Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #213041 > unrolled thread

Joining!

Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers

Contents

  Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-23 21:56 +0000
    Re: Joining! JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 08:51 -0500
      Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-24 14:37 +0000
        Re: Joining! Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-24 11:48 -0400
    Re: Joining! Daniel <me@sci.fidan.com> - 2020-08-24 13:24 -0700
      Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-25 06:31 +0000
        Re: Joining! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-25 19:57 +0000
          Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 07:45 +0000
            Re: Joining! Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 06:33 -0400
              Re: Joining! J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 11:36 -0400
                Re: Joining! Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 12:30 -0400
                  Re: Joining! J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 12:39 -0400
                    Re: Joining! Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 14:51 -0400
                      Re: Joining! J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 15:17 -0400
                        Re: Joining! Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:02 -0400
                      Re: Joining! Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-26 19:25 +0000
                        Re: Joining! Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-08-26 17:07 -0400
                          Re: Joining! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-26 22:46 +0100
                            Re: Joining! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 06:32 +0000
                              Re: Joining! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-27 08:06 +0100
                              Re: Joining! Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 07:50 -0700
                                Re: Joining! J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-08-27 18:54 -0400
                            Re: Joining! gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-27 15:58 +0100
                          Re: Joining! Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-26 22:02 +0000
                            Re: Joining! Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-08-26 22:49 -0500
                              Re: Joining! Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-08-27 10:40 +0000
                                Re: Joining! Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-08-27 18:51 +0000
                            Re: Joining! Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-08-29 07:30 +0000
                  Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-26 20:31 +0000
    Re: Joining! usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-08-25 01:51 +0000
    Re: Joining! David Paul <dpaulnieto@outlook.com> - 2020-08-27 03:09 +0200
      Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-29 05:50 +0000
        Re: Joining! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-29 07:25 +0100
          Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-29 13:26 +0000
            Re: Joining! Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-08-29 06:35 -0700
            Re: Joining! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-29 18:12 +0100
              Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-08-30 12:51 +0000
                Re: Joining! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-08-30 18:03 +0100
                  Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-09-02 11:27 +0000
                    Re: Joining! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-02 15:05 +0100
                  Re: Joining! usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-04 18:11 +0000
                    Re: Joining! Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-04 19:58 +0100
                    Re: Joining! Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> - 2020-09-05 09:09 +0000
                      Re: Joining! usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-05 18:01 +0000

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

#213258

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2020-08-26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
>>> implication.  So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
>>> tables to increase business.
>> 
>> Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10% than
>> the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm always on
>> expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only given if the
>> customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out then I won't be
>> leaving a tip.
> 
> When did the standard become 20%?  To me it was always 15% (although
> I vary it depending on level of service.)
> 

Now think it’s up to 25%. I used to do 15%, too. With the covid mess
hitting restaurants so hard I’m trying to tip more.

-- 
Pete

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213293

On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 07:50:51 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2020-08-26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
>>>> implication.  So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
>>>> tables to increase business.
>>> 
>>> Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10% than
>>> the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm always on
>>> expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only given if the
>>> customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out then I won't be
>>> leaving a tip.
>> 
>> When did the standard become 20%?  To me it was always 15% (although
>> I vary it depending on level of service.)
>> 
>
>Now think it’s up to 25%. I used to do 15%, too. With the covid mess
>hitting restaurants so hard I’m trying to tip more.

I do 30-40% when it's just me.  Takes nearly as much work to serve me
as to serve two people and I buy half as much, so just seems fair and
right now I can afford it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213262

On 26/08/2020 22:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
>> implication.  So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
>> tables to increase business.
>
> 	Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10% than
> the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm always on
> expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only given if the
> customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out then I won't be
> leaving a tip.
>

"Would you like a tip?"

... "Yes, plese!"

"Then don't take money from strangers!  :-)  "

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213226

On 2020-08-26, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes:
>
>> On 2020-08-26, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> Why would they, they aren't my mother.
>>>
>>> Because you're occupying a table delaying their next tip.
>>
>> Not in Europe. But perhaps that's OT as it's possible neither of you are
>> there.
>
> Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
> implication.  So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
> tables to increase business.
>
> Here, you'll see the waiter start to come back with "is there anything
> else I can help you with?" after you've paid.

The whole waiter culture is different, really. A European waiter is
supposed to stay in the background and perceive subtle (or less so)
signs that you need something - like if you've finished your food or at
least are done with it.

You can of course flag them down as well, and there isn't really a
regimented system with "waiter X has table group Y" system as in the US.

