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HP split into two

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  HP split into two jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) - 2015-11-04 23:25 +0000
    Re: HP split into two Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-11-04 18:36 -0500
      Re: HP split into two Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-11-04 22:58 -0500
        Re: HP split into two philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2015-11-05 05:16 -0600
          Re: HP split into two David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-11-05 11:28 +0000
            Re: HP split into two Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2015-11-05 11:44 +0000
              Re: HP split into two David Hume <David.Hume@example.com> - 2015-11-05 11:52 +0000
              Re: HP split into two Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2015-11-06 09:40 -0800
            Re: HP split into two scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-05 14:15 +0000
              Re: HP split into two Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 07:48 -0500
          Re: HP split into two "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-11-05 07:37 -0600
            Re: HP split into two "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-05 13:50 +0000
            Re: HP split into two Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-11-05 20:47 -0500
          Re: HP split into two Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-05 14:08 +0000
            Re: HP split into two Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-11-05 13:00 -0500
              Re: HP split into two "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-05 18:44 +0000
                Re: HP split into two hankvc@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) - 2015-11-08 18:03 +0000
            Re: HP split into two Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-05 21:16 +0000
              Re: HP split into two Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-11-06 08:02 +0000
                Re: HP split into two Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-06 09:20 +0000
                  Re: HP split into two Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2015-11-06 09:53 +0000
                    Re: HP split into two Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-06 11:58 +0000
                      Re: HP split into two Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-11-06 15:19 +0000
                        Re: HP split into two Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-06 19:30 +0000
                          Re: HP split into two Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-11-06 15:54 -0500
                            Re: HP split into two Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-06 23:02 +0000
                            Re: HP split into two Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-11-07 10:35 +0000
                        Re: HP split into two jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-07 13:45 +0000
                          Re: HP split into two Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-07 13:59 +0000
                            Re: HP split into two jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-08 13:46 +0000
            Re: HP split into two Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-05 21:19 +0000
              Re: HP split into two Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-06 10:16 +0000
                Re: HP split into two Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-11-06 17:22 +0000
                  Re: HP split into two Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 13:01 -0500
                Re: HP split into two Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:58 -0500
              Re: HP split into two Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:57 -0500
                Re: HP split into two Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-12 00:57 +0000
                  Re: HP split into two Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-11-11 23:33 -0500
                    Re: HP split into two Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-12 13:49 +0000
                      Re: HP split into two Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2015-11-12 10:55 -0700
                    Re: HP split into two hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-11-13 09:45 -0800
                      Re: HP split into two Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-11-13 12:58 -0500
                      Re: HP split into two Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-14 06:20 +0000
          Re: HP split into two Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-11-11 12:50 -0500

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#154066

On 6 Nov 2015 09:20:48 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:


>
>Fuser lamps are cheap although a pain to fit!
>
>That's how I acquired my first one; it was fine (28000 pages on the 
>clock) but it had been moved and the fuser lamp filament had failed. It 
>was just a few dollars for a new lamp, and about 90 minutes working out 
>how to dismantle the fuser and replace the lamp.

It gets easy once you have done a few times.

Steve. (ex maintenance engineer)

-- 
Neural Network Software for Windows                 http://www.npsnn.com

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#154073

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:53:47 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:

> On 6 Nov 2015 09:20:48 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>Fuser lamps are cheap although a pain to fit!
>>
>>That's how I acquired my first one; it was fine (28000 pages on the
>>clock) but it had been moved and the fuser lamp filament had failed. It
>>was just a few dollars for a new lamp, and about 90 minutes working out
>>how to dismantle the fuser and replace the lamp.
> 
> It gets easy once you have done a few times.
> 
> Steve. (ex maintenance engineer)

Oh yes, the next couple of times were much better. But I had the service 
manual by then.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#154084

On 6 Nov 2015 11:58:28 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:53:47 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>
>> On 6 Nov 2015 09:20:48 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>Fuser lamps are cheap although a pain to fit!
>>>
>>>That's how I acquired my first one; it was fine (28000 pages on the
>>>clock) but it had been moved and the fuser lamp filament had failed. It
>>>was just a few dollars for a new lamp, and about 90 minutes working out
>>>how to dismantle the fuser and replace the lamp.
>> 
>> It gets easy once you have done a few times.
>> 
>> Steve. (ex maintenance engineer)
>
> Oh yes, the next couple of times were much better. But I had the service 
> manual by then.

I didn't have a manual :-(   I got my 4050 real cheap with a spare
toner cartridge from a firm downgrading to something more modern!

