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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234452 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-03-30 19:12 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-03-31 22:19 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 137 — 24 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-30 19:12 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:01 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:02 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 00:44 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-31 19:46 +0000
Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 20:48 +0000
Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-01 23:23 +0000
Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 10:53 +0000
Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-02 07:29 -0700
Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-02 16:58 +0000
Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-02 20:34 +0000
Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-02 20:53 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 21:01 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-03 16:53 -1000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-04 03:57 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-04 07:37 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-04 21:55 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-04 15:48 -0700
Re: ancient time sharingSelf-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-05 02:27 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-04 22:03 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-04 12:31 -1000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-04 07:40 -1000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-04-04 13:44 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 (VSCP) ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2026-04-05 20:23 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-04 12:53 -1000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-04 23:44 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-04-05 09:29 +0100
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-05 19:22 +0000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-05 14:30 -1000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-05 20:02 -0700
history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-11 09:05 -0300
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-11 16:49 +0200
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-11 15:58 +0100
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-11 13:38 -0300
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-11 19:41 +0200
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-11 19:18 +0100
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-11 21:27 +0200
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-11 21:13 +0000
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-12 14:47 -1000
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-09-13 15:02 -0700
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 16:27 -0700
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-14 15:11 -1000
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 04:19 +0000
Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-09-13 14:56 -0700
Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 04:10 +0000
Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-09-15 05:46 -0700
Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-15 07:51 -0700
Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 23:22 +0000
Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 23:13 +0000
Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-15 16:48 +0200
Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-09-15 08:19 -0700
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-12 14:13 -1000
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-12 14:12 -1000
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-13 14:02 -0300
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-13 18:55 +0100
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-13 19:03 +0100
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-13 19:07 +0100
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 16:21 -0700
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 00:37 +0100
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 20:56 -0700
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-14 04:12 +0000
Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-14 15:06 -1000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-06 01:42 +0000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-05 20:05 -0700
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-06 07:03 +0000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-05 22:19 -1000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-06 08:20 +0000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-06 12:03 +0000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-06 07:30 -0700
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-06 07:39 -1000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-06 12:05 -0700
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-06 17:41 -1000
position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-11 09:42 -0300
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-12 15:12 -1000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 01:57 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-12 21:14 -0700
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2026-09-17 17:06 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-17 17:56 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2026-09-18 14:08 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 19:29 +0100
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 12:00 -0700
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-18 20:35 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-09-17 11:32 -0700
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) James Dow Allen <user4353@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-13 07:31 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 07:45 -0700
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 16:50 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 16:18 -0700
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 04:21 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-15 14:33 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-15 07:37 -0700
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 23:35 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-14 14:41 -1000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 01:54 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-13 14:53 -0300
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 22:18 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 16:24 -0700
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-14 01:51 +0000
Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-14 14:53 +0000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-06 19:21 +0000
Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-04-06 21:25 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-31 02:32 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-31 04:06 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-03-31 08:52 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-31 18:07 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 13:51 -0700
Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 00:58 +0000
Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-31 07:35 -0700
Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-31 14:54 +0000
Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-31 13:01 -0700
Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 22:14 +0000
Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-31 22:32 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-01 02:06 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-04-01 09:53 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 16:07 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-04-01 16:27 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-01 16:10 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-01 17:15 +0100
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-04-01 16:28 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-01 16:48 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-01 17:44 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-01 14:21 -0700
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-01 20:40 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-01 22:02 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-02 15:28 +0100
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-02 15:36 +0000
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-02 17:15 +0100
Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 16:44 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:30 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-03-30 23:28 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 23:36 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-31 07:46 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-31 15:54 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 19:03 +0000
Re: VM history, was Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 01:04 +0000
Re: VM history, was Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 22:17 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 15:36 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 22:19 +0000
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-13 16:27 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <1187bhg$1205n$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235616 |
On 9/13/26 15:02, Lars Poulsen wrote: > On 9/12/2026 17:47, Lynn Wheeler wrote: >> [...] >> trivia: WYLBUR original came from stanford's virtual memory >> system done for 360/67 ... Univ of Michigan had done MTS >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Terminal_System >> and Stanford had done ORVYL >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORVYL_and_WYLBUR >> ... later WYLBUR was ported to MVS > > I wonder why there were so many CRJE systems with almost identical > features: > * WYLBUR (from Stanford) > * WITS (from Waterloo) > * CRJE (IBM's official option for MVT and MVS) > ... any that I have forgotten? > > Of course, there was also TSO, but it was a dog, performance wise, so > none of the education places I knew would use it. I expect that the IBM > develoment sites used it to develop MVS code? Every place I worked used TSO until we got VM.
