his previous 
books, which tend to be long and convoluted, thought it was a transparent 
ploy to make more money. I don't think the second book is out yet but I 
didn't like the first half enough to read it, even for free.

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#231063

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
Message-ID<sohvelxu5h.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#231059
On 2025-05-08 20:56, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 8 May 2025 14:17:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> I wondered, though, if an  ebook can be resold or transferred to another
>> user, legally, ie, keeping the DRM. Something similar to what a library
>> does.
> 
> https://booksrun.com/blog/news-on-reselling-ebooks/
> 
> The article is very old. afaik Amazon hasn't implemented any resale plan.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201014950
> 
> Stephan Kinsella has written about the problem and copyright in general.
> When you buy a physical book, you own the book. You can sell the physical
> book, but you can't copy it and sell copies. With electronic media you
> have a license to the content but there isn't a physical entity. You don't
> own the epub, modi, awz, file.
> 
> https://phys.org/news/2009-10-amazon-deleted-orwell.html
> 
> Rather ironic that they snatched '1984' back. With Kindle Unlimited I can
> 'borrow' a large number of titles. When I have 'read' them I 'return' the
> book and it's removed from the device. That makes sense and I haven't paid
> for the content.

Ah, borrow.


> i asked an author how that worked from his end. He hadn't thought about it
> and said he would research it but never got back to me. Many of the books
> I read fall into the Kindle Unlimited plan or I can buy them, usually for
> a nominal amount, $5 or so. I wanted to know if he received the same
> payment either way since Id rather support an author I enjoy. I don't
> think any of the authors I read are turning into millionaires for their
> efforts.
> 
> Neal Stephenson tried the series deal and got quite a bit of negative
> reviews. It's in the unlimited plan now but when 'Polestan' came out last
> year I bought it for $14.99. It wasn't clear that it was a series and the
> story line was not resolved at all. People who had read his previous
> books, which tend to be long and convoluted, thought it was a transparent
> ploy to make more money. I don't think the second book is out yet but I
> didn't like the first half enough to read it, even for free.
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#231064

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
Message-ID<vvj6sl$2j71$2@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#231059
It appears that rbowman  <bowman@montana.com> said:
>On Thu, 8 May 2025 14:17:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> I wondered, though, if an  ebook can be resold or transferred to another
>> user, legally, ie, keeping the DRM. Something similar to what a library
>> does.
>
>https://booksrun.com/blog/news-on-reselling-ebooks/
>
>The article is very old. afaik Amazon hasn't implemented any resale plan.

Don't hold your breath.  I expect the patent they describe was gotten defensively,
to ensure that nobody else can patent it, not because they expect to use it.

>i asked an author how that worked from his end. 

Some of my books are in those unlimited digital libraries.  If I've
gotten any royalties, I'd need a microscope to see them.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#231066

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
Message-ID<m84vq5FchpnU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#231064
On Thu, 8 May 2025 21:15:01 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:

> Some of my books are in those unlimited digital libraries.  If I've
> gotten any royalties, I'd need a microscope to see them.

Certainly not 'Internet for Dummies' :)

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#231067

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
Message-ID<vvjj10$152q$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#231066
According to rbowman  <bowman@montana.com>:
>On Thu, 8 May 2025 21:15:01 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>
>> Some of my books are in those unlimited digital libraries.  If I've
>> gotten any royalties, I'd need a microscope to see them.
>
>Certainly not 'Internet for Dummies' :)

I got plenty of royalties from sales of the book itself and the many things they
made out of it like combo books and desk calendars, but not from the online
libraries where the user pays one fee which is then split out to all the books
they might look at during the year.

I also get some random stautory royalties.  Earlier this year my Dutch photocopying
royalty was 0,36 €.   Time to look at yacht catalogs.
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#231071

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
Message-ID<ca21flxbfs.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#231067
On 2025-05-09 02:42, John Levine wrote:
> According to rbowman  <bowman@montana.com>:
>> On Thu, 8 May 2025 21:15:01 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>
>>> Some of my books are in those unlimited digital libraries.  If I've
>>> gotten any royalties, I'd need a microscope to see them.
>>
>> Certainly not 'Internet for Dummies' :)
> 
> I got plenty of royalties from sales of the book itself and the many things they
> made out of it like combo books and desk calendars, but not from the online
> libraries where the user pays one fee which is then split out to all the books
> they might look at during the year.
> 
> I also get some random stautory royalties.  Earlier this year my Dutch photocopying
> royalty was 0,36 €.   Time to look at yacht catalogs.