-- 
Stan Barr     plan.b@bluesomatic.org
(Playing with unix since SVR3, 1989...a relative newby!)

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#154100

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 15:19:25 +0000, Stan Barr wrote:

> On 6 Nov 2015 11:58:28 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:53:47 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 Nov 2015 09:20:48 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>Fuser lamps are cheap although a pain to fit!
>>>>
>>>>That's how I acquired my first one; it was fine (28000 pages on the
>>>>clock) but it had been moved and the fuser lamp filament had failed.
>>>>It was just a few dollars for a new lamp, and about 90 minutes working
>>>>out how to dismantle the fuser and replace the lamp.
>>> 
>>> It gets easy once you have done a few times.
>>> 
>>> Steve. (ex maintenance engineer)
>>
>> Oh yes, the next couple of times were much better. But I had the
>> service manual by then.
> 
> I didn't have a manual :-(   I got my 4050 real cheap with a spare toner
> cartridge from a firm downgrading to something more modern!

My last two 4Ms (I have several) cost me £7 the pair on eBay. And they 
were 15 mins drive away.

Both took less than 20 mins to fix. Again, victims of 'downgrading'.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#154111

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015, Bob Eager wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 15:19:25 +0000, Stan Barr wrote:
>
>> On 6 Nov 2015 11:58:28 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:53:47 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6 Nov 2015 09:20:48 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Fuser lamps are cheap although a pain to fit!
>>>>>
>>>>> That's how I acquired my first one; it was fine (28000 pages on the
>>>>> clock) but it had been moved and the fuser lamp filament had failed.
>>>>> It was just a few dollars for a new lamp, and about 90 minutes working
>>>>> out how to dismantle the fuser and replace the lamp.
>>>>
>>>> It gets easy once you have done a few times.
>>>>
>>>> Steve. (ex maintenance engineer)
>>>
>>> Oh yes, the next couple of times were much better. But I had the
>>> service manual by then.
>>
>> I didn't have a manual :-(   I got my 4050 real cheap with a spare toner
>> cartridge from a firm downgrading to something more modern!
>
> My last two 4Ms (I have several) cost me £7 the pair on eBay. And they
> were 15 mins drive away.
>
> Both took less than 20 mins to fix. Again, victims of 'downgrading'.
>
I paid $15 Canadian for my 4P about a decade ago, the only thing wrong
that I could tell was the cover on the side where the memory upgrade goes
was missing.  And it might have simply fallen off on the way home.

It had a low page count when I got it, under 10,000 and maybe closer to 
5,000.  But the cartridge was a generic replacement.  SInce the cartridge 
didn't last long, but the page count suggested it should have, I think 
they swapped cartridges before dumping it on the Rotary Club where I 
bought it.

I should have bought another back when they were kind of plentiful at that 
price.  I keep seeing laser printers on the sidewalk, the kind that now 
cost under a hundred new, and I assume they work but the cartridge 
emptied.  But I also assume they may not be as sturdy as the 4P.

   Michael

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#154113

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 15:54:43 -0500, Michael Black wrote:

> I paid $15 Canadian for my 4P about a decade ago, the only thing wrong
> that I could tell was the cover on the side where the memory upgrade
> goes was missing.  And it might have simply fallen off on the way home.
> 
> It had a low page count when I got it, under 10,000 and maybe closer to
> 5,000.  But the cartridge was a generic replacement.  SInce the
> cartridge didn't last long, but the page count suggested it should have,
> I think they swapped cartridges before dumping it on the Rotary Club
> where I bought it.

I got a 2600n on Freecycle. It was only about a mile from where I live. 
OK, it doesn't talk PCL or PostScript, but it seemed worth it.

Got it home and (as the lady said) it printed monochrome OK but with a 
heavy magenta cast. The transfer belt was a mess. After some dismantling 
to check things, I figured out what was wrong.

- the error message on the panel was simply complaining that the black
  toner cartridge was non-HP. Ignore.
- I had a look at the cartridge status on its built in web server. Total
  pages ever printed - just over 4000. All colour cartridges empty.
  Conclusion: it was running on the original colour cartridges, and the
  black one had been changed (for a non HP one) just once.
- the magenta cast was from the waste toner hopper, which on those HP
  models is inside the toner cartridges and was obviously overflowing.

I got some bargain genuine HP cartridges. One cleaning cycle and all good 
as new. With 4000 pages on the clock! A big solid beast it is.




-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#154133

On 2015-11-06, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>   This message is in MIME format. 

