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Will It Recommend You Install Linux?

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  Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-19 20:56 +0000
    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-19 17:35 -0400
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-20 04:18 -0400
    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Bill <nonegiven@att.net> - 2025-03-20 13:10 -0400
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-20 15:08 -0400
        Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Bill <nonegiven@att.net> - 2025-03-20 15:52 -0400
        Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-20 22:41 +0100
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-20 22:39 +0100
        Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Dual Boot Windows <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-20 23:15 +0000
        Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-03-21 17:35 +0000
    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-20 13:53 -0500
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-20 15:56 -0400
        Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-20 17:03 -0500
          Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 00:26 +0000
            Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-20 20:42 -0500
              Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Mr Xi Ji Ping <ping@china.cn> - 2025-03-21 02:00 +0000
              Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 02:34 +0000
                Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-21 17:20 -0500
                  Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-22 18:37 +0000
                    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-22 16:37 -0500
                      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-22 18:37 -0400
                  Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 02:19 +0000
                    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-23 01:31 -0400
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 00:20 +0000
        Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-20 21:32 -0500
          Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 03:26 +0000

Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]

#17863

On Sat, 3/22/2025 5:37 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>>   (noise deleted from vallor's attribution line)
>>>>
>>>>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>>>>   (noise removed from vallor's attribution line)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just about everything, is functionally broken right now. For example,
>>>>>>>> even if you had the money, you can't drive to BestBuy and buy a GPU.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the history of BestBuy, I've NEVER been able to buy there just a
>>>>>>> GPU.
>>>>>>> I had to buy a video card with its GPU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The colloquial term Paul used was correct -- and your splitting of
>>>>>> hairs has nothing to do with his discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just what is YOUR colloquial definition of "GPU" that differs from the
>>>>> technical definition of GPU?  Perhaps a video card, or a CPU with
>>>>> integral video?  I *can* buy both of those at BestBuy.
>>>>
>>>> I thought it was obvious what Paul was talking about -- and I doubt
>>>> you missed his meaning, since you are an intelligent person.
>>>
>>> You don't know, and why you avoid answering.
>>
>>   In the old days, it wasn't a chip and not even a 'card', but a big
>> box, costing tens of thousands of dollars. So there you go!
> 
> I only go back to around 1974 when I was in my teens to use the
> University's mainframe, and sumbitted input using punch cards or tape
> created at a teletype terminal.  Then came dumb terminals with keyboards
> and monitors made of tubes (CRTs) and discrete circuits, and the servers
> did all the computing.  No PCs, Macs, or cell phones.
> 
> ICs (Integrated Circuits) showed up in 1959 from, I believe, Fairchild.
> Arcade boxes have used specialized ICs since 1970s.  Before that, I
> don't recall GPUs existed, but not sure back then that anything inside
> the monitor was called a GPU.  In the prior monitors, they had
> television interface adaptors, and rendered the display as soon as the
> digital signal got converted.  There was no GPU.
> 
> From what I can tell, the term "GPU" (graphics processing unit) did not
> exist until 1994 when Sony used it to describe their Toshiba-designed 
> graphics IC and support logic.  Nvidia popularized the term in 1999
> saying their GeForce 256 was the "world's first GPU".  AMD tried to
> market their VPU (Visual Processing Unit) term.
> 
> https://medium.com/altumea/a-brief-history-of-gpu-47d98d6a0f8a
> 
> There were video chips (ICs) and discrete logic back in 1970 which were
> the basis for later development into GPUs, but those were not GPUs back
> then.  
> 
> https://www.britannica.com/technology/graphics-processing-unit
> 
> Maybe before the IC era which almost predates my birth (I wasn't doing
> any computing of any kind when I was 3 years old), there were video
> controllers as discrete logic, but back then you used dumb terminals
> which were basically TV sets with converters from digital input.  I
> don't what was used at the server end to encode the video signals into
> the digital signals sent to the dumb terminals, but back then the term
> "GPU" did not yet exist.
> 
>>   My GPU is bigger than yours!
> 
> But I can legibly spell my entire name in the snow with 3-foot letters!
> 

They were originally frame buffers, with LUT and DAC for output.
They would originally have been built with jelly bean logic (counters
and registers).

My first display device was a CRT5027, which already appeared to be
old hat when I bought one. I've been unable to find the year of
introduction. It predates PDF, so the only copies are ones done
by scanning a paper datasheet (undated). The nine registers, are the same
register definitions as the modern "Mode Line" in graphics. which when
you think about it, that's the most shocking feature of the chip -- it
defines what is still used today on computers. The Mode Line definition.