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| From | Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-14 15:11 -1000 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <87fqzb9v35.fsf@localhost> |
| In reply to | #235616 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> writes: > I wonder why there were so many CRJE systems with almost identical features: > * WYLBUR (from Stanford) > * WITS (from Waterloo) > * CRJE (IBM's official option for MVT and MVS) > ... any that I have forgotten? > > Of course, there was also TSO, but it was a dog, performance wise, so > none of the education places I knew would use it. I expect that the > IBM develoment sites used it to develop MVS code? CP/67 had arrived with 1052&2741 terminal support and auto-terminal ident, capable switching terminal type scanner type for each port. Univ. also had TTY33&35 and I add ASCII support integrated with auto-terminal type. I then want to have single dial-in number (hunt group) for all terminals. Didn't quite work, IBM had hard-wired line speed ... so we start a clone terminal controller. Build a IBM channel interface board for Interdata/3 programmed to emulate IBM controller with the addition for auto-baud. Then upgraded with Interdata/4 for channel interface and cluster of Interdata/3s for port interfaces. Interdata (and later Perkin-Elmer) sell them as clone controllers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkin-Elmer#Computer_Systems_Division ... and four of us are written up responsible for (some part of) IBM clone controller business. Other trivia, when tty/ascii port scanner for 360/67, it came in "Heathkit" box. Before leaving for Boeing. I modified HASP for MVT18, with CRJE implementation, including editor that implemented CMS edit syntax (environments were so different that couldn't reuse any code). -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-15 04:19 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <118ah06$24bfv$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235632 |
On Mon, 14 Sep 2026 15:11:58 -1000, Lynn Wheeler wrote: > Before leaving for Boeing. I modified HASP for MVT18 ... Fun fact (for those who didn’t know): “HASP” stood for “Houston Automatic Spooling Priority”. The “Houston” in question was NASA’s Mission Control.
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-13 14:56 -0700 |
| Subject | Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) |
| Message-ID | <1187665$10c2s$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235585 |
On 9/11/2026 12:27, Jeroen Belleman wrote: > [...] > When I started at CERN in 1981, the principal computer > system was an IBM 360. We used WYLBUR for the editing > environment, with exec files for simple things and batch > processing with JCL for the more serious work. > It was clumsy, but I didn't know any better at the time. When I worked in Copenhagen at the Niels Bohr Institute and later at RECKU (the larger academic datacenter at University of Copenhagen) in the early 1990s, the experimental physicists traveling the circuit between SUNY Stony Brook, CERN and Copenhagen with their suitcases full of dusty decks of FORTRAN IV cards, hated the IBM 360-s with a vengeance due to their lack of precision when computing wave functions. They liked the 36-bit IBM709x and UNIVAC 36-bit systems much better, but they REALLY loved the CDC 6600s at CERN (and later Aarhus) because of the 60-bit floating point format. At the time, UofCPH had Univacs, the Technical University in Lyngby had IBM7094 and IBM360, and Aarhus had a CDC6600. The 709x was tape only (or cards entered from 360 ASP), the 360 was RJE with cards through HASP or WITS a "conversational RJE system" from Waterloo. The UNIVAC had proper time sharing (and a very good batch job scheduler) and the CDC also had good time sharing. What made CERN back down from 60-bit systems? -- Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-15 04:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) |
| Message-ID | <118agf7$24bfv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235615 |
On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 14:56:20 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> When I worked in Copenhagen at the Niels Bohr Institute and later at
> RECKU (the larger academic datacenter at University of Copenhagen)
> in the early 1990s, the experimental physicists traveling the
> circuit between SUNY Stony Brook, CERN and Copenhagen with their
> suitcases full of dusty decks of FORTRAN IV cards, hated the IBM
> 360-s with a vengeance due to their lack of precision when computing
> wave functions. They liked the 36-bit IBM709x and UNIVAC 36-bit
> systems much better, but they REALLY loved the CDC 6600s at CERN
> (and later Aarhus) because of the 60-bit floating point format.