Please don't. Usenet is a plain text medium.

-- 
Today is Sweetmorn, the 19th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3181
                  I don't have an attitude problem.
    If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.

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#154139

Stan Barr wrote:
> On 6 Nov 2015 11:58:28 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:53:47 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>
>>> On 6 Nov 2015 09:20:48 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Fuser lamps are cheap although a pain to fit!
>>>>
>>>>That's how I acquired my first one; it was fine (28000 pages on the
>>>>clock) but it had been moved and the fuser lamp filament had failed. It
>>>>was just a few dollars for a new lamp, and about 90 minutes working out
>>>>how to dismantle the fuser and replace the lamp.
>>>
>>> It gets easy once you have done a few times.
>>>
>>> Steve. (ex maintenance engineer)
>>
>> Oh yes, the next couple of times were much better. But I had the service
>> manual by then.
>
> I didn't have a manual :-(   I got my 4050 real cheap with a spare
> toner cartridge from a firm downgrading to something more modern!
>
Is this manual on bitsavers?

/BAH

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#154140

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 13:45:27 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:

> Stan Barr wrote:
>> On 6 Nov 2015 11:58:28 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:53:47 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6 Nov 2015 09:20:48 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Fuser lamps are cheap although a pain to fit!
>>>>>
>>>>>That's how I acquired my first one; it was fine (28000 pages on the
>>>>>clock) but it had been moved and the fuser lamp filament had failed.
>>>>>It was just a few dollars for a new lamp, and about 90 minutes
>>>>>working out how to dismantle the fuser and replace the lamp.
>>>>
>>>> It gets easy once you have done a few times.
>>>>
>>>> Steve. (ex maintenance engineer)
>>>
>>> Oh yes, the next couple of times were much better. But I had the
>>> service manual by then.
>>
>> I didn't have a manual :-(   I got my 4050 real cheap with a spare
>> toner cartridge from a firm downgrading to something more modern!
>>
> Is this manual on bitsavers?
> 
> /BAH

I had to buy a CD of loads of them off eBay at the time. But now:

 http://www.hpitechnologies.com/files/hp-laserjet-4-4-5-service-manual.pdf




-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#154173

Bob Eager wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 13:45:27 +0000, jmfbahciv wrote:
>
>> Stan Barr wrote:
>>> On 6 Nov 2015 11:58:28 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 09:53:47 +0000, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6 Nov 2015 09:20:48 GMT, Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Fuser lamps are cheap although a pain to fit!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's how I acquired my first one; it was fine (28000 pages on the
>>>>>>clock) but it had been moved and the fuser lamp filament had failed.
>>>>>>It was just a few dollars for a new lamp, and about 90 minutes
>>>>>>working out how to dismantle the fuser and replace the lamp.
>>>>>
>>>>> It gets easy once you have done a few times.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve. (ex maintenance engineer)
>>>>
>>>> Oh yes, the next couple of times were much better. But I had the
>>>> service manual by then.
>>>
>>> I didn't have a manual :-(   I got my 4050 real cheap with a spare
>>> toner cartridge from a firm downgrading to something more modern!
>>>
>> Is this manual on bitsavers?
>>
>> /BAH
>
> I had to buy a CD of loads of them off eBay at the time. But now:
>
>  http://www.hpitechnologies.com/files/hp-laserjet-4-4-5-service-manual.pdf

Is there anyone watching if files like those disappear?

/BAH

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#154039

On 05/11/2015 14:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 05:16:40 -0600
> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Can't say much good about HP.
>>
>> I recall when they were known for their excellent test equipment.
>
> 	For a short while they were known for their equally excellent
> printers, quite a few from that era are still in use. For many years
> afterwards they traded on the reputation they no longer deserved. It is a
> pity, there is a market for excellence at a price but the market for cheap
> crud is so much more profitable.
>
Profitable until people twig and buy the cheaper rival. Crud is easy to 
rival.

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#154069

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 21:19:14 +0000
Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 05/11/2015 14:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 05:16:40 -0600
> > philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Can't say much good about HP.
> >>
> >> I recall when they were known for their excellent test equipment.
> >
> > 	For a short while they were known for their equally excellent
> > printers, quite a few from that era are still in use. For many years
> > afterwards they traded on the reputation they no longer deserved. It is
> > a pity, there is a market for excellence at a price but the market for
> > cheap crud is so much more profitable.
> >
> Profitable until people twig and buy the cheaper rival. Crud is easy to 
> rival.

