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Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

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  Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-05 13:22 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted D <noreply@dirge.harmsk.com> - 2025-06-05 08:53 -0400
    Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-06-05 11:32 -0400
    Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-06-05 17:24 +0100
      Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-05 17:49 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-06-05 18:50 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-05 21:08 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-05 21:12 +0100
              Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-06-06 00:48 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2025-06-06 11:27 +0200
            Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-06-06 07:49 -0400
              Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-06 13:01 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-06-06 14:33 +0100
            Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-09 15:09 +0100
              Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-09 16:46 +0100
              Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2025-06-11 16:32 +0200
                Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-12 19:47 +0100
                  Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-06-15 18:03 +0100
                    Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-15 18:11 +0100
                      Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-06-18 16:43 +0100
                    Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-15 21:24 +0100
                      Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-06-18 16:50 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-05 17:44 +0100
      Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-05 21:11 +0100

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#16853 — Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

I have Thunderbird installed on a Windows 10 computer. The present 
version is 139.

For a long time, it has got into a state after reading newsgroups for a 
while where it hangs when I try to post to a newsgroup (any group, not 
specifically one group), and then does not see new postings either, as 
if contact with the server has been lost, although there are no error 
messages displayed.

If I save a stalled outgoing posting in the Drafts folder, and close and 
restart Thunderbird, I can always post the message that was in Drafts. 
But at some stage in the future, the problem will re-occur.

It's happened with two different news servers. One was associated with 
my ISP (Plusnet) and did not require username/password authorisation: it 
accepted anonymous postings as long as the internet connection was from 
the ISP that operated the server. The other is eternal-september and 
needs username/password validation. I know that Plusnet have recently 
stopped operating their news server which is why I've just changed to 
use E-S and hence know that the problem still happens with a different 
server.

Is there any debug logging that I can turn on to gather evidence of why 
it is periodically locking up?

When it happens, email access by POP/SMTP still works fine; it's only 
incoming and outgoing NNTP access that fails without error message.

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#16854

On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:22:56 +0100, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
snip
> The other is eternal-september and 

there're at least a dozen free newservers most that allow posting, but
some servers have better and longer article retention than others, e.g.

 news.blueworldhosting.com
 nntp.csiph.com
 paganini.bofh.team
 freenews.netfront.net

this website links to an extensive list of popular news readers, which
seems to include everything except "xananews" (i prefer 40tude dialog):

(using Tor Browser 14.5.3)
https://maccafe.fr/serveurs_en.html
>A list of free newsreaders:
>Denis (DV) web page
>http://usenet-fr.yakakwatik.org/newsreaders.html
>1.Introduction
>2.Newsreaders
>   40Tude Dialog (Windows)
>   Betterbird (Linux / Windows / macOS)
>   Claws-Mail (Linux / Windows / macOS)
>   Evolution (Linux)
>   flnews (Linux, UNIX systems)
>   Gnus (Linux / Windows / macOS)
>   Gravity (Windows)
>   MacCafe (macOS)
>   MacSOUP (macOS = 10.14)
>   MesNews (Windows)
>   ModNewsreader (Android and its forks)
>   Pan (Linux)
>   SeaMonkey (Linux / Windows / macOS)
>   slrn (Linux / Windows / macOS)
>   Sylpheed (Linux / Windows / macOS)
>   Thunderbird (Linux / Windows / macOS)
>   tin (Linux / Windows / macOS)
>   Xnews (Windows)
>3.References and useful links
[end quote]

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#16855

On Thu, 6/5/2025 8:22 AM, NY wrote:
> I have Thunderbird installed on a Windows 10 computer. The present version is 139.
> 
> For a long time, it has got into a state after reading newsgroups for a while where it hangs when I try to post to a newsgroup (any group, not specifically one group), and then does not see new postings either, as if contact with the server has been lost, although there are no error messages displayed.
> 
> If I save a stalled outgoing posting in the Drafts folder, and close and restart Thunderbird, I can always post the message that was in Drafts. But at some stage in the future, the problem will re-occur.
> 
> It's happened with two different news servers. One was associated with my ISP (Plusnet) and did not require username/password authorisation: it accepted anonymous postings as long as the internet connection was from the ISP that operated the server. The other is eternal-september and needs username/password validation. I know that Plusnet have recently stopped operating their news server which is why I've just changed to use E-S and hence know that the problem still happens with a different server.
> 
> Is there any debug logging that I can turn on to gather evidence of why it is periodically locking up?
> 
> When it happens, email access by POP/SMTP still works fine; it's only incoming and outgoing NNTP access that fails without error message.