Yeah, you are making rich.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#231013 — Re: kindles, General Thoughts ...

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
SubjectRe: kindles, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<vvd4np$m7h$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#230998
According to rbowman  <bowman@montana.com>:
>amazon.com/Kindle-Keyboard-Free-Wi-Fi-Display/dp/B004HZYA6E
>
>That's the Kindle from 2011 I have that was 3G. The 3G option didn't last 
>long so they are all wi-fi now. The Kindle itself still works but 3G is 
>gone. I thought that option must have been a pain for Amazon since every 
>reader would have a telephone number. 

I opened a dead one and found a SIM chip. I don't think they had phone
numbers since they were data only. 

What was particularly amazing was that they had roaming agreements all
over the world and a web browser good enough to do simple stuff. One
time I used it to check my mail from a sheep pasture in Iceland.



-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#231036 — Re: kindles, General Thoughts ...

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
SubjectRe: kindles, General Thoughts ...
Message-ID<m81p41FriiiU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#231013
On Tue, 6 May 2025 14:01:29 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:

> According to rbowman  <bowman@montana.com>:
>>amazon.com/Kindle-Keyboard-Free-Wi-Fi-Display/dp/B004HZYA6E
>>
>>That's the Kindle from 2011 I have that was 3G. The 3G option didn't
>>last long so they are all wi-fi now. The Kindle itself still works but
>>3G is gone. I thought that option must have been a pain for Amazon since
>>every reader would have a telephone number.
> 
> I opened a dead one and found a SIM chip. I don't think they had phone
> numbers since they were data only.

I think they did. My internet connection is a MiFi wireless router. There 
is a rudimentary display that shows messages. Mostly they're from Verizon 
but I have received text messages that obviously were from someone who 
mis-dialed. There's no way to reply but if i look at the diagnostics it 
does have a regular phone number.  

My Verizon plan is data only. It takes a bit of doing to get the drones at 
a Verizon store to realize you only want data, not a phone plan, but it 
can be done. They're not forthcoming about the available data plans 
either. 

> What was particularly amazing was that they had roaming agreements all
> over the world and a web browser good enough to do simple stuff. One
> time I used it to check my mail from a sheep pasture in Iceland.

I do know how that worked when the carriers were CDMA or GSM. I used to 
have a TracFhone and different models were available depending on where 
you lived and the carrier's technology, let alone sorting out the charges.


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#230988

FromPeter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>
Date2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
Message-ID<vvbfc4$1f97o$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#230971
On 5 May 2025 18:43:26 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Mon, 5 May 2025 13:24:24 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> 
>> I have the same problem, I can't fit more paper in the shelves. But I
>> have a Kobo, not a Kindle. Recently I saw a kindle "inherited" by an
>> old friend from her daughter in law, and I did not like it, many things
>> I could not do, not confortable with it.
> 
> Kobo took the decision early on that the US market was too competitive
> and concentrated on the rest of the world. I've seen estimates that Kobo
> has around 3% of the US market. I think they were tied in with Borders
> but Borders went under long ago so that didn't help.
> 
> For the US Kindle is the giant, Nook a very distant second, and Apple
> books almost as weak as Kobo.
> 
> I've had several generations of Kindles, with the first having
> standalone 3G capability. That really worked out well for me in an
> unintended way. I'd been on dialup but when reading on the Kindle I saw
> it had connected to the Verizon network. That opened a new possibility
> and I was at the Verizon store the next day to get one of their wi-fi
> hotspots. I'm still using wireless since the only other option is
> satellite.

I've still got my original Kindle, a first- or second-gen model with an 
actual keyboard. Amazing it still works, but I like it because it's so 
small and light, and has terrific battery life.

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