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Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX )

From Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX )
Date 2026-09-15 16:48 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <118blrr$2ghd8$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <1181eh1$339lf$1@dont-email.me> <ngiuv9Fij2nU1@mid.individual.net> <1181knq$339lf$3@dont-email.me> <1187665$10c2s$1@dont-email.me> <118agf7$24bfv$1@dont-email.me>

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On 9/15/26 06:10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Sep 2026 14:56:20 -0700, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> 
>> When I worked in Copenhagen at the Niels Bohr Institute and later at
>> RECKU (the larger academic datacenter at University of Copenhagen)
>> in the early 1990s, the experimental physicists traveling the
>> circuit between SUNY Stony Brook, CERN and Copenhagen with their
>> suitcases full of dusty decks of FORTRAN IV cards, hated the IBM
>> 360-s with a vengeance due to their lack of precision when computing
>> wave functions. They liked the 36-bit IBM709x and UNIVAC 36-bit
>> systems much better, but they REALLY loved the CDC 6600s at CERN
>> (and later Aarhus) because of the 60-bit floating point format.
> 
> Prof William “Mr IEEE-754” Kahan’s foreword to the “Standard Apple Numerics
> Manual” had this to say about some of those machines:
> 
>      For instance, a very Important Bunch of Machines launched in 1964
>      were found to have two anomalies in their double-precision
>      arithmetic (though not in single): First, multiplying a number /Z/
>      by 1.0 would lop off /Z/'s last digit. Second, the difference
>      between two nearly equal numbers, whose digits mostly canceled,
>      could be computed wrong by a factor almost as big as 16 instead of
>      being computed exactly as is normal. The anomalies introduced a
>      kind of noise in the feedback loops by which some programs had
>      compensated for their own rounding errors, so those programs lost
>      their high accuracies. These anomalies were not "bugs"; they were
>      "features" designed into the arithmetic by designers who thought
>      nobody would care. Customers did care; the arithmetic was
>      redesigned and repairs were retrofitted in 1967.
> 
>      Not all Capriciously Designed Computer arithmetics have been
>      repaired. One family of computers has enjoyed notoriety for two
>      decades by allowing programs to generate tiny "partially
>      underflowed" numbers. When one of these creatures turns up as the
>      value of /T/ in an otherwise innocuous statement like
> 
>      if T = 0.0 then Q := 0.0 else Q := 702345.6 / (T + 0.00189 / T);

I don't know where this gem comes from, but I don't want to fly
in it. So flawed!

Jeroen Belleman

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Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-30 19:12 +0000
  Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:01 +0100
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:02 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 00:44 +0000
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-31 19:46 +0000
        Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 20:48 +0000
          Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-01 23:23 +0000
            Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 10:53 +0000
              Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-02 07:29 -0700
                Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-02 16:58 +0000
                Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-02 20:34 +0000
                Re: TSS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-04-02 20:53 +0000
        Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 21:01 +0000
        Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-03 16:53 -1000
          Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-04 03:57 +0000
            Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-04 07:37 -0700
              Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-04 21:55 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-04 15:48 -0700
                Re: ancient time sharingSelf-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-05 02:27 +0000
              Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-04 22:03 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-04 12:31 -1000
            Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-04 07:40 -1000
            Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-04-04 13:44 -0700
              Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 (VSCP) ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2026-04-05 20:23 +0000
        Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-04 12:53 -1000
          Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-04 23:44 +0000
            Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-04-05 09:29 +0100
              Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-05 19:22 +0000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-05 14:30 -1000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-05 20:02 -0700
                history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-11 09:05 -0300
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-11 16:49 +0200
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-11 15:58 +0100
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-11 13:38 -0300
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-11 19:41 +0200
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-11 19:18 +0100
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-11 21:27 +0200
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-11 21:13 +0000
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-12 14:47 -1000
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-09-13 15:02 -0700
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 16:27 -0700
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-14 15:11 -1000
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 04:19 +0000
                Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-09-13 14:56 -0700
                Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 04:10 +0000
                Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-09-15 05:46 -0700
                Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-15 07:51 -0700
                Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 23:22 +0000
                Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 23:13 +0000
                Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-09-15 16:48 +0200
                Re: Computes at CERN (Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX ) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-09-15 08:19 -0700
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-12 14:13 -1000
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-12 14:12 -1000
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-13 14:02 -0300
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-13 18:55 +0100
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-13 19:03 +0100
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-13 19:07 +0100
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 16:21 -0700
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-14 00:37 +0100
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 20:56 -0700
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-14 04:12 +0000
                Re: history of ASCII and IBM ratfucking, and the VAX (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-14 15:06 -1000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-06 01:42 +0000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-05 20:05 -0700
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-06 07:03 +0000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-05 22:19 -1000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-06 08:20 +0000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-06 12:03 +0000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-06 07:30 -0700
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-06 07:39 -1000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-06 12:05 -0700
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-04-06 17:41 -1000
                position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-11 09:42 -0300
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-12 15:12 -1000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 01:57 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-12 21:14 -0700
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2026-09-17 17:06 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-17 17:56 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2026-09-18 14:08 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-18 19:29 +0100
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-09-18 12:00 -0700
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-09-18 20:35 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2026-09-17 11:32 -0700
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) James Dow Allen <user4353@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-09-13 07:31 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 07:45 -0700
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 16:50 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 16:18 -0700
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 04:21 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-15 14:33 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-15 07:37 -0700
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-15 23:35 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-09-14 14:41 -1000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 01:54 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Kragen Javier Sitaker <kragen@canonical.org> - 2026-09-13 14:53 -0300
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-09-13 22:18 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-09-13 16:24 -0700
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-09-14 01:51 +0000
                Re: position-independent code (was Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-09-14 14:53 +0000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-06 19:21 +0000
                Re: CMS, Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-04-06 21:25 +0100
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-31 02:32 +0000
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-31 04:06 +0100
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-03-31 08:52 +0100
        Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-31 18:07 +0100
  Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 13:51 -0700
    Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 00:58 +0000
      Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-31 07:35 -0700
        Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-31 14:54 +0000
          Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-31 13:01 -0700
      Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 22:14 +0000
        Re: TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-31 22:32 +0000
        Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-01 02:06 +0000
          Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-04-01 09:53 +0000
            Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 16:07 +0000
              Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-04-01 16:27 +0000
            Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-01 16:10 +0000
            Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-01 17:15 +0100
              Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-04-01 16:28 +0000
                Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-01 16:48 +0000
                Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-01 17:44 +0000
                Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-01 14:21 -0700
              Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-01 20:40 +0000
                Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-01 22:02 +0000
              Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-02 15:28 +0100
                Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-02 15:36 +0000
                Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-02 17:15 +0100
                Re: linkers, TSS arcana, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 16:44 +0000
  Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:30 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-03-30 23:28 +0100
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 23:36 +0000
        Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-31 07:46 -0700
          Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-31 15:54 +0100
          Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 19:03 +0000
      Re: VM history, was Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 01:04 +0000
        Re: VM history, was Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 22:17 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 15:36 -0700
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 22:19 +0000

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