Connect on Port 119 and use Wireshark to record the attempt to POST ?

Wireshark has "dissectors" and if there is one for NNTP, you
can make a bit of a summary of the packets. The purpose of
Port 119, is to avoid TLS and unreadable packets.

I doubt there is much to see. In some cases, you might see an
attempt to POST, and the process seems hung and everyone at
either end is sitting on their thumbs.

Unless it throws a visible error, there might not be much in
the way of debug info to go on.

If you were posting with a Microsoft tool, the NNTP server
might have a three digit code (say "211") and Microsoft
would convert that to one of their hex code 0x80070023
and then you had the task of first translating the Microsoft
code, then guessing what possible response in NNTP causes
that to happen. On clients that more directly report the
NNTP error, you have something to work with.

But on a failed POST, there isn't always a nice error
code, and sometimes it just hangs. And that is not a lot
to go on. You would see the same thing in Wireshark, you see
a last packet, and then everything stops. And the client itself
may not be well-designed enough, to have a timer and report
a timeout.

Maybe Thunderbird is stopping in the middle of uploading
the body of the message to be POSTed. In which case, only
your knowledge of the actual message content, would help
you notice that the message isn't getting completely sent
(a packet missing at the end perhaps).

*******

You might check the max_connections setting in Config Editor
for the server in question. I usually set mine to 2, and
the default for Thunderbird new accounts might be 4. If one connection
were to hang while attempting to POST, having a second connection
would allow it to continue for a while. Until you made
a second attempt to POST, and both connections were
jammed up :-)

   user_pref("mail.server.server2.max_cached_connections", 2);

If I have five servers, then I have five max_connection settings.
as each server can be set for a different maximum. The server
has its own limit, but by adjusting the local limit, the
lowest of the two limitations, determine how many
connections a session can use at once. For example, when
updating unread messages using the overview database,
Thunderbird can be downloading headers for two groups
at the same time. The server operator limits connections,
because each connection record uses up server RAM and
limits how many customers can work simultaneously.
Maybe a giganews could support 20 connections or so.

   Paul

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#16856

On 05/06/2025 13:22, NY wrote:
> I have Thunderbird installed on a Windows 10 computer. The present 
> version is 139.
> 
> For a long time, it has got into a state after reading newsgroups for a 
> while where it hangs when I try to post to a newsgroup (any group, not 
> specifically one group), and then does not see new postings either, as 
> if contact with the server has been lost, although there are no error 
> messages displayed.
> 
> If I save a stalled outgoing posting in the Drafts folder, and close and 
> restart Thunderbird, I can always post the message that was in Drafts. 
> But at some stage in the future, the problem will re-occur.
> 
> It's happened with two different news servers. One was associated with 
> my ISP (Plusnet) and did not require username/password authorisation: it 
> accepted anonymous postings as long as the internet connection was from 
> the ISP that operated the server. The other is eternal-september and 
> needs username/password validation. I know that Plusnet have recently 
> stopped operating their news server which is why I've just changed to 
> use E-S and hence know that the problem still happens with a different 
> server.
> 
> Is there any debug logging that I can turn on to gather evidence of why 
> it is periodically locking up?
> 
> When it happens, email access by POP/SMTP still works fine; it's only 
> incoming and outgoing NNTP access that fails without error message.

I think I have the same problem with Thunderbird and news servers.

It seems like perhaps the connection times out (probably at the server 
end) and Thunderbird takes ages to realise and re-connect.

I definitely had the same problem well before V139 came out, though 
maybe not so bad.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#16858

Brian Gregory wrote:

> It seems like perhaps the connection times out (probably at the server 
> end) and Thunderbird takes ages to realise and re-connect.

Sounds exactly like 'my' problem, it knows it had a connection so 
assumes it still has a connection ...
> I definitely had the same problem well before V139 came out, though 
> maybe not so bad.
problem started after the introduction of the jscript implementation of 
nntp client, for some time you could disable the jscript version and use 
the old c++ implementation, then the fallback option got disabled.