Prof William “Mr IEEE-754” Kahan’s foreword to the “Standard Apple Numerics
Manual” had this to say about some of those machines:
For instance, a very Important Bunch of Machines launched in 1964
were found to have two anomalies in their double-precision
arithmetic (though not in single): First, multiplying a number /Z/
by 1.0 would lop off /Z/'s last digit. Second, the difference
between two nearly equal numbers, whose digits mostly canceled,
could be computed wrong by a factor almost as big as 16 instead of
being computed exactly as is normal. The anomalies introduced a
kind of noise in the feedback loops by which some programs had
compensated for their own rounding errors, so those programs lost
their high accuracies. These anomalies were not "bugs"; they were
"features" designed into the arithmetic by designers who thought
nobody would care. Customers did care; the arithmetic was
redesigned and repairs were retrofitted in 1967.
Not all Capriciously Designed Computer arithmetics have been
repaired. One family of computers has enjoyed notoriety for two
decades by allowing programs to generate tiny "partially
underflowed" numbers. When one of these creatures turns up as the
value of /T/ in an otherwise innocuous statement like
if T = 0.0 then Q := 0.0 else Q := 702345.6 / (T + 0.00189 / T);
it causes the computer to stop execution and emit a message
alleging "Division by Zero". The machine's schizophrenic attitude
toward zero comes about because the test for T = 0.0 is carried
out by the adder, which examines at least 13 of /T/'s leading
digits, whereas the divider and multiplier examine only 12 to
recognize zero. Doing so saved less than a dollar's worth of
transistors and maybe a picosecond of time, but at the cost of
some disagreement about whether a very tiny number /T/ is zero or
not. Fortunately, the divider agrees with the multiplier about
whether /T/ is zero, so programmers could prevent spurious
divisions by zero by slightly altering the foregoing statement as
follows:
if 1.0 * T = 0.0 then Q := 0.0 else Q := 702345.6 / (T + 0.00189 / T);
Unfortunately, the Same Computer designer responsible for "partial
underflow" designed another machine that can generate "partially
underflowed" numbers /T/ for which this statement malfunctions. On
that machine, /Q/ would be computed unexceptionably except that
the product 1.0 * T causes the machine to stop and emit a message
alleging "Overflow". How should a programmer rewrite that
innocuous statement so that it will work correctly on both
machines? We should be thankful that such a task is not
encountered every day.
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-15 05:46 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) |
| Message-ID | <118bemv$2ei30$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235633 |
On 9/14/2026 21:10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 14:56:20 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >> When I worked in Copenhagen at the Niels Bohr Institute and later at >> RECKU (the larger academic datacenter at University of Copenhagen) >> in the early 1990s, the experimental physicists traveling the >> circuit between SUNY Stony Brook, CERN and Copenhagen with their >> suitcases full of dusty decks of FORTRAN IV cards, hated the IBM >> 360-s with a vengeance due to their lack of precision when computing >> wave functions. They liked the 36-bit IBM709x and UNIVAC 36-bit >> systems much better, but they REALLY loved the CDC 6600s at CERN >> (and later Aarhus) because of the 60-bit floating point format. > > Prof William “Mr IEEE-754” Kahan’s foreword to the “Standard Apple Numerics > Manual” had this to say about some of those machines: > > For instance, a very Important Bunch of Machines launched in 1964 > were found to have two anomalies in their double-precision > arithmetic (though not in single): First, multiplying a number /Z/ > by 1.0 would lop off /Z/'s last digit. Second, the difference > between two nearly equal numbers, whose digits mostly canceled, > could be computed wrong by a factor almost as big as 16 instead of > being computed exactly as is normal. The anomalies introduced a > kind of noise in the feedback loops by which some programs had > compensated for their own rounding errors, so those programs lost > their high accuracies. These anomalies were not "bugs"; they were > "features" designed into the arithmetic by designers who thought > nobody would care. Customers did care; the arithmetic was > redesigned and repairs were retrofitted in 1967. > > Not all Capriciously Designed Computer arithmetics have been > repaired. One family of computers has enjoyed notoriety for two > decades by allowing programs to generate tiny "partially > underflowed" numbers. When one of these creatures turns up as the > value of /T/ in an otherwise innocuous statement like > > if T = 0.0 then Q := 0.0 else Q := 702345.6 / (T + 0.00189 / T); > > it causes the computer to stop execution and emit a message > alleging "Division by Zero". The machine's schizophrenic attitude > toward zero comes about because the test for T = 0.0 is carried > out by the adder, which examines at least 13 of /T/'s leading > digits, whereas the divider and multiplier examine only 12 to > recognize zero. Doing so saved less than a dollar's worth of > transistors and maybe a picosecond of time, but at the cost of > some disagreement about whether a very tiny number /T/ is zero or > not. Fortunately, the divider agrees with the multiplier about > whether /T/ is zero, so programmers could prevent spurious > divisions by zero by slightly altering the foregoing statement as > follows: > > if 1.0 * T = 0.0 then Q := 0.0 else Q := 702345.6 / (T + 0.00189 / T); > > Unfortunately, the Same Computer designer responsible for "partial > underflow" designed another machine that can generate "partially > underflowed" numbers /T/ for which this statement malfunctions. On > that machine, /Q/ would be computed unexceptionably except that > the product 1.0 * T causes the machine to stop and emit a message > alleging "Overflow". How should a programmer rewrite that > innocuous statement so that it will work correctly on both > machines? We should be thankful that such a task is not > encountered every day. Holy shit!! And modern compilers might optimize away the workaround. Who was the designer? I asked "CoPilot" "Which computer designer invented partial underflow" and with slight variations in the wording of the prompt it suggested first Johann Joss, then Charles Babbage and finally John von Neumann. I assume the correct answer is either Gene Amdahl (or someone on his team) or Seymour Cray (or someone on his team) ??? -- Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-15 07:51 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) |
| Message-ID | <118bm1r$2henp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235637 |
On 9/15/26 05:46, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> On 9/14/2026 21:10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 14:56:20 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>
>>> When I worked in Copenhagen at the Niels Bohr Institute and later at
>>> RECKU (the larger academic datacenter at University of Copenhagen)
>>> in the early 1990s, the experimental physicists traveling the
>>> circuit between SUNY Stony Brook, CERN and Copenhagen with their
>>> suitcases full of dusty decks of FORTRAN IV cards, hated the IBM
>>> 360-s with a vengeance due to their lack of precision when computing
>>> wave functions. They liked the 36-bit IBM709x and UNIVAC 36-bit
>>> systems much better, but they REALLY loved the CDC 6600s at CERN
>>> (and later Aarhus) because of the 60-bit floating point format.
>>
>> Prof William “Mr IEEE-754” Kahan’s foreword to the “Standard Apple
>> Numerics
>> Manual” had this to say about some of those machines:
>>
>> For instance, a very Important Bunch of Machines launched in 1964
>> were found to have two anomalies in their double-precision
>> arithmetic (though not in single): First, multiplying a number /Z/
>> by 1.0 would lop off /Z/'s last digit. Second, the difference
>> between two nearly equal numbers, whose digits mostly canceled,
>> could be computed wrong by a factor almost as big as 16 instead of
>> being computed exactly as is normal. The anomalies introduced a
>> kind of noise in the feedback loops by which some programs had
>> compensated for their own rounding errors, so those programs lost
>> their high accuracies. These anomalies were not "bugs"; they were
>> "features" designed into the arithmetic by designers who thought
>> nobody would care. Customers did care; the arithmetic was
>> redesigned and repairs were retrofitted in 1967.