This isn't color and does not have a LUT or a character generator or a DAC.
This does monochrome without any help. My breadboard circuit did 640x480x1
and fed a 12MHz monitor (equals 640x480) and being a black and white TV
set, was perfect for the job.

http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/tech/crt5027.pdf

When I got to work, the video card (not sure what the card
was called in the catalog), part of the card was "wasted"
on a BITBLT implementation. The intention might have been
to support Bresenhams algorithm. That would draw straight
lines, and would be a 2D form of acceleration. I guess
the staff coded up some driver code for it, and it was
taking too long to load the hardware with operands, to get
any benefit from it. And that wasn't the last time that
would happen.

Later in the groups life, we did a real GPU. Three boards.
Boards wired together with a massive number of ribbon cables.
The ribbon cables had to be folded just right, for the
thing to be assembled. It could change color images at
60FPS ("epilepsy risk" before we knew about epilepsy risk
when it was used in an auditorium). That never got further
than the prototype, but the team had fun working on that.
Might have run at 25MHz, didn't do gouraud shading (we only
had one driver writer and she had an "infinite" feature
list to implement). That would have had a LUT and a DAC,
but I didn't really know anything about the design in detail,
other than the most basic features. Like DX12, that used
"display lists" for execution. A whole structure would be
sent to the card, to execute and fill the frame buffer with
some color object(s).

Because this was the beginning of an industry, and the
first circuits were pretty primitive, we had to be happy
with fairly low levels of integration. You're talking 5K gates
for the CRT5027, when modern GPUs have billions and billions of gates.

Once the chips became complex enough to support a DAC on
board, that changed everything. Suddenly Brooktree was kicked
to the curb, and devices were doing some of the external functions,
internally.

In later life, the functions were still getting smeared around,
because the DAC can't be built just anywhere. It's a mixed
digital-analog function. For the iGPU, for a period of a year or two,
there was still VGA, and the lookup for the colors on that might
have been in the PCH.

Modern designs have all-digital outputs, no more DACs, no more VGA.
If you want VGA, it's an adapter from the computer store (of
which I own several, to continue using my VGA-based LCD monitors).
When the HDMI didn't work on my newest monitor, no problem, the
(ancient) VGA input did work, and an HDMI to VGA adapter could
drive that input. Problem solved.

   Paul

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#17871

On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 17:20:51 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote in
<12ltxfvvwcvem.dlg@v.nguard.lh>:

> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> 
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>   (noise deleted from vallor's attribution line)
>> 
>>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>>   (noise removed from vallor's attribution line)
>>>> 
>>>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just about everything, is functionally broken right now. For
>>>>>> example,
>>>>>> even if you had the money, you can't drive to BestBuy and buy a
>>>>>> GPU.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the history of BestBuy, I've NEVER been able to buy there just a
>>>>> GPU.
>>>>> I had to buy a video card with its GPU.
>>>> 
>>>> The colloquial term Paul used was correct -- and your splitting of
>>>> hairs has nothing to do with his discussion.
>>> 
>>> Just what is YOUR colloquial definition of "GPU" that differs from the
>>> technical definition of GPU?  Perhaps a video card, or a CPU with
>>> integral video?  I *can* buy both of those at BestBuy.
>> 
>> I thought it was obvious what Paul was talking about -- and I doubt you
>> missed his meaning, since you are an intelligent person.
> 
> You don't know, and why you avoid answering.

Isn't that nice -- I give you the benefit of the doubt, but
you make silly accusations.

What I got from it is Paul was talking about discrete GPU interface
cards, usually PCiE x16.  It didn't occur to me to consider a full CPU,
with an iGPU included, from the context.

Of course, I could be wrong:  Let's ask Paul!

Paul, what did you mean when you said you couldn't go to Best Buy and
buy a GPU?

