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Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account

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  Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Boris <nospam@invalid.com> - 2025-01-16 01:06 +0000
    Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account "J. Weaver Jr." <jwjr@poREMOVETHISbox.com> - 2025-01-15 20:44 -0500
      Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2025-01-16 02:02 +0000
        Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 22:16 -0700
          Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Boris <nospam@invalid.com> - 2025-01-16 06:08 +0000
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-16 11:05 -0700
    Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-15 23:04 -0500
      Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-01-16 10:36 +0000
        Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-16 13:08 -0500
          Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-01-17 13:16 +0000
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-17 16:13 +0000
              Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-17 11:56 -0500
    Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-15 23:08 -0500
      Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-15 23:13 -0500
        Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-16 09:19 -0500
          Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-16 11:13 -0500
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-16 13:14 -0500
              Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-01-17 13:49 +0000
                Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-17 12:07 -0500
    Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Boris <nospam@invalid.com> - 2025-01-16 04:20 +0000
      Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-16 09:50 -0500
    Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 21:45 -0700
      Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-16 12:52 +0000
        Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-01-17 05:01 +0000
        Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-19 14:52 -0500
          Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-19 15:24 -0500
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-19 21:39 +0000
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-19 16:59 -0500
              Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-19 17:16 -0500
                Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-19 19:54 -0500
          Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-19 21:44 +0000
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-19 17:05 -0500
              Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-19 22:13 +0000
              Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-20 13:44 +0100
                Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-20 13:31 +0000
                Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-20 08:59 -0500
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-20 11:34 +0000
              Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-20 12:07 +0000
                Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-20 09:20 -0500
                Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-20 13:16 -0700
              Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-20 12:29 -0700
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Daniel70 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2025-01-30 20:23 +1100
        Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend] Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-20 15:15 +0000
      Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-17 15:17 +0100
        Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-18 10:22 -0700
          Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-01-18 21:05 +0100
            Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 12:32 -0700
    Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-01-16 09:11 +0000
    Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-01-16 17:26 +0100

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#16342

On Wed, 1/15/2025 11:20 PM, Boris wrote:
> Boris <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in news:vm9m3c$36gm7$1@dont-email.me:
> 
>> Windows 11 Home, OEM installed on a Dell XPS 8950
>>
>> When originally set up in September 2023, I was able to circumvent the 
>> Microsoft email account requirement by entering "no@thanks.com", when
>> asked for a Microsoft account.  It worked.  I've never had a Microsoft
>> account and don't want one.
>>
>> Today I had to use Dell's Support Assist OS Recovery software to
>> reinstall Windows 11.  (The machine would not boot after an update.)  I
>> set it to save my personal data.
>>
>> Of course, I'm back at being asked for a Microsoft account email, which
>> I don't have.  I guess I could create an account, but I seem to remember
>> that if Microsoft sets up the machine, the user's default folder will be
>> assigned a cumbersome alpha-numeric-special character name, which can't
>> be renamed.  Am I remembering correctly?
>>
>> I'm searching for a remedy.  Does anyone know what the latest
>> work-around is? 
>>
>> TIA
> 
> Well, flushing ipconfig, as described here, worked:
> https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-
> ac
> count 
> 
> Now I have to do a "Retrieve files" from the backup folders that Dell
> SupportAssist OS Recovery Assistant made to my external USB Western
> Digital MyPassport drive.  Those folders are: Desktop, Documents,
> Downloads, Music, Pictures, and Videos. 
> 
> Selected files: 136.41 GB
> Destination:  400.35 GB
> 
> File is "D:\SupportAssist_Backups\2025-01-14_22.30.39\archive.zip"
> 
> Hmmm...backup destination was originally E:, not D: 
> guess a drive name was deleted
> 
> It took 10 hours to move the folders out to the backup drive.  I wonder
> how long it will take to retrieve them. 
> 

Cheer up. Decompression can run faster :-)

That's a bit slow, but who is counting.

There is, naturally, data other places on C: , and transferring
just the "official" places is a bit dangerous. For example, would
that archive have your email folder, your Firefox bookmarks, and
so on ? You really have to be careful with this sort of automation.
It might not be all that clever.

