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Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted

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On Fri, 6/6/2025 5:27 AM, occam wrote:
> On 05/06/2025 19:50, Brian Gregory wrote:
>> On 05/06/2025 17:49, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Brian Gregory wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems like perhaps the connection times out (probably at the
>>>> server end) and Thunderbird takes ages to realise and re-connect.
>>>
>>> Sounds exactly like 'my' problem, it knows it had a connection so
>>> assumes it still has a connection ...
>>>> I definitely had the same problem well before V139 came out, though
>>>> maybe not so bad.
>>> problem started after the introduction of the jscript implementation
>>> of nntp client, for some time you could disable the jscript version
>>> and use the old c++ implementation, then the fallback option got
>>> disabled.
>>
>> Maybe configuring Thunderbird to check for new messages every now and
>> then would be enough to act as a kind of keep-alive for the connections?
>> This may not suit everyone though, you may not want automatic download
>> of message headers.
>>
>> I'm going to experiment.
>>
>> Screenshot of settings I'm testing first:
>> https://www.brian-gregory.me.uk/GDL/ThunderbirdKeepAliveTest-or8.png
>>
> 
> I've had the problem of connection to the usenet server for quite a long
> time - well before the latest version of TB 139.
> 
> Good luck with your experimentation - but my prediction is it will not
> work.(It has not worked for me.)
> 
> I posted the connectivity  problem here before, without any joy.
> 
> Here are some bits of advice:
> 
> 1- Unless you are very skilled with Wireshark, Paul's advice is going to
> lead you down a black hole.
> 
> 2- It puzzles me that the OP does not receive any error messages. I
> have, and continue to do so. "SEND ERROR MESSAGE: Sending of the message
> failed. The message could not be posted because connecting to the news
> server failed" and later  "Connection to News.Individual.net was reset"
> or  "Connection to news.eternal-september.org was reset"
> 
> 3. I do NOT need to restart TB to get the connection working. Just
> having a second (or third) try. This is why I normally save an unsent
> (failed) message to my Draft folder. If 'send' fails, I have another go.
> It normally goes on the 2nd or 3d attempt.
> 
> 4. I have had this failure mode for over a year. There were no bug
> reports that I could find on the TB bug report site. (I have not checked
> for a long while.)
> 
> Thanks for trying to resolve this. A fresh pair of eyes (yours and
> poster NYs) may yield better results.

In the case of E-S, some of the details have changed over time. At one
time, E-S was using short-holding-time connections. Thunderbird opens
new connections when it finds the old connection closed. There was some
chatter recently, about E-S using long-holding-time connections (like
in the old days). One reason this can be done, is if the user population
using the server is small enough, there is no longer a reason to
conserve server resources.

Whether changes like this affect Thunderbird, I don't know. It should not
have an effect. But who knows.

If something freezes on a PC, there is no particular reason any debug
tool can make progress on that. Things that continue to run, and throw
errors, or have behaviors, those are things we might be able to debug.
There could be a task deadlock in TB. and maybe it is only certain
versions that suffer from it.

The timeout time for a TCP/IP connector, seems to be a couple minutes.
You can use TCPView, and watch the states a connection goes through,
to see those couple minutes go by.

And Wireshark is very good for debugging servers. You might find
a difference between a Diablo server and an INN server, what commands
Thunderbird issues to each, and what issues the responses make to your
session. These could be things you were not aware of, without looking
for those details. for example, I noticed the last time I looked,
the XOver packet that defines what fields are in the headers
that come in, that was missing. I don't know how it can function
without that. The client should be asking for that info.

   Paul

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Thread

Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-05 13:22 +0100
  Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted D <noreply@dirge.harmsk.com> - 2025-06-05 08:53 -0400
  Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-06-05 11:32 -0400
  Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-06-05 17:24 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-05 17:49 +0100
      Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-06-05 18:50 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-05 21:08 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-05 21:12 +0100
            Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-06-06 00:48 +0100
        Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2025-06-06 11:27 +0200
          Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-06-06 07:49 -0400
            Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-06 13:01 +0100
          Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-06-06 14:33 +0100
          Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-09 15:09 +0100
            Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-09 16:46 +0100
            Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2025-06-11 16:32 +0200
              Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-12 19:47 +0100
                Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-06-15 18:03 +0100
                Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-15 18:11 +0100
                Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-06-18 16:43 +0100
                Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-15 21:24 +0100
                Re: Followup - Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-06-18 16:50 +0100
  Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-06-05 17:44 +0100
    Re: Thunderbird V139 loses contact with newsgroup server - cannot send or receive postings until TB is restarted NY <me@privacy.net> - 2025-06-05 21:11 +0100

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