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc7 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G

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#17872

On Sat, 3/22/2025 10:19 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 17:20:51 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote in
> <12ltxfvvwcvem.dlg@v.nguard.lh>:
> 
>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>
>>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>   (noise deleted from vallor's attribution line)
>>>
>>>> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>>>   (noise removed from vallor's attribution line)
>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just about everything, is functionally broken right now. For
>>>>>>> example,
>>>>>>> even if you had the money, you can't drive to BestBuy and buy a
>>>>>>> GPU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the history of BestBuy, I've NEVER been able to buy there just a
>>>>>> GPU.
>>>>>> I had to buy a video card with its GPU.
>>>>>
>>>>> The colloquial term Paul used was correct -- and your splitting of
>>>>> hairs has nothing to do with his discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Just what is YOUR colloquial definition of "GPU" that differs from the
>>>> technical definition of GPU?  Perhaps a video card, or a CPU with
>>>> integral video?  I *can* buy both of those at BestBuy.
>>>
>>> I thought it was obvious what Paul was talking about -- and I doubt you
>>> missed his meaning, since you are an intelligent person.
>>
>> You don't know, and why you avoid answering.
> 
> Isn't that nice -- I give you the benefit of the doubt, but
> you make silly accusations.
> 
> What I got from it is Paul was talking about discrete GPU interface
> cards, usually PCiE x16.  It didn't occur to me to consider a full CPU,
> with an iGPU included, from the context.
> 
> Of course, I could be wrong:  Let's ask Paul!
> 
> Paul, what did you mean when you said you couldn't go to Best Buy and
> buy a GPU?
> 

There is a lot of scalper activity (buying of cards to "corner"
immediate market, make a profit off the cards by selling on Ebay).

The question is, is there really sufficient production capacity to
flood the market with supply and stop that from happening ?

The real market is gamers. The cards are useless for AI work (on purpose,
the GDDR RAM has been made too small for AI).

The cards are relatively useless for Bitcoin mining (too slow). There isn't
really a reason that gaming cards should not be available
for consumption.

At one time, there was a lot of years-old "junk" in the market.
When COVID came along, the steady dribble method kind of dried up,
and the supply situation would be mostly new designs and new stock,
rather than all the old stuff we used to get. For example, I could
get a GT1030 for a number of years... if I wanted one because
my CPU did not have an iGPU inside it. You could use a GT1030
as a basic frame buffer (not suited to gaming, just enough
for a screen for the computer to use).

A lot of that material is gone. You might be able to get a
GT730 for example, which is yonks old, and driver support has
stopped. (At some point, even Linux driver updates will stop
supporting that card.)

My computer store had practically no low-end AMD cards in stock.
I think the video card companies may have stopped making them, or
maybe the amount of used "coin" cards (Ethereum) entering the market,
convinced the video card companies to stop making the 4MB ones.

I see some CPUs that were previously being scalped, appear to be
available at MSRP. This implies a supply situation there has been
solved. Making video cards takes time. Receiving batches of GPUs
is the start of the process. Then the pick and place and soldering
can take place. On a paper launch, there is no real stock. It might
take months, for all we know, for stocking levels to approach
demand levels. They normally "bank" these before the launch date,
and cards are sitting on a storage shelf at retail stores, waiting
for launch. Sometimes the card and the cardboard box, are stored
separately.

For the consumer then, you want to acquire your card at the MSRP
price. Or the MSRP price plus tariff. In other words, the "fair"
price. The scalper "unfair price", we seek to not reward scalpers,
to try to drive them away from doing this. If you are withholding
your purchase, because of excess profit-seeking behavior, the
root cause is still a lack of supply, to overload the scalpers
and bring pricing down to rational levels.

*******

OK, a quick scan right now, this very moment, indicates 9070
available at $1000, and out of stock for $800 units. Which
isn't bad, considering. It means there is stock, without
too much of a premium. Either the cheap models never shipped,
or people have bought up the cheap ones leaving the slightly
more expensive ones as being in stock.

If I were to go up the street to the BestBuy (with respect to that
store), then I would expect to see the $1000 cards there as well.

The 5090 on the other hand, all entries are marked "not available for order",
so it's not even "out of stock". Who knows where those have gone.
They likely never existed.

A year ago when I checked, BestBuy had two video card models,
mid-range pricing ($500-$600 at the time), and you could not
get a $200 card from them. Whereas the other store I use for
reference, yes, it had $200 cards, but they are available
in "batches", implying a non-normal acquisition pattern
(warranty cards normally used to satisfy warranty requests).
Sometimes companies sell off their warranty cards, when the warranty
is known to no longer be valid and the card is aged out.
That's how I got my 7900GT for $65, years after production
had ceased.