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#16859

On 05/06/2025 17:49, Andy Burns wrote:
> Brian Gregory wrote:
> 
>> It seems like perhaps the connection times out (probably at the server 
>> end) and Thunderbird takes ages to realise and re-connect.
> 
> Sounds exactly like 'my' problem, it knows it had a connection so 
> assumes it still has a connection ...
>> I definitely had the same problem well before V139 came out, though 
>> maybe not so bad.
> problem started after the introduction of the jscript implementation of 
> nntp client, for some time you could disable the jscript version and use 
> the old c++ implementation, then the fallback option got disabled.

Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and 
then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic download 
of message headers.

I'm going to experiment.

Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#16860

On 05/06/2025 18:50, Brian Gregory wrote:
> Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and 
> then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
> This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic download 
> of message headers.
> 
> I'm going to experiment.
> 
> Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
> https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png

I've set my TV like that and I'll see what effect it has over the next 
few days.

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#16862

On 05/06/2025 21:08, NY wrote:
> On 05/06/2025 18:50, Brian Gregory wrote:
>> Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and 
>> then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
>> This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic download 
>> of message headers.
>>
>> I'm going to experiment.
>>
>> Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
>> https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png
> 
> I've set my TV like that and I'll see what effect it has over the next 
> few days.

I mean TB - Thunderbird. Typo!

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#16863

On 05/06/2025 21:12, NY wrote:
> On 05/06/2025 21:08, NY wrote:
>> On 05/06/2025 18:50, Brian Gregory wrote:
>>> Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and 
>>> then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
>>> This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic 
>>> download of message headers.
>>>
>>> I'm going to experiment.
>>>
>>> Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
>>> https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png
>>
>> I've set my TV like that and I'll see what effect it has over the next 
>> few days.
> 
> I mean TB - Thunderbird. Typo!

The 5 mins is just my first try, maybe a longer time would do it just as 
well, maybe it needs to be shorter, maybe it won't work at all.

So far it seems hopeful though. No weird lack of response from TB yet here.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#16866

On 05/06/2025 19:50, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 05/06/2025 17:49, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Brian Gregory wrote:
>>
>>> It seems like perhaps the connection times out (probably at the
>>> server end) and Thunderbird takes ages to realise and re-connect.
>>
>> Sounds exactly like 'my' problem, it knows it had a connection so
>> assumes it still has a connection ...
>>> I definitely had the same problem well before V139 came out, though
>>> maybe not so bad.
>> problem started after the introduction of the jscript implementation
>> of nntp client, for some time you could disable the jscript version
>> and use the old c++ implementation, then the fallback option got
>> disabled.
> 
> Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and
> then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
> This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic download
> of message headers.
> 
> I'm going to experiment.
> 
> Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
> https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png
> 

I've had the problem of connection to the usenet server for quite a long
time - well before the latest version of TB 139.

Good luck with your experimentation - but my prediction is it will not
work.(It has not worked for me.)

I posted the connectivity  problem here before, without any joy.

Here are some bits of advice:

1- Unless you are very skilled with Wireshark, Paul's advice is going to
lead you down a black hole.

2- It puzzles me that the OP does not receive any error messages. I
have, and continue to do so. "SEND ERROR MESSAGE: Sending of the message
failed. The message could not be posted because connecting to the news
server failed" and later  "Connection to News.Individual.net was reset"
or  "Connection to news.eternal-september.org was reset"

3. I do NOT need to restart TB to get the connection working. Just
having a second (or third) try. This is why I normally save an unsent
(failed) message to my Draft folder. If 'send' fails, I have another go.
It normally goes on the 2nd or 3d attempt.

4. I have had this failure mode for over a year. There were no bug
reports that I could find on the TB bug report site. (I have not checked
for a long while.)

Thanks for trying to resolve this. A fresh pair of eyes (yours and
poster NYs) may yield better results.