   Paul

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#16331

Boris wrote on 1/15/25 6:06 PM:
> Windows 11 Home, OEM installed on a Dell XPS 8950
> 
> When originally set up in September 2023, I was able to circumvent the
> Microsoft email account requirement by entering "no@thanks.com", when asked
> for a Microsoft account.  It worked.  I've never had a Microsoft account and
> don't want one.
> 
> Today I had to use Dell's Support Assist OS Recovery software to reinstall
> Windows 11.  (The machine would not boot after an update.)  I set it to save
> my personal data.
> 
> Of course, I'm back at being asked for a Microsoft account email, which I
> don't have.  I guess I could create an account, but I seem to remember that
> if Microsoft sets up the machine, the user's default folder will be assigned
> a cumbersome alpha-numeric-special character name, which can't be renamed.
> Am I remembering correctly?
> 
> I'm searching for a remedy.  Does anyone know what the latest work-around is?
> 
> TIA
> 
The easiest remedy.
Set up the device with a MSFT account(write down the password, if desired 
create a PIN when prompted)
Use that MSFT account after logon to create a Local Account
Use that MSFT account to change the Local Account to an Admin account
Logoff the MSFT account
Logon with Local account
Use the Local account to remove the MSFT account from Windows

Once done
  - use the Local Account to install all software and setup Windows to 
your liking.

Note: If you plan on using any version of MSFT Office 2016 or later, you 
will still need a MSFT account)...that MSFT account does not have to be a 
Windows logon/sign-in account, but it will be needed for activation and 
use of Office programs.


-- 
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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#16338 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

[original message doesn't appear to have sent properly]

...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:

> If you plan on using any version of MSFT Office 2016 or later, you will 
> still need a MSFT account)...that MSFT account does not have to be a 
> Windows logon/sign-in account, but it will be needed for activation and 
> use of Office programs.

I never want an MSA for signing-in, fair enough I can avoid that, but it 
annoys me when certain Win11 features require an MSA for no apparent 
reason, e.g the PhoneLink app.

I try to use TOTP based authenticator as far as possible, but a handful 
of services are stuck using SMS to authenticate, so the ability to copy 
codes from phone and paste to browser on PC is sometimes handy

I can do that using 'Google Messages for Web' and linking via a QR code, 
but overall it's barely more convenient than retyping the codes by hand.

Does anyone use the PhoneLink app?   Does it work using an "auxilliary" 
MSA?  Does it automatically connect when in bluetooth range?

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#16357 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 12:52:43 +0000, Andy Burns wrote :


>  the ability to copy 
> codes from phone and paste to browser on PC is sometimes handy
> 
> I can do that using 'Google Messages for Web' and linking via a QR code, 
> but overall it's barely more convenient than retyping the codes by hand.

This may not be what you want, but for all to benefit, what I do all day
every day, is my phone is mirrored onto my PC screen such that I operate
the phone via the PC (i.e., the mouse, keyboard, clipboard, speaker, etc.).

Whether via USB or over the Wi-Fi LAN, anything I copy on Windows I can
paste to the phone and vice versa, which is how I do some verifications.

It's so easy to mirror phones that I'm surprised more people don't do it.
For Android, I use "scrcpy" (screen copy) FOSS software.
 <https://scrcpy.org/>

For iOS, I use Vysor freeware (which also works for Android). 
 <https://www.vysor.io/>

With those two programs, what you copy on the phone can be pasted to the PC
and what you copy on the PC can be pasted to the phone. It's seamless.

But I know you knew that, so this is mostly for the others who read this.

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#16408 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On 1/16/2025 7:52 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> I never want an MSA for signing-in, fair enough I can avoid that, but it 
> annoys me when certain Win11 features require an MSA for no apparent 
> reason, e.g the PhoneLink app.
> 

    I expect that's only going to get worse. Windows As a Service.
Isn't a Microsoft Account the same as a Windows Store account?
So you need to be prepared to sidestep the increasing number of
cowpies. The clever thing with making you sign up for PhoneLink
is that you're apparently connecting through their server, so you
have to give them access to your computer AND your cellphone,
linking both to your MS ID.

     And don't think that you have privacy simply by not
signing up. You have the advantage of not directly, voluntarily
linking your ID to your computer and cellphone in MS records, but
the number of processes calling home on Win10/11 is astonishing. If
you don't block them with a firewall then Win10/11 is reporting most
of what you do. And that's not counting the 3rd-party programs trying
to call home.