    Paul

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#17836

On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 13:53:50 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote in
<3tx5d2t6gry0$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> posted to:
>   alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.comp.os.windows-10 comp.os.linux.advocacy 
>   <-- Garbage/flaming newsgroup
> 
>> “Windows 11 will soon let you know why your PC hardware sucks”
>> 
>> <https:// www. theverge.
>> com/news/632327/microsoft-windows-11-system-device-specs-
recommendations>
>> 
>> Of course, it’s not their hardware that “sucks”, it’s the bloated
>> Windows OS that the poor vict^H^H^H^Husers are trying to run on it.
> 
> <Aside>
> Oops, looks like I missed comp.os.linux.advocacy when a poster includes
> garbage newsgroups.  Filter now updated.
> 
> Garbage newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy omitted in my reply.
> </Aside>

Yet you made a post on-topic for cola.  Weird attitude.

> 
> There is no full citation of the claimed FAQ found in a dev build, just
> a screen snapshot showing a couple points at its start.  Dev builds are
> of little interest to the release channel community.  Changes in dev may
> not make it to the release.  Without any mention of what the FAQ is
> professed to claim, the article is just more FUD.  It adds nothing new.
> 
> "Is my GPU sufficient for high end gaming ...?"
> 
> Oh, gee, like that never ever had any impact on video games, uh huh.  I
> suppose not as much an issue under Linux since that that platform is not
> much used as a gaming platform due to lack of choices on Linux.

Have you considered the SteamDeck?

> 
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/265033/proportion-of-operating-
systems-used-on-the-online-gaming-platform-steam/
>   "As of September 2023, the most frequently used OS by users of the
>   gaming platform Steam was Windows at almost 97 percent. Linux followed
>   in second place, with 1.6 percent, ahead of OSX with 1.43 percent
>   share."
>   Aug 19, 2024
>   
> Of course, not everyone playing video games is doing so through Steam,
> but it is still an indicative statistic on how little Linux is used for
> gaming.

Again: Have you considered the SteamDeck?

And: I run Steam on my Linux workstation.  All my games run on
Linux -- some natively, some with proton.  As an example, I run
Elite Dangerous in 4K:

https://imgur.com/HdiuopH

YMMV.

With Win11 obsoleting so much hardware, I suspect there will be
many more people making the leap to Linux.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc7 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "I feel like a fugitive from the law of averages."

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#17840

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 13:53:50 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote in
> <3tx5d2t6gry0$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> posted to:
>>   alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.comp.os.windows-10 comp.os.linux.advocacy 
>>   <-- Garbage/flaming newsgroup
>> 
>>> “Windows 11 will soon let you know why your PC hardware sucks”
>>> 
>>> <https:// www. theverge.
>>> com/news/632327/microsoft-windows-11-system-device-specs-
> recommendations>
>>> 
>>> Of course, it’s not their hardware that “sucks”, it’s the bloated
>>> Windows OS that the poor vict^H^H^H^Husers are trying to run on it.
>> 
>> <Aside>
>> Oops, looks like I missed comp.os.linux.advocacy when a poster includes
>> garbage newsgroups.  Filter now updated.
>> 
>> Garbage newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy omitted in my reply.
>> </Aside>
> 
> Yet you made a post on-topic for cola.  Weird attitude.

Hence the Aside tags to denote a side issue or off-topic mention to
highlight Lawrence cross-posted to a garbage newsgroup.

>> There is no full citation of the claimed FAQ found in a dev build, just
>> a screen snapshot showing a couple points at its start.  Dev builds are
>> of little interest to the release channel community.  Changes in dev may
>> not make it to the release.  Without any mention of what the FAQ is
>> professed to claim, the article is just more FUD.  It adds nothing new.
>> 
>> "Is my GPU sufficient for high end gaming ...?"
>> 
>> Oh, gee, like that never ever had any impact on video games, uh huh.  I
>> suppose not as much an issue under Linux since that that platform is not
>> much used as a gaming platform due to lack of choices on Linux.
> 
> Have you considered the SteamDeck?

Sorry you misunderstood that I only use my Windows host for gaming.  Or
that I prefer squinting at tiny handheld screens.

SteamOS is Linux based (Arch).  That limits games to what will run on
that OS.  Destiny 2, Halo Infinite are a no-go. Games that use their own
launchers (e.g., EA Origin) won't work.  Problems with multi-player
games.