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#16867

On Fri, 6/6/2025 5:27 AM, occam wrote:
> On 05/06/2025 19:50, Brian Gregory wrote:
>> On 05/06/2025 17:49, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Brian Gregory wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems like perhaps the connection times out (probably at the
>>>> server end) and Thunderbird takes ages to realise and re-connect.
>>>
>>> Sounds exactly like 'my' problem, it knows it had a connection so
>>> assumes it still has a connection ...
>>>> I definitely had the same problem well before V139 came out, though
>>>> maybe not so bad.
>>> problem started after the introduction of the jscript implementation
>>> of nntp client, for some time you could disable the jscript version
>>> and use the old c++ implementation, then the fallback option got
>>> disabled.
>>
>> Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and
>> then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
>> This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic download
>> of message headers.
>>
>> I'm going to experiment.
>>
>> Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
>> https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png
>>
> 
> I've had the problem of connection to the usenet server for quite a long
> time - well before the latest version of TB 139.
> 
> Good luck with your experimentation - but my prediction is it will not
> work.(It has not worked for me.)
> 
> I posted the connectivity  problem here before, without any joy.
> 
> Here are some bits of advice:
> 
> 1- Unless you are very skilled with Wireshark, Paul's advice is going to
> lead you down a black hole.
> 
> 2- It puzzles me that the OP does not receive any error messages. I
> have, and continue to do so. "SEND ERROR MESSAGE: Sending of the message
> failed. The message could not be posted because connecting to the news
> server failed" and later  "Connection to News.Individual.net was reset"
> or  "Connection to news.eternal-september.org was reset"
> 
> 3. I do NOT need to restart TB to get the connection working. Just
> having a second (or third) try. This is why I normally save an unsent
> (failed) message to my Draft folder. If 'send' fails, I have another go.
> It normally goes on the 2nd or 3d attempt.
> 
> 4. I have had this failure mode for over a year. There were no bug
> reports that I could find on the TB bug report site. (I have not checked
> for a long while.)
> 
> Thanks for trying to resolve this. A fresh pair of eyes (yours and
> poster NYs) may yield better results.

In the case of E-S, some of the details have changed over time. At one
time, E-S was using short-holding-time connections. Thunderbird opens
new connections when it finds the old connection closed. There was some
chatter recently, about E-S using long-holding-time connections (like
in the old days). One reason this can be done, is if the user population
using the server is small enough, there is no longer a reason to
conserve server resources.

Whether changes like this affect Thunderbird, I don't know. It should not
have an effect. But who knows.

If something freezes on a PC, there is no particular reason any debug
tool can make progress on that. Things that continue to run, and throw
errors, or have behaviors, those are things we might be able to debug.
There could be a task deadlock in TB. and maybe it is only certain
versions that suffer from it.

The timeout time for a TCP/IP connector, seems to be a couple minutes.
You can use TCPView, and watch the states a connection goes through,
to see those couple minutes go by.

And Wireshark is very good for debugging servers. You might find
a difference between a Diablo server and an INN server, what commands
Thunderbird issues to each, and what issues the responses make to your
session. These could be things you were not aware of, without looking
for those details. for example, I noticed the last time I looked,
the XOver packet that defines what fields are in the headers
that come in, that was missing. I don't know how it can function
without that. The client should be asking for that info.

   Paul

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#16868

On 06/06/2025 12:49, Paul wrote:

> In the case of E-S, some of the details have changed over time. At one
> time, E-S was using short-holding-time connections. Thunderbird opens
> new connections when it finds the old connection closed. There was some
> chatter recently, about E-S using long-holding-time connections (like
> in the old days). One reason this can be done, is if the user population
> using the server is small enough, there is no longer a reason to
> conserve server resources.
> 
> Whether changes like this affect Thunderbird, I don't know. It should not
> have an effect. But who knows.


The patch for the bug I reported is indeed in the code that determines 
whether it has a valid nntp session.

as part of testing v141.0a1, I've got a powershell script that keeps an 
eye on how many nntp sessions have been alive for how long, E-S and NIN 
do seem less likely to kick off idle sessions than Giganews, but I've 
lost access to that.