>>
>> Not all Capriciously Designed Computer arithmetics have been
>> repaired. One family of computers has enjoyed notoriety for two
>> decades by allowing programs to generate tiny "partially
>> underflowed" numbers. When one of these creatures turns up as the
>> value of /T/ in an otherwise innocuous statement like
>>
>> if T = 0.0 then Q := 0.0 else Q := 702345.6 / (T + 0.00189 / T);
>>
>> it causes the computer to stop execution and emit a message
>> alleging "Division by Zero". The machine's schizophrenic attitude
>> toward zero comes about because the test for T = 0.0 is carried
>> out by the adder, which examines at least 13 of /T/'s leading
>> digits, whereas the divider and multiplier examine only 12 to
>> recognize zero. Doing so saved less than a dollar's worth of
>> transistors and maybe a picosecond of time, but at the cost of
>> some disagreement about whether a very tiny number /T/ is zero or
>> not. Fortunately, the divider agrees with the multiplier about
>> whether /T/ is zero, so programmers could prevent spurious
>> divisions by zero by slightly altering the foregoing statement as
>> follows:
>>
>> if 1.0 * T = 0.0 then Q := 0.0 else Q := 702345.6 / (T +
>> 0.00189 / T);
>>
>> Unfortunately, the Same Computer designer responsible for "partial
>> underflow" designed another machine that can generate "partially
>> underflowed" numbers /T/ for which this statement malfunctions. On
>> that machine, /Q/ would be computed unexceptionably except that
>> the product 1.0 * T causes the machine to stop and emit a message
>> alleging "Overflow". How should a programmer rewrite that
>> innocuous statement so that it will work correctly on both
>> machines? We should be thankful that such a task is not
>> encountered every day.
>
> Holy shit!! And modern compilers might optimize away the workaround.
> Who was the designer? I asked "CoPilot" "Which computer designer
> invented partial underflow" and with slight variations in the wording of
> the prompt it suggested first Johann Joss, then Charles Babbage and
> finally John von Neumann.
>
> I assume the correct answer is either Gene Amdahl (or someone on his
> team) or Seymour Cray (or someone on his team) ???
This stuff is why I hate floating point.
Here's a folklore story from my first job in the very olden days.
A company I worked for had a contract from IBM to develop some business
applications for the 1130 (http://ibm1130.org/}. The only language
available was FORTRAN ("IV", although really not). This was a 16-bit
machine, so fixed-point numbers only up to 32767. Later IBM introduced a
"commercial" subroutine library for the 1130 with nice stuff like
decimal arithmetic, but we didn't have that yet, so we used floating
point, which allowed double precision. If you've ever tried to do
payroll calculations in floating point, my only piece of advice is
DON'T. I did learn a lot about the nitty-gritties fo FP rounding.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-15 23:22 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) |
| Message-ID | <118cjvf$2skr3$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235642 |
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 07:51:36 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
> This stuff is why I hate floating point.
Don’t. The whole point of Kahan’s foreword was to highlight what a
trainwreck floating-point was before IEEE-754 came along. He went on
to say:
/These strange things cannot happen on current Apple computers./
And he did have some kind words to say about other companies:
I do not wish to suggest that all but Apple computers have had
quirky arithmetics. A few other computer companies, some Highly
Prestigious, have Demonstrated Exemplary Concern for arithmetic
integrity over many years. Had their concern been shared more
widely, numerical computation would now be easier to understand.
Of course, the floating-point spec that he was instrumental in
creating has become completely universal -- nowadays, nobody would
think of doing floating-point on a machine/OS/software stack that
didn’t support it.
> Later IBM introduced a "commercial" subroutine library for the 1130
> with nice stuff like decimal arithmetic, but we didn't have that
> yet, so we used floating point, which allowed double precision. If
> you've ever tried to do payroll calculations in floating point, my
> only piece of advice is DON'T. I did learn a lot about the
> nitty-gritties fo FP rounding.
The problem is not necessarily with floating-point, but with the
surprises that can arise from doing arithmetic in base-2. This is why
the current IEEE-754 spec has added decimal-float formats.
Now we just have to wait while adoption of the updated spec slowly
spreads ...
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-15 23:13 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) |
| Message-ID | <118cjf5$2skr3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235637 |
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 05:46:21 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote: > On 9/14/2026 21:10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >> Unfortunately, the Same Computer designer responsible for "partial >> underflow" designed another machine that can generate "partially >> underflowed" numbers ... > > Who was the designer? I asked "CoPilot" "Which computer designer > invented partial underflow" and with slight variations in the > wording of the prompt it suggested first Johann Joss, then Charles > Babbage and finally John von Neumann. > > I assume the correct answer is either Gene Amdahl (or someone on his > team) or Seymour Cray (or someone on his team) ??? Kahan is obviously saying the answer is Seymour Cray.