	Yes but sadly there's a big profit spike available if you have a
name for quality and suddenly appear in the middle of the low cost market
with stuff that looks good even if it's really crud. If you're really
clever you fork off the business and sell it just before people start to
catch on.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#154090

On 2015-11-06, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 21:19:14 +0000
> Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On 05/11/2015 14:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 05:16:40 -0600
>>> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can't say much good about HP.
>>>>
>>>> I recall when they were known for their excellent test equipment.
>>>
>>> 	For a short while they were known for their equally excellent
>>> printers, quite a few from that era are still in use. For many years
>>> afterwards they traded on the reputation they no longer deserved. It is
>>> a pity, there is a market for excellence at a price but the market for
>>> cheap crud is so much more profitable.
>>
>> Profitable until people twig and buy the cheaper rival. Crud is easy to 
>> rival.
>
> 	Yes but sadly there's a big profit spike available if you have a
> name for quality and suddenly appear in the middle of the low cost market
> with stuff that looks good even if it's really crud. If you're really
> clever you fork off the business and sell it just before people start to
> catch on.

That sounds like the most concise history of HP that I've heard.
Do you have a book coming out?

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

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#154373

In article <n1injp02or2@news6.newsguy.com>,
 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> > 	Yes but sadly there's a big profit spike available if you have a
> > name for quality and suddenly appear in the middle of the low cost market
> > with stuff that looks good even if it's really crud. If you're really
> > clever you fork off the business and sell it just before people start to
> > catch on.
> 
> That sounds like the most concise history of HP that I've heard.
> Do you have a book coming out?

Apparent profit from selling your good name. It's been known about 
probably long before I was in college. Back then it was creditors that 
would take over a business and require it to lower quality and live off
the name. Now, it's the executives who want the stock price up so they
can get their bonus.

Blech!

-- 
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

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#154372

In article <20151106101614.39849b10d9da1017c82afdd2@eircom.net>,
 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> Yes but sadly there's a big profit spike available if you have a
> name for quality and suddenly appear in the middle of the low cost market
> with stuff that looks good even if it's really crud. If you're really
> clever you fork off the business and sell it just before people start to
> catch on.

We used to support ourselves by making stuff. Then by selling each 
other houses. Now it's by picking each other's pockets.

-- 
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

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#154371

In article <KYWdnWLCj_MbWqbLnZ2dnUU78bednZ2d@giganews.com>,
 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:

> On 05/11/2015 14:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 05:16:40 -0600
> > philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Can't say much good about HP.
> >>
> >> I recall when they were known for their excellent test equipment.
> >
> > 	For a short while they were known for their equally excellent
> > printers, quite a few from that era are still in use. For many years
> > afterwards they traded on the reputation they no longer deserved. It is a
> > pity, there is a market for excellence at a price but the market for cheap
> > crud is so much more profitable.
> >
> Profitable until people twig and buy the cheaper rival. Crud is easy to 
> rival.

But is harder to make profits with commodity products. Price 
competition can be and usually is brutal, unless you can set
up some kind of cartel, including unspoken agreement not to
lower prices.

-- 
Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greed. Me.

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#154402

On 11/11/2015 17:57, Walter Bushell wrote:
> In article <KYWdnWLCj_MbWqbLnZ2dnUU78bednZ2d@giganews.com>,
>   Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On 05/11/2015 14:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 05:16:40 -0600
>>> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can't say much good about HP.
>>>>
>>>> I recall when they were known for their excellent test equipment.
>>>
>>> 	For a short while they were known for their equally excellent
>>> printers, quite a few from that era are still in use. For many years
>>> afterwards they traded on the reputation they no longer deserved. It is a
>>> pity, there is a market for excellence at a price but the market for cheap
>>> crud is so much more profitable.
>>>
>> Profitable until people twig and buy the cheaper rival. Crud is easy to
>> rival.
>
> But is harder to make profits with commodity products. Price
> competition can be and usually is brutal, unless you can set
> up some kind of cartel, including unspoken agreement not to
> lower prices.
>

In the printer market there appears to be an agreement not to use the 
same shape ink cartridge. This includes the interfaces of the 
controlling silicon chip.