PS C:\> & netstat -bin | select-string ':119' -context 0,1

 > TCP    192.168.1.19:38254     135.181.20.170:119     ESTABLISHED 
   3099795
    [thunderbird.exe]
 > TCP    192.168.1.19:38255     135.181.20.170:119     ESTABLISHED 
   3099794
    [thunderbird.exe]
 > TCP    192.168.1.19:38274     130.133.4.11:119       ESTABLISHED 
   3080649
    [thunderbird.exe]
 > TCP    192.168.1.19:38275     130.133.4.11:119       ESTABLISHED 
   3080634
    [thunderbird.exe]

  > If something freezes on a PC, there is no particular reason any debug
> tool can make progress on that. Things that continue to run, and throw
> errors, or have behaviors, those are things we might be able to debug.
> There could be a task deadlock in TB. and maybe it is only certain
> versions that suffer from it.
You could see the client and server having a small war, one got a 
response it didn't like so made a new connection, but then immediately 
dropped it, rinse and repeat.

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#16870

"occam" <occam@nowhere.nix> wrote in message 
news:mafqkiFouahU1@mid.individual.nt's et...
> 2- It puzzles me that the OP does not receive any error messages. I
> have, and continue to do so. "SEND ERROR MESSAGE: Sending of the message
> failed. The message could not be posted because connecting to the news
> server failed" and later  "Connection to News.Individual.net was reset"
> or  "Connection to news.eternal-september.org was reset"

Yes, it's odd that TB doesn't give an error message; it just pauses 
indefinitely at a "sending" dialog.

> 3. I do NOT need to restart TB to get the connection working. Just
> having a second (or third) try. This is why I normally save an unsent
> (failed) message to my Draft folder. If 'send' fails, I have another go.
> It normally goes on the 2nd or 3d attempt.

Once TB has got into the state, it fails again and again to send the 
message, and also fails to update the lists of postings in all newsgroups. 
It's as if the connection to the news server has dropped both for reading 
and writing. Up to now, the only remedy is to stop TB (maybe needing to kill 
its process in Task Manager) and start it again. However I now know about 
the "work offline" toggle, so I'll try that first.

> 4. I have had this failure mode for over a year. There were no bug
> reports that I could find on the TB bug report site. (I have not checked
> for a long while.)

I'm glad I'm not the only one. When I first experienced it a year or so ago, 
no-one else had experienced it. I had that terrible "I'm the only one" 
experience. (*)

> Thanks for trying to resolve this. A fresh pair of eyes (yours and
> poster NYs) may yield better results.



(*) Like with VLC video player. Some time after V2.1, it would freeze the 
video but play the sound if I paused and then resumed the video a couple of 
times. That's when playing .ts files in MPEG-2 (UK SD TV) or H264 (UK HD TV) 
format. V2.1 and older did not do this. But after asking on the VLC forum, I 
get the impression that no-one else in the world has experienced it, even 
though I can reproduce it on Win 7, Win 10 and Linux (eg Cinnamon Mint or 
MX) on three different PCs (so different graphics cards etc). When I 
reported it on a VLC support forum, I was made to feel like an idiot for 
mentioning it because "I'm the only one". Someone even said "if you pause 
and resume videos repeatedly, of course it will fail. TS format is not 
designed to permit this". 

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#16908 — Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

On 06/06/2025 10:27, occam wrote:
> On 05/06/2025 19:50, Brian Gregory wrote:
>> On 05/06/2025 17:49, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Brian Gregory wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems like perhaps the connection times out (probably at the
>>>> server end) and Thunderbird takes ages to realise and re-connect.
>>>
>>> Sounds exactly like 'my' problem, it knows it had a connection so
>>> assumes it still has a connection ...
>>>> I definitely had the same problem well before V139 came out, though
>>>> maybe not so bad.
>>> problem started after the introduction of the jscript implementation
>>> of nntp client, for some time you could disable the jscript version
>>> and use the old c++ implementation, then the fallback option got
>>> disabled.
>>
>> Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and
>> then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
>> This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic download
>> of message headers.
>>
>> I'm going to experiment.
>>
>> Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
>> https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png
>>
> 
> I've had the problem of connection to the usenet server for quite a long
> time - well before the latest version of TB 139.
> 
> Good luck with your experimentation - but my prediction is it will not
> work.(It has not worked for me.)
> 
> I posted the connectivity  problem here before, without any joy.
> 
> Here are some bits of advice:
> 
> 1- Unless you are very skilled with Wireshark, Paul's advice is going to
> lead you down a black hole.
> 
> 2- It puzzles me that the OP does not receive any error messages. I
> have, and continue to do so. "SEND ERROR MESSAGE: Sending of the message
> failed. The message could not be posted because connecting to the news
> server failed" and later  "Connection to News.Individual.net was reset"
> or  "Connection to news.eternal-september.org was reset"
> 
> 3. I do NOT need to restart TB to get the connection working. Just
> having a second (or third) try. This is why I normally save an unsent
> (failed) message to my Draft folder. If 'send' fails, I have another go.
> It normally goes on the 2nd or 3d attempt.
> 
> 4. I have had this failure mode for over a year. There were no bug
> reports that I could find on the TB bug report site. (I have not checked
> for a long while.)
> 
> Thanks for trying to resolve this. A fresh pair of eyes (yours and
> poster NYs) may yield better results.