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#16409 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On Sun, 1/19/2025 2:52 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 1/16/2025 7:52 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>> I never want an MSA for signing-in, fair enough I can avoid that, but it annoys me when certain Win11 features require an MSA for no apparent reason, e.g the PhoneLink app.
>>
> 
>    I expect that's only going to get worse. Windows As a Service.
> Isn't a Microsoft Account the same as a Windows Store account?
> So you need to be prepared to sidestep the increasing number of
> cowpies. The clever thing with making you sign up for PhoneLink
> is that you're apparently connecting through their server, so you
> have to give them access to your computer AND your cellphone,
> linking both to your MS ID.
> 
>     And don't think that you have privacy simply by not
> signing up. You have the advantage of not directly, voluntarily
> linking your ID to your computer and cellphone in MS records, but
> the number of processes calling home on Win10/11 is astonishing. If
> you don't block them with a firewall then Win10/11 is reporting most
> of what you do. And that's not counting the 3rd-party programs trying
> to call home.

I'm not sure that everything from the Microsoft Store needs an MSA.

If there are any sort of Digital Rights Management issues for
the product ("licensed for use on one machine and one account"), then
chances are it could profitably use an MSA to track the license details
of that product.

If you're downloading Ubuntu for the Bash Shell from the Microsoft Store,
that is a FOSS and it's usage is not tracked like a paid product might be.

I'm pretty sure I've pulled a Ubuntu from the Microsoft Store for a
Windows installation where my account is Bullwinkle (local account).

You don't need a credit card to enter the Microsoft Store.
A credit card could be involved for purchases with a price set on them.

And logically at least, you might need the MSA for materials
where the scope of the license is more narrow than the Ubuntu image download.

   Paul

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#16410 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

Paul wrote:

> I'm not sure that everything from the Microsoft Store needs an MSA.

I've installed many free apps from the MS Store on this Win11Home 
machine, without any account there.  Some of them looked as though they 
were going to require an account, but then got installed without one anyway.

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#16412 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On 1/19/2025 3:24 PM, Paul wrote:

> I'm not sure that everything from the Microsoft Store needs an MSA.
> 

   So one can just go to their website, browse, and download things
like downloading an installer from MajorGeeks? I don't expect I'd want
anything, anyway. I've removed "apps". But I never tried to download
anything. My impression was that one had to log in.

   When I go to the website it's 100% broken with javascript, even
with CSS disabled. So I've never explored it.

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#16416 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On Sun, 1/19/2025 4:59 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 1/19/2025 3:24 PM, Paul wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure that everything from the Microsoft Store needs an MSA.
>>
> 
>   So one can just go to their website, browse, and download things
> like downloading an installer from MajorGeeks? I don't expect I'd want
> anything, anyway. I've removed "apps". But I never tried to download
> anything. My impression was that one had to log in.
> 
>   When I go to the website it's 100% broken with javascript, even
> with CSS disabled. So I've never explored it.
> 

I'm hardly a proponent of a Store. But it's my understanding
that there are multiple types of things on there. They don't
have to be Apps.

Sure, the web page will use Javascript. That's pretty well a given.
I don't think HTML is powerful enough, for the installing and starting
phases of Store transactions. Some Store items, downloading is the
only step, and everything else is up to you.

For example, you can download a package, and use a separate installer
program from Microsoft, to do the installation step.

And this is not the only method either, there are other ways.

   https://superuser.com/questions/1314326/side-load-windows-store-apps-when-windows-store-blocked-by-group-policy

But I never intended to fully explore these options -- there was one thing
I was interested in examining, where I wanted to look at the "materials"
before installing it. And that's why I had to look some stuff up.
Since a lot of materials are protected by signing and manifests,
there isn't much danger of a guy like me actually changing anything.
But if I want an idea of what materials it has on board (materials
I don't want on the machine), then breaking down the install into
steps could be useful.