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| From | Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-15 16:48 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) |
| Message-ID | <118blrr$2ghd8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235633 |
On 9/15/26 06:10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 14:56:20 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >> When I worked in Copenhagen at the Niels Bohr Institute and later at >> RECKU (the larger academic datacenter at University of Copenhagen) >> in the early 1990s, the experimental physicists traveling the >> circuit between SUNY Stony Brook, CERN and Copenhagen with their >> suitcases full of dusty decks of FORTRAN IV cards, hated the IBM >> 360-s with a vengeance due to their lack of precision when computing >> wave functions. They liked the 36-bit IBM709x and UNIVAC 36-bit >> systems much better, but they REALLY loved the CDC 6600s at CERN >> (and later Aarhus) because of the 60-bit floating point format. > > Prof William “Mr IEEE-754” Kahan’s foreword to the “Standard Apple Numerics > Manual” had this to say about some of those machines: > > For instance, a very Important Bunch of Machines launched in 1964 > were found to have two anomalies in their double-precision > arithmetic (though not in single): First, multiplying a number /Z/ > by 1.0 would lop off /Z/'s last digit. Second, the difference > between two nearly equal numbers, whose digits mostly canceled, > could be computed wrong by a factor almost as big as 16 instead of > being computed exactly as is normal. The anomalies introduced a > kind of noise in the feedback loops by which some programs had > compensated for their own rounding errors, so those programs lost > their high accuracies. These anomalies were not "bugs"; they were > "features" designed into the arithmetic by designers who thought > nobody would care. Customers did care; the arithmetic was > redesigned and repairs were retrofitted in 1967. > > Not all Capriciously Designed Computer arithmetics have been > repaired. One family of computers has enjoyed notoriety for two > decades by allowing programs to generate tiny "partially > underflowed" numbers. When one of these creatures turns up as the > value of /T/ in an otherwise innocuous statement like > > if T = 0.0 then Q := 0.0 else Q := 702345.6 / (T + 0.00189 / T); I don't know where this gem comes from, but I don't want to fly in it. So flawed! Jeroen Belleman
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| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-15 08:19 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) |
| Message-ID | <20260915081919.00004e4c@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #235633 |
On Tue, 15 Sep 2026 04:10:15 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > Prof William “Mr IEEE-754” Kahan’s foreword to the “Standard Apple > Numerics Manual” had this to say about some of those machines: Oh that's wonderfully cheeky =^_^=
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| From | Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-12 14:13 -1000 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <87h5ju100g.fsf@localhost> |
| In reply to | #235577 |
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> writes: > Where did Lynn's article come from? the CERN/MVS/VM370 comparison reference came from being their -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-12 14:12 -1000 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <87ld96102y.fsf@localhost> |
| In reply to | #235569 |
Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> writes: >> trivia: old archived post with decade of VAX/VMS numbers ... VM/4341s >> sold in approx. same numbers in single or small unit numbers ... big >> difference were the large orders for hundreds of VM/4341 at a time. >> https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 > > Sad to say, garlic.com seems to have broken your link here. > <https://web.archive.org/web/20260310072508/https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0> > works for now. Your post archive links are extremely valuable, and I > hope you can get your archive back on the live web — and maybe license > it under a Creative Commons license so that it’s clearly legal for > people to archive. ... PCs & PC browser seem to work ... it seems to be mostly cellphone and tablet for which it has disappeared. -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-13 14:02 -0300 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <8733vdqe3j.fsf@debian> |
| In reply to | #235593 |
Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes: > Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> writes: >>[Lynn Wheeler wrote:] >>> https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 >> >> Sad to say, garlic.com seems to have broken your link here. > > ... PCs & PC browser seem to work ... it seems to be mostly cellphone > and tablet for which it has disappeared. If you send an HTTPS request for "/~lynn/2002f.html" to www.garlic.com (77.37.114.68), it responds, saying, “South Valley Internet. Garlic.com. [Check Availability]. The page can’t be found. It looks like nothing was found at this location,” and giving the addresses and phone numbers of a company in Morgan Hill, California, rather than your archived posts. This unlikely to be related to which browser you’re using, but in case it is, I'm using Firefox 128.3.1esr for Linux. Kragen
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-13 18:55 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <ngo6dbFdgp0U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #235608 |
Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote: > This unlikely to be related to which browser you’re using, but in case > it is, I'm using Firefox 128.3.1esr for Linux. Similarly broken Windows 11 firefox 155 and MS Edge looks as though their web server no longer recognises /~user for a home directory?