Since I turned on "automatic checking every 5 minutes" I've not had a 
recurrence of the problem that I reported. Every posting that I've 
submitted has been sent, without indefinite stalling and no error 
message, and I've never had a situation where a newsgroup shows a number 
of new postings but they refuse to open to be read.

So it does look as if the "automatic connection" as a keepalive seems to 
have solved it for me. It used to work once, then an update (at some 
time in the past) broke it. But at least there is a fix/workaround.

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#16909 — Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

NY wrote:

> So it does look as if the "automatic connection" as a keepalive seems to 
> have solved it for me. It used to work once, then an update (at some 
> time in the past) broke it. But at least there is a fix/workaround.

Equally, the v141 that I'm testing (without configuring automatic 
connection) has solved the problem for me, so we have multiple 
fixes/workarounds :-)

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#16927 — Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

On 09/06/2025 16:09, NY wrote:
> On 06/06/2025 10:27, occam wrote:
>> On 05/06/2025 19:50, Brian Gregory wrote:
>>> On 05/06/2025 17:49, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Brian Gregory wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It seems like perhaps the connection times out (probably at the
>>>>> server end) and Thunderbird takes ages to realise and re-connect.
>>>>
>>>> Sounds exactly like 'my' problem, it knows it had a connection so
>>>> assumes it still has a connection ...
>>>>> I definitely had the same problem well before V139 came out, though
>>>>> maybe not so bad.
>>>> problem started after the introduction of the jscript implementation
>>>> of nntp client, for some time you could disable the jscript version
>>>> and use the old c++ implementation, then the fallback option got
>>>> disabled.
>>>
>>> Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and
>>> then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
>>> This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic download
>>> of message headers.
>>>
>>> I'm going to experiment.
>>>
>>> Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
>>> https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png
>>>
>>
>> I've had the problem of connection to the usenet server for quite a long
>> time - well before the latest version of TB 139.
>>
>> Good luck with your experimentation - but my prediction is it will not
>> work.(It has not worked for me.)
>>
>> I posted the connectivity  problem here before, without any joy.
>>
>> Here are some bits of advice:
>>
>> 1- Unless you are very skilled with Wireshark, Paul's advice is going to
>> lead you down a black hole.
>>
>> 2- It puzzles me that the OP does not receive any error messages. I
>> have, and continue to do so. "SEND ERROR MESSAGE: Sending of the message
>> failed. The message could not be posted because connecting to the news
>> server failed" and later  "Connection to News.Individual.net was reset"
>> or  "Connection to news.eternal-september.org was reset"
>>
>> 3. I do NOT need to restart TB to get the connection working. Just
>> having a second (or third) try. This is why I normally save an unsent
>> (failed) message to my Draft folder. If 'send' fails, I have another go.
>> It normally goes on the 2nd or 3d attempt.
>>
>> 4. I have had this failure mode for over a year. There were no bug
>> reports that I could find on the TB bug report site. (I have not checked
>> for a long while.)
>>
>> Thanks for trying to resolve this. A fresh pair of eyes (yours and
>> poster NYs) may yield better results.
> 
> Since I turned on "automatic checking every 5 minutes" I've not had a
> recurrence of the problem that I reported. Every posting that I've
> submitted has been sent, without indefinite stalling and no error
> message, and I've never had a situation where a newsgroup shows a number
> of new postings but they refuse to open to be read.
> 
> So it does look as if the "automatic connection" as a keepalive seems to
> have solved it for me. It used to work once, then an update (at some
> time in the past) broke it. But at least there is a fix/workaround.