   Paul

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#16419 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On 1/19/2025 5:16 PM, Paul wrote:
> On Sun, 1/19/2025 4:59 PM, Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 1/19/2025 3:24 PM, Paul wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure that everything from the Microsoft Store needs an MSA.
>>>
>>
>>    So one can just go to their website, browse, and download things
>> like downloading an installer from MajorGeeks? I don't expect I'd want
>> anything, anyway. I've removed "apps". But I never tried to download
>> anything. My impression was that one had to log in.
>>
>>    When I go to the website it's 100% broken with javascript, even
>> with CSS disabled. So I've never explored it.
>>
> 
> I'm hardly a proponent of a Store. But it's my understanding
> that there are multiple types of things on there. They don't
> have to be Apps.
> 
> Sure, the web page will use Javascript. That's pretty well a given.
> I don't think HTML is powerful enough, for the installing and starting
> phases of Store transactions. Some Store items, downloading is the
> only step, and everything else is up to you.
> 
> For example, you can download a package, and use a separate installer
> program from Microsoft, to do the installation step.
> 
> And this is not the only method either, there are other ways.
> 
>     https://superuser.com/questions/1314326/side-load-windows-store-apps-when-windows-store-blocked-by-group-policy
> 
> But I never intended to fully explore these options -- there was one thing
> I was interested in examining, where I wanted to look at the "materials"
> before installing it. And that's why I had to look some stuff up.
> Since a lot of materials are protected by signing and manifests,
> there isn't much danger of a guy like me actually changing anything.
> But if I want an idea of what materials it has on board (materials
> I don't want on the machine), then breaking down the install into
> steps could be useful.
> 

    I've never looked at any of this, nor have I really loooked
into Metro/WinRT/UWP. I have some vague idea that they're
interpreted, sandboxed applets, but aside from that I have
no idea what the files look like or where the API comes from.

  The webpage doesn't just use javascript. It's one of those
pages that says only, "This app requires javascript." In other
words, they're asking the visitor to run obfuscated, jazzed-up,
javascript-based software in the browser. MajorGeeks just
says, "Click here to download". :)

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#16411 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

Newyana2 wrote:

> The clever thing with making you sign up for PhoneLink
> is that you're apparently connecting through their server, so you
> have to give them access to your computer AND your cellphone,
> linking both to your MS ID.
I see if you try to link an iPhone instead of an Android phone, it asks 
you to scan a QR code instead of sign-in with a MSA, not any use to me 
as I don't have an iPhone.

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#16413 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On 1/19/2025 4:44 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Newyana2 wrote:
> 
>> The clever thing with making you sign up for PhoneLink
>> is that you're apparently connecting through their server, so you
>> have to give them access to your computer AND your cellphone,
>> linking both to your MS ID.

> I see if you try to link an iPhone instead of an Android phone, it asks 
> you to scan a QR code instead of sign-in with a MSA, not any use to me 
> as I don't have an iPhone.

     I wonder what the difference is. It's hard to see why
anyone should need to go through a 3rd-party server to
connect phone to PC, anyway.

    I wrote a QR code generator/reader recently. It's actually
not my code. Just a light wrapper around a library called zxing.
An interesting thing I've found is that the codes rarely go to
where one expects. The first sample I found to test was a
QR code for PBS -- US non-profit TV. The codes translated
to a URL of some middleman company that apparently tracks
data and then sends the person on to pbs.org. I'm surprised
that this hasn't led to malware attacks yet.

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#16415 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

Newyana2 wrote:

>     I wrote a QR code generator/reader recently. It's actually
> not my code. Just a light wrapper around a library called zxing.

Before barcodes got baked into Google Lens, I used yo use ZXing on early 
Android phones.

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#16426 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On 2025-01-19 23:05, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 1/19/2025 4:44 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Newyana2 wrote:
>>
>>> The clever thing with making you sign up for PhoneLink
>>> is that you're apparently connecting through their server, so you
>>> have to give them access to your computer AND your cellphone,
>>> linking both to your MS ID.
> 
>> I see if you try to link an iPhone instead of an Android phone, it 
>> asks you to scan a QR code instead of sign-in with a MSA, not any use 
>> to me as I don't have an iPhone.
> 
>      I wonder what the difference is. It's hard to see why
> anyone should need to go through a 3rd-party server to
> connect phone to PC, anyway.
> 
>     I wrote a QR code generator/reader recently. It's actually
> not my code. Just a light wrapper around a library called zxing.
> An interesting thing I've found is that the codes rarely go to
> where one expects. The first sample I found to test was a
> QR code for PBS -- US non-profit TV. The codes translated
> to a URL of some middleman company that apparently tracks
> data and then sends the person on to pbs.org. I'm surprised
> that this hasn't led to malware attacks yet.