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#154406

On Thu, 12 Nov 2015, Andrew Swallow wrote:

> On 11/11/2015 17:57, Walter Bushell wrote:
>> In article <KYWdnWLCj_MbWqbLnZ2dnUU78bednZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>   Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 05/11/2015 14:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 05:16:40 -0600
>>>> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Can't say much good about HP.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I recall when they were known for their excellent test equipment.
>>>>
>>>> 	For a short while they were known for their equally excellent
>>>> printers, quite a few from that era are still in use. For many years
>>>> afterwards they traded on the reputation they no longer deserved. It is a
>>>> pity, there is a market for excellence at a price but the market for 
>>>> cheap
>>>> crud is so much more profitable.
>>>> 
>>> Profitable until people twig and buy the cheaper rival. Crud is easy to
>>> rival.
>> 
>> But is harder to make profits with commodity products. Price
>> competition can be and usually is brutal, unless you can set
>> up some kind of cartel, including unspoken agreement not to
>> lower prices.
>> 
>
> In the printer market there appears to be an agreement not to use the same 
> shape ink cartridge. This includes the interfaces of the controlling silicon 
> chip.
>
That's hadly unique to laser printers.

I once found a nice dot matrix printer, maybe it was 24pin but it had a 
buffer and serial interface (when I needed it) and I went to the store, 
and there was a wall of ribbons for dot matrix printers, and none of them 
were what I needed.  I ended up buying something that looked about right, 
and transferring the ribbon to the case of the worn out ribbon cartridge.

I thought in the days of cloth ribbons for typewriters, they were either 
all the same, or just a few types.

But other electronic devices do it too.  Lots of cordless phones have a 
battery pack, and they all seem different from others.  It comes as a 
surprise to find some that use regular rechargeable batteries.  I found a 
nice 6mp camera with enough zoom, but the battery is dead and it's not 
standard.  So I can't even try the camera without spending money on it.

   Michael

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#154413

On 12/11/2015 04:33, Michael Black wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2015, Andrew Swallow wrote:
>
>> On 11/11/2015 17:57, Walter Bushell wrote:
>>> In article <KYWdnWLCj_MbWqbLnZ2dnUU78bednZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>>   Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/11/2015 14:08, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 05:16:40 -0600
>>>>> philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can't say much good about HP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recall when they were known for their excellent test equipment.
>>>>>
>>>>>     For a short while they were known for their equally excellent
>>>>> printers, quite a few from that era are still in use. For many years
>>>>> afterwards they traded on the reputation they no longer deserved.
>>>>> It is a
>>>>> pity, there is a market for excellence at a price but the market
>>>>> for cheap
>>>>> crud is so much more profitable.
>>>>>
>>>> Profitable until people twig and buy the cheaper rival. Crud is easy to
>>>> rival.
>>>
>>> But is harder to make profits with commodity products. Price
>>> competition can be and usually is brutal, unless you can set
>>> up some kind of cartel, including unspoken agreement not to
>>> lower prices.
>>>
>>
>> In the printer market there appears to be an agreement not to use the
>> same shape ink cartridge. This includes the interfaces of the
>> controlling silicon chip.
>>
> That's hadly unique to laser printers.
>
> I once found a nice dot matrix printer, maybe it was 24pin but it had a
> buffer and serial interface (when I needed it) and I went to the store,
> and there was a wall of ribbons for dot matrix printers, and none of
> them were what I needed.  I ended up buying something that looked about
> right, and transferring the ribbon to the case of the worn out ribbon
> cartridge.
>
> I thought in the days of cloth ribbons for typewriters, they were either
> all the same, or just a few types.
>
> But other electronic devices do it too.  Lots of cordless phones have a
> battery pack, and they all seem different from others.  It comes as a
> surprise to find some that use regular rechargeable batteries.  I found
> a nice 6mp camera with enough zoom, but the battery is dead and it's not
> standard.  So I can't even try the camera without spending money on it.
>
>    Michael
>

Time we told our employers that they need to push for standardisation of 
printer cartridges. If printers are like Gillette Razors they 
manufactures make more money on the cartridges than on the printer.

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#154428

Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> writes:
>
> Time we told our employers that they need to push for standardisation
> of printer cartridges. If printers are like Gillette Razors they
> manufactures make more money on the cartridges than on the printer.

Oh, now doubt.  I just bought a shiny new all-in-one
printer/fax/scanner/copier, with a maximum print resolution of
4800x2400 dip, maximum (hardware) scanner resolution of 1200x2400 dpi,
capable of handling 13"x19" paper and scanning 11.7x17"... for $149.99.

At the same time, I bought a set of high-capacity cartridges (it takes
four cartridges)...  for $127.00

Not much question where Epson makes its money...

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