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-13 19:03 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <ngo6rpFdinuU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #235611 |
Andy Burns wrote: > looks as though their web server no longer recognises /~user for a home > directory? Uh-oh ... "Welcome to the New Garlic.com Hi guys, so glad you’re here. It’s Elise. After a lot of late nights and more coffee than I’d like to admit, our brand new website is live. This is a soft launch, which is my polite way of saying we’re still smoothing out the edges. You might find a page that’s a little rough or a link that doesn’t go quite where it should. If you do, I’d love to hear about it."
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-13 19:07 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <ngo730Fdk2fU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #235612 |
Andy Burns wrote: > After a lot of late nights and more coffee than I’d like to admit, our > brand new website is live. <https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/uploads/thelocalloop/optimized/1X/79839ffe9b6a08e36023b7fa474015f4d96fddd9_2_1000x1000.jpeg>
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-13 16:21 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <1187b6a$1205n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235608 |
On 9/13/26 10:02, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote: > Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes: > >> Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> writes: >>> [Lynn Wheeler wrote:] >>>> https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 >>> >>> Sad to say, garlic.com seems to have broken your link here. >> >> ... PCs & PC browser seem to work ... it seems to be mostly cellphone >> and tablet for which it has disappeared. > > If you send an HTTPS request for "/~lynn/2002f.html" to www.garlic.com > (77.37.114.68), it responds, saying, “South Valley Internet. > Garlic.com. [Check Availability]. The page can’t be found. It looks > like nothing was found at this location,” and giving the addresses and > phone numbers of a company in Morgan Hill, California, rather than your > archived posts. > > This unlikely to be related to which browser you’re using, but in case > it is, I'm using Firefox 128.3.1esr for Linux. > It works for me. FF155.0.1, Ubuntu 24.04.4 64-bit
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| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-14 00:37 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <1187c3r$11u8j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235619 |
On 2026-09-14, Peter Flass wrote: > On 9/13/26 10:02, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote: >> Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes: >> >>> Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> writes: >>>> [Lynn Wheeler wrote:] >>>>> https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 >>>> >>>> Sad to say, garlic.com seems to have broken your link here. >>> >>> ... PCs & PC browser seem to work ... it seems to be mostly cellphone >>> and tablet for which it has disappeared. >> >> If you send an HTTPS request for "/~lynn/2002f.html" to www.garlic.com >> (77.37.114.68), it responds, saying, “South Valley Internet. >> Garlic.com. [Check Availability]. The page can’t be found. It looks >> like nothing was found at this location,” and giving the addresses and >> phone numbers of a company in Morgan Hill, California, rather than your >> archived posts. >> >> This unlikely to be related to which browser you’re using, but in case >> it is, I'm using Firefox 128.3.1esr for Linux. >> > It works for me. FF155.0.1, Ubuntu 24.04.4 64-bit You mean you don't get a "The page can't be found" message and you see Lynn's website? -- Nuno Silva
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-09-13 20:56 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) |
| Message-ID | <1187r8q$16bhf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #235622 |
On 9/13/26 16:37, Nuno Silva wrote: > On 2026-09-14, Peter Flass wrote: > >> On 9/13/26 10:02, Kragen Javier Sitaker wrote: >>> Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes: >>> >>>> Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> writes: >>>>> [Lynn Wheeler wrote:] >>>>>> https://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 >>>>> >>>>> Sad to say, garlic.com seems to have broken your link here. >>>> >>>> ... PCs & PC browser seem to work ... it seems to be mostly cellphone >>>> and tablet for which it has disappeared. >>> >>> If you send an HTTPS request for "/~lynn/2002f.html" to www.garlic.com >>> (77.37.114.68), it responds, saying, “South Valley Internet. >>> Garlic.com. [Check Availability]. The page can’t be found. It looks >>> like nothing was found at this location,” and giving the addresses and >>> phone numbers of a company in Morgan Hill, California, rather than your >>> archived posts. >>> >>> This unlikely to be related to which browser you’re using, but in case >>> it is, I'm using Firefox 128.3.1esr for Linux. >>> >> It works for me. FF155.0.1, Ubuntu 24.04.4 64-bit > > You mean you don't get a "The page can't be found" message and you see > Lynn's website? > Well, NOW I'm getting a 404.
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