When in the US, I've always found it annoying that the waiter will get
in my face and go "Is everything okay?" in the middle of my meal,
especially as they _always_ seem to do it right when I have my mouth
full.

As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.

Niklas
-- 
I've heard the term "furkids" used to refer to pets that people have
in lieu of children. I have therefore resolved to refer to people's
children, from now on, as "baldpets".
                              -- Daniel Rutter

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213236

On 8/26/2020 5:02 PM, Niklas Karlsson wrote:

> As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
> do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
> more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
> tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.
> 
And that's a big difference. In the US, they mostly don't.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213244

On 2020-08-27, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 8/26/2020 5:02 PM, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>
>> As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
>> do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
>> more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
>> tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.
>> 
> And that's a big difference. In the US, they mostly don't.

Right, and some people seem to believe that means there's no incentive
to give good service. This is false, in my opinion.

Niklas
-- 
So, um.  Some people, when they were children, at some point
accidentally found their parents' pr0n.  I, instead, accidentally
found my parents' FORTRAN books.
                       -- Jed Davis, asr

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213283

On 2020-08-27, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:

> On 2020-08-27, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/26/2020 5:02 PM, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
>>
>>> As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
>>> do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
>>> more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
>>> tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.
>> 
>> And that's a big difference. In the US, they mostly don't.
>
> Right, and some people seem to believe that means there's no incentive
> to give good service. This is false, in my opinion.

Prior to the '80s, I'd have agreed with you.  Now that our society's
only yardstick is money, the criteria have changed.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213400

On Wed, 2020-08-26, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
...
> As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
> do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
> more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
> tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.

That probably changed at some point last century, because some people
(me included) still avoid restaurants because they're unsure if they're
expected to tip.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213214

On 2020-08-26, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess havng a lot of projects going helps not
> getting bored.

Definitely!

I've been quite prolific of side projects this period!
Just the fact I'm working from home systematically
gives me back a lot of time I don't spend in driving
to work.

Yet, I'd like to have more time for my creative fooling
around...  But the family wants some too, of course :P

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213071

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 21:56:38 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local>
wrote:
>Hi comrades,
>
>I've been told there are good stories going in this newsgroup.
>May I join you?

Sure, just check in with the moderator first.


>My humble contributions might be war stories about software
>development, perhaps some ideas for personal projects, or so.
>
>I hope I can make some new friends here :)

Good luck with that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213231

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 21:56:38 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
<pato@thunder.local> wrote:

>Hi comrades,
>
>I've been told there are good stories going in this newsgroup.
>May I join you?
>
>My humble contributions might be war stories about software
>development, perhaps some ideas for personal projects, or so.
>
>I hope I can make some new friends here :)
>
>All the best
>
> .el pato.

Hi, I'm also quite a newbie, not very versed on usenet etiquette, and
prefer to read other people messages. Althought not a troll, I'm quite
straight when giving my opinion on different subjects, and honestly
this is one of a few newsgroups worth a look, most are just plain
looney rubbish.

The other one I found quite interesting is uk.d-i-y!  :)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213396

On 2020-08-27, David Paul <dpaulnieto@outlook.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm also quite a newbie, not very versed on usenet etiquette, and
> prefer to read other people messages. Althought not a troll, I'm quite
> straight when giving my opinion on different subjects, and honestly
> this is one of a few newsgroups worth a look, most are just plain
> looney rubbish.

Yes, there are many groups: it's difficult to start
somewhere.  I got pointed to alt.folklore.computers by
a bloke on IRC.

I think that someone should take start to list up
worthy newsgroup resources.  Even though, to be honest,
I think that the same applies to the web as well: many
sites are there just as a clickbait, but do not offer
real value.

Once upon a time there were portals.  Refined search
engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
*actually* worthy content.

> The other one I found quite interesting is uk.d-i-y!  :)

Thanks for the pointer: I just subscribed, let's see
what people have to say, and perhaps see you around
there too :)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213397

On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:

> Once upon a time there were portals.  Refined search
> engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
> resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
> *actually* worthy content.

	The trouble is that's a lot of work that's hard to pay for (Yahoo!
found that out in the late 90s) and it's all editorial work so throwing it
open won't work.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213405

On 2020-08-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
> Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
>
>> Once upon a time there were portals.  Refined search
>> engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
>> resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
>> *actually* worthy content.
>
> 	The trouble is that's a lot of work that's hard to pay for (Yahoo!
> found that out in the late 90s) and it's all editorial work so throwing it
> open won't work.

What do you mean by "editorial work"?