You mean that the zxing library created QR codes that actually go to an 
intermediary, instead of the URL you write? That's awful behaviour.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#16427 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

"Carlos E.R." wrote:

> Newyana2 wrote:
>
>> An interesting thing I've found is that the codes rarely go to
>> where one expects. The first sample I found to test was a
>> QR code for PBS -- US non-profit TV. The codes translated
>> to a URL of some middleman company that apparently tracks
>> data and then sends the person on to pbs.org. I'm surprised
>> that this hasn't led to malware attacks yet.
> 
> You mean that the zxing library created QR codes that actually go to an 
> intermediary, instead of the URL you write? That's awful behaviour.

I don't think ZXing itself does that, e.g. the "awful" PBS app generates 
a QR that directs to middleman, who redirects to PBS streaming URL ...

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#16428 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On 1/20/2025 7:44 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> You mean that the zxing library created QR codes that actually go to an 
> intermediary, instead of the URL you write? That's awful behaviour.
> 

   No. zxing creates a QR code for whatever you want. If I feed
it "https://www.somewhere.com" then that's what I get back
when I read it. It simply encodes whatever is fed in.

   The problem is that there's no safety in QR. You can't know
where it will go when you follow it by looking at the grid. And
what I've found is that in many cases (most?) it goes to a
middleman business.

   Are you familiar with the company Constant Contact? They're
a spyware company who sell their services for business email.
They promise to tell you exactly when your email is opened and
how far down the recipient reads. (It doesn't work in a decent
email client, but since so many people use webmail with little
security, CC's web bug implants probably work most of the time.)
The email appears to come from NiceTherapeuticMasseuse.com,
but it's actually routing through CC.

   From what I can gather, this is similar to CC. An operation like
PBS doesn't just encode something like "pbs.org?x=12345". They
encode "middlemanco.com?a=pbs.org?x=12345". Middlemanco
presumably collects tracking data for PBS.

   PBS is not the only one I've found. It seems to be a common
practice. Maybe it's just basic analytics. Maybe it's more. Either
way, the hijack is likely invisible, which makes it a good demo of
how to create invisible malware attacks with QR codes.

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#16424 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Newyana2 wrote:
> 
> > The clever thing with making you sign up for PhoneLink
> > is that you're apparently connecting through their server, so you
> > have to give them access to your computer AND your cellphone,
> > linking both to your MS ID.
>
> I see if you try to link an iPhone instead of an Android phone, it asks 
> you to scan a QR code instead of sign-in with a MSA, not any use to me 
> as I don't have an iPhone.

  I don't particularly like that the (Microsoft) Phone Link app requires
a Microsoft Account (at least to set it up) and that's why I don't use
it (because I don't want to have/use a Microsoft Account), but what
Newyana2 says is of course not true: You don't give Microsoft access to
your computer and your phone. You allow a Microsoft *app* on your phone
to talk to a Microsoft *app* on your computer (and vice versa). That's
all.

  If one follows Newyana2's 'logic', Google would have full control of
my bank accounts, airline and hotel reservations, etc., etc., just
because the respective apps are all on the same phone.

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#16425 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

Frank Slootweg wrote:

>    I don't particularly like that the (Microsoft) Phone Link app requires
> a Microsoft Account (at least to set it up) and that's why I don't use
> it (because I don't want to have/use a Microsoft Account), but what
> Newyana2 says is of course not true: You don't give Microsoft access to
> your computer and your phone. You allow a Microsoftapp on your phone
> to talk to a Microsoftapp on your computer (and vice versa). That's
> all.

My worry is that having signed-in to a MSA in order to allow the Phone 
Link App to work, will any other apps feel at liberty to use that same 
MSA for other purposes?

I have a recollection of signing-in to OneDrive using a MS365 account, 
for some testing and discovering much later that it was being used for 
other purposes.

>    If one follows Newyana2's 'logic', Google would have full control of
> my bank accounts, airline and hotel reservations, etc., etc., just
> because the respective apps are all on the same phone.

