Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #231057

Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...

From John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ...
Date 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
Organization Taughannock Networks
Message-ID <vviopi$pma$1@gal.iecc.com> (permalink)
References <slrn100pnsk.3f0p.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> <t5sselxevq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <m82bv2Ftvm5U2@mid.individual.net> <nvjuelxhhj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

Show all headers | View raw

According to Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid>:
>I know that the DRM used by Adobe Digital Editions can be broken (for 
>backup purposes). I assume that something similar can be done with the 
>Amazon system.

Yup.  There is a calibre plugin.

>I wondered, though, if an  ebook can be resold or transferred to another 
>user, legally, ie, keeping the DRM. Something similar to what a library 
>does.

In the US at least, the answer is no.  For Kindle books there is a technical
issue that the DRM includes the serial number of the device.  If you have
several devices on your Kindle account, the copies downloaded to each have
different serial numbers.

The major issue is that this has been litigated in court and the answer was a
firm no.  A decade ago Redigi tried to make an aftermarket in iTunes downloads.
They tried very hard to make it work and prevent sellers from keeping a copy
but the record labels sued and won and Redigi is no more.  Publishers claim that
you don't buy e-books, you only license them, and the terms of the license say
it's specific to you, no resale or sublicense.  The Amazon lend a book to a
friend feature is a narrow carveout in the license, not a general lending right.

I think this is absurd, and it is clearly an end run around the well settled
first sale principle that says once you've bought a physical book, you can do
anything with it you want other than make copies. That's why libraries exist;
publishers claim they love libraries but if the law let them they would put the
same restrictions on paper books that they do on e-books.

The law is somewhat different in other countries, but I don't know any that
have first sale for e-books.
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Back to alt.folklore.computers | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
    Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
      Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
          Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
                Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
                Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
                Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
                Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
                California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
                Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
                Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
                cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
                Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
                Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
                Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
                Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
                Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
            Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
                Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
    Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
  Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700

csiph-web