Do you know how many games can be played on Steamdeck?  On user noted he
had 531 games in his Steam library, but only 132 were verified by Valve
on Steamdeck (Dragon Age Inquisition, Marvel's Avengers, Crysis,
Terminator: Resistance, Elite Dangerous, Fall Guys, Hardspace:
Shipbreaker, Injustice 2, and so on).  Steamdeck has over 3,000 verified
games, but there are more than 50,000 games on Steam.

So, your suggestion is to move to yet another platform with even less
games.

> And: I run Steam on my Linux workstation.  All my games run on
> Linux -- some natively, some with proton.  

So, add more to the Rube Goldberg setup.

> With Win11 obsoleting so much hardware, I suspect there will be
> many more people making the leap to Linux.

With all the delving into Linux by Microsoft (Azure/Ubuntu, WSL, etc),
I suspect that by 2038 that Windows will just be the GUI/desktop atop of
a Linux platform, and, of course, all the Rube Goldberg mechanisms to
get old proggies to run ... for a while ... like what they already did
for WoW32 and do now WoW64 to run 16- and 32-bit proggies to run (until
the old WoW got removed in a later version of Windows).  After all, even
Linux has different desktops/managers from which to choose as the user
interface to the underlying OS.  SOme even try to look like Windows atop
of Linux to lure Windows users to Linux as long as those users never
have to delve into the intricacies of the OS.  Microsoft even added
support for Android apps on Windows 11 using WSA (although the apps are
only at Amazon).  Just add another emulator to add support.  Just add
another VMM (Virtual Machine Manager) to run non-native apps in a guest
OS as though they're running on the host/parent OS (e.g., Virtualbox).
Doing the reverse with WINE is fraught with problems, incompatibilities,
and deficiencies.

https://lunduke.substack.com/p/microsofts-growing-control-of-linux

Your Linux realm is getting increasingly coming under control of the
evil empires: Microsoft and Apple.  Tis possible they plan to migrate,
but they may also conquer to destroy, like how Symantec's acquisitions
often disappear, or they may absorb to use what is best from both OSes.
Alas, "best" is subjective to whomever makes the claim.

Incrementalism works very well to conquer a nemesis.  It's going to get
muddy for a while, and less required the users even know what is the OS.
Used to be "embrace, extend, and extinguish" to eliminate competition.
Seems the current trend is to absorb.  We are the Borg.  Resistance is
futile.

https://www.stationx.net/os-wars-why-has-microsoft-embraced-linux/
"Not only is Microsoft one of the biggest contributors to the Linux
kernel, ..."

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#17843

On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 21:32:56 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote in
<1w66o33dgkt67.dlg@v.nguard.lh>:

> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 13:53:50 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote in
>> <3tx5d2t6gry0$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>:
>> 
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> posted to:
>>>   alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.comp.os.windows-10 comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>>   <-- Garbage/flaming newsgroup
>>> 
>>>> “Windows 11 will soon let you know why your PC hardware sucks”
>>>> 
>>>> <https:// www. theverge.
>>>> com/news/632327/microsoft-windows-11-system-device-specs-
>> recommendations>
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, it’s not their hardware that “sucks”, it’s the bloated
>>>> Windows OS that the poor vict^H^H^H^Husers are trying to run on it.
>>> 
>>> <Aside>
>>> Oops, looks like I missed comp.os.linux.advocacy when a poster
>>> includes garbage newsgroups.  Filter now updated.
>>> 
>>> Garbage newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy omitted in my reply.
>>> </Aside>
>> 
>> Yet you made a post on-topic for cola.  Weird attitude.
> 
> Hence the Aside tags to denote a side issue or off-topic mention to
> highlight Lawrence cross-posted to a garbage newsgroup.

Don't look too close, though -- cola is in the comp.* hierarchy,
and is part of the "big 8".  This froup is in alt.*.  Someone
posting about cola being "garbage" in an alt.* froup is...ironic.

Yes, there is a lot of political garbage posted to cola, but some 
judicious Score file entries clean that right up.  It's not an
insurmountable problem.

>>> There is no full citation of the claimed FAQ found in a dev build,
>>> just a screen snapshot showing a couple points at its start.  Dev
>>> builds are of little interest to the release channel community. 
>>> Changes in dev may not make it to the release.  Without any mention of
>>> what the FAQ is professed to claim, the article is just more FUD.  It
>>> adds nothing new.
>>> 
>>> "Is my GPU sufficient for high end gaming ...?"
>>> 
>>> Oh