I am wondering if you have had time to re-evaluate your solution since.
I did the same (i.e. I turned on "automatic checking every 10 minutes")
but the problem persists.

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#16952 — Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

On 11/06/2025 15:32, occam wrote:
> On 09/06/2025 16:09, NY wrote:
>> So it does look as if the "automatic connection" as a keepalive seems to
>> have solved it for me. It used to work once, then an update (at some
>> time in the past) broke it. But at least there is a fix/workaround.
> 
> I am wondering if you have had time to re-evaluate your solution since.
> I did the same (i.e. I turned on "automatic checking every 10 minutes")
> but the problem persists.

I've been using Thunderbird as I did before when I had the problem. 
Typically it stays running (but minimised) for a lot of the day, with 
periods when I read new messages and reply to a few. Laptop is usually 
in sleep mode  (close the lid, not an explicit sleep from the power 
menu) when I'm not using it for a while but with Thunderbird app still 
running.

Previously I'd find that after a period of inactivity I'd be able to 
download new messages (initiated manually before the change to auto-scan 
every 5 mins). I'd prepare a posting (new or reply), press Send and see 
the "Sending" dialog box displayed indefinitely. Once it has got into 
that state, resending up to five times never worked, and scanning for 
further new incoming postings found nothing new - but not explicit 
failure / timeout message. The only remedy that I found was killing the 
thunderbird process and restarting.

Now with auto-scan, I've not had any failures to send or to receive 
after several days' typical usage as described above.

There was the added factor that a few days before the auto-scan change, 
I changed from news.plus.net to news.eternal-september.org, but I 
definitely had some failures after the change of news server and before 
the auto-scan change. So there was a clear distinction between changing 
two different things ;-)

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#16977 — Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

On 2025/6/12 19:47:49, NY wrote:
[]
> There was the added factor that a few days before the auto-scan change, 
> I changed from news.plus.net to news.eternal-september.org, but I 
> definitely had some failures after the change of news server and before 
> the auto-scan change. So there was a clear distinction between changing 
> two different things ;-)

Before they turned it off altogether, I had the feeling that the PlusNet 
news server (really a relay of someone else's - Giganews was it?) was 
decidedly flaky/ropey, though that _could_ have just been my new 
unfamiliarity with Thunderbird. (If you've had _some_ failures _after_ 
changing, then it probably _wasn't_ PN to blame.)

Talking of my unfamiliarity with TB: I'm still hazy about what TB holds 
locally (or downloads in the first place), especially for news. (I'd 
previously used Turnpike, which holds everything, locally, if you mark a 
post not to expire.) I have some posts in 'groups under the PN server 
which I'd starred, which indeed are still shown in the list [as I'd 
expect from starring them], but when I actually try to look at them, I 
see blank. I must have actually seen the bodies at some time (so they 
must have been downloaded) for me to decide to star them.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf


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#16979 — Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

J. P. Gilliver wrote:

> I'm still hazy about what TB holds locally (or downloads in the first 
> place), especially for news.

You can control the retention settings per group, by right-clicking and 
going into Properties

> I have some 
> posts in 'groups under the PN server which I'd starred, which indeed are 
> still shown in the list
Don't trust starring to keep them long-term, some actions such as 
repairing a group will delete stuff, keep an archive folder in local 
folders.

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#17038 — Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

On 2025/6/15 18:11:53, Andy Burns wrote:
> J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> 
>> I'm still hazy about what TB holds locally (or downloads in the first 
>> place), especially for news.
> 
> You can control the retention settings per group, by right-clicking and 
> going into Properties

That doesn't explain why I still have, when I look in groups under the 
now-defunct PlusNet server, I see some postings listed (probably only 
ones I'd starred by now), but when I click on them, the message pane 
shows blank (very blank - not even subject or poster).[]
> Don't trust starring to keep them long-term, some actions such as 
> repairing a group will delete stuff, keep an archive folder in local 
> folders.
Thanks for the warning. When you say an archive folder, is that like a 
newsgroup, to which I drag postings? Or entire newsgroups? Or what?
And is the "repair" deletion just an expiry (i. e. could I change a 
'group to "never delete" before running a repair,  and back afterwards), 
or something else? (When would I do a "repair" anyway?)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf


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