I was more thinking of a very basic list of pointers,
maybe versioned via git and managed by many people.

It would be difficult probably to draw a line
somewhere.  The more maintaner, the higher is the
likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213406

Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
> On 2020-08-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
>> Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
>> 
>>> Once upon a time there were portals.  Refined search
>>> engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
>>> resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
>>> *actually* worthy content.
>> 
>> The trouble is that's a lot of work that's hard to pay for (Yahoo!
>> found that out in the late 90s) and it's all editorial work so throwing it
>> open won't work.
> 
> What do you mean by "editorial work"?
> 
> I was more thinking of a very basic list of pointers,
> maybe versioned via git and managed by many people.
> 
> It would be difficult probably to draw a line
> somewhere.  The more maintaner, the higher is the
> likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
> 

Like the Open Directory Project, if they’re still in business.

-- 
Pete

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213412

On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 13:26:18 +0000 (UTC)
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:

> On 2020-08-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> > On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
> > Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:
> >
> >> Once upon a time there were portals.  Refined search
> >> engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
> >> resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
> >> *actually* worthy content.
> >
> > 	The trouble is that's a lot of work that's hard to pay for
> > (Yahoo! found that out in the late 90s) and it's all editorial work so
> > throwing it open won't work.
> 
> What do you mean by "editorial work"?

	Deciding what to put into what category, what to include what not
to include.

> I was more thinking of a very basic list of pointers,
> maybe versioned via git and managed by many people.

	Even in 1995 when Yahoo! started up it was a big list and hard to
maintain.

> It would be difficult probably to draw a line
> somewhere.  The more maintaner, the higher is the
> likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.

	Yep - every maintainer with an interest in a site is going to want
it there.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213451

On 2020-08-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> It would be difficult probably to draw a line
>> somewhere.  The more maintaner, the higher is the
>> likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
>
> 	Yep - every maintainer with an interest in a site is going to want
> it there.

Of course.

It would actually need some peer review

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213461

On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:51:24 +0000 (UTC)
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:

> On 2020-08-29, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> >> It would be difficult probably to draw a line
> >> somewhere.  The more maintaner, the higher is the
> >> likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
> >
> > 	Yep - every maintainer with an interest in a site is going to
> > want it there.
> 
> Of course.
> 
> It would actually need some peer review

	Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page to a
category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes into
the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving category
splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.

	It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to contribute
resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal with.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213587

On 2020-08-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> It would actually need some peer review
>
> 	Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page to a
> category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
> relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes into
> the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving category
> splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.

Yes, I think this would work.

If it is made by and for techies, something like this
can be achieved by having some git repository
collecting the submissions (e.g. by pull requests), and
some automated script that crunches them into a
hierarchical index.


> 	It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to contribute
> resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal with.

Which pretty much matches any open source project that
is not backed up by $BigCompany

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#213604

On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 11:27:46 +0000 (UTC)
Johnatan Duck <pato@thunder.local> wrote:

> On 2020-08-30, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> >> It would actually need some peer review
> >
> > 	Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page
> > to a category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
> > relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes
> > into the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving
> > category splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.
> 
> Yes, I think this would work.

	OK time to start getting a bit more detailed then.

> If it is made by and for techies, something like this

	There seem to be a few here - I'm sure someone will chip in on any
massive blunders.

> can be achieved by having some git repository
> collecting the submissions (e.g. by pull requests), and

	Hmm using git PRs would raise a competency barrier. Not sure I like
it though - I'd rather the barrier be on subject than technical (I can run
git no problem - ask me to assess a site on rock climbing and I'd be nearly
clueless) not that I can see a way to do that.

	Dropping dragons onto category entries might be one way to go,
extremely low barrier to voting so the numbers probably need to be high -
or perhaps put a limit to how many entries are shown in a category show the
highest rated. That would open options for highly trusted ratings to count
higher than random ones.

> some automated script that crunches them into a
> hierarchical index.

	Distributed - that's always the fun bit.

> > 	It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to
> > contribute resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal
> > with.
> 
> Which pretty much matches any open source project that
> is not backed up by $BigCompany

	I'm wondering if one part of it shouldn't be a docker template for
a node in the service with each node carrying mirrors of part of the index
driven by usage (cache on query) and quorum rules (n copies per continent
perhaps). Not as the only way to add a node but as one mindlessly easy way
for people to contribute eg "If you want fast access then add these two
lines to your swarm configuration file and get local nodes to talk to".

	Packages for various OSen of course.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | alt.folklore.computers

csiph-web