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#16429 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

On 1/20/2025 7:07 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 
>>    I don't particularly like that the (Microsoft) Phone Link app requires
>> a Microsoft Account (at least to set it up) and that's why I don't use
>> it (because I don't want to have/use a Microsoft Account), but what
>> Newyana2 says is of course not true: You don't give Microsoft access to
>> your computer and your phone. You allow a Microsoftapp on your phone
>> to talk to a Microsoftapp on your computer (and vice versa). That's
>> all.
> 
> My worry is that having signed-in to a MSA in order to allow the Phone 
> Link App to work, will any other apps feel at liberty to use that same 
> MSA for other purposes?
> 
    And if you care about privacy at all, there's the simple
fact that Microsoft now knows your phone AND your
computer, likely having collected unique IDs and so on.

   Frank, of course, is talking nonsense, exercising his
bile ducts. Microsoft taking over your phone would
be malware. But MS is going to have to become more like
Google if they want to make money with ads and/or selling
personal data. By letting them ID your cellphone you give
them potential access to a whole realm of ad/surveillance
partners. And only MS can combine the cellphone data with
the Windows PC data. So that could put them in a
powerful position as an ad middleman.

   It would be hard to overestimate these kinds of connections.
Remember when Google got caught slurping wifi data from
their streetview vans? Why the heck would they bother to
collect 30 seconds of your Internet activity? What value could
it possibly have? The value is cumulative. For Google, every
data bit counts. And combining/analyzing them all is nearly
cost-free. That's why they run an ad/surveillance monopoly.
They tirelessly collect every single data bit that they can, no
matter how small. They also have partners, such as credit card
companies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23/google-now-knows-when-you-are-at-a-cash-register-and-how-much-you-are-spending/

   Now with so-called AI they not only know where you are, what
you've bought, what's in your email, and so on. They can also
likely predict that you'll be driving along abc street at 10:15 AM,
listening to a particular streaming music service, and it would be
a good time to send you an ad for new tires. Further, they can
directly sell their intel about you to others.

    If Microsoft ends up on your cellphone, there are possible
tie-ins like selling you an Android Copilot app. But it also potentially
puts them in the surveillance catbird seat. That's something they've
mostly stayed out of in the past. They need businesses to trust them,
so they can't afford to play dirty like Google/Amazon/Facebook/Apple.
But now that they're getting into ads as a part of Windows profits,
they need to go whole hog or they just won't be able to charge
lucrative rates for ad space.... If you look at it that way, with
Microsoft controlling Windows, they could easily give Google a run
for their money by being the only sleazeball surveillance bigwig to
connect all devices intimately.

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#16432 — Re: Installing Windows 11 Without a Microsoft Account [resend]

Andy Burns wrote on 1/20/25 5:07 AM:
> 
> My worry is that having signed-in to a MSA in order to allow the Phone 
> Link App to work, will any other apps feel at liberty to use that same 
> MSA for other purposes?

No.
> 
> I have a recollection of signing-in to OneDrive using a MS365 account, 
> for some testing and discovering much later that it was being used for 
> other purposes.
> 

No such thing as a M365 account per se...
In the consumer environment M365 its a Microsft Account created when 
purchasing, activating and using the application and if desired its 
integrated Microsoft Services(OneDrive, OneNote, Outlook.com email, 
online MSFT account features(Acct, Your Info, Privacy, Security and other 
settings within the confines of that sole MSFT account).

In the M365 business arena the admin creates an account for the 
user(which is also a Microsoft account) with a unique username for the 
business domain(e.g. elvis@domain.com), a password and selects the 
licensed product giving the user the permission to access and use the 
licensed product/program(s).  Depending upon the subscription, the admin 
can add multiple users($x/user) up to the number included in the 
subscription(max 300 for the Basic, Standard, Premium, and Apps for 
business).
  The assigned license provides the user@domain(their unique domain 
Microsoft account) access to all admin approved features and services 
included in the license(i.e. the different users can have different 
levels of access).

With respect to 'being used for other purposes'
  Can you elaborate more on 'other purposes'??
If you meant that logging on to OneDrive in a browser also provides links 
to other services available for the Microsoft Account, then those 
services were established when the Microsoft Account was created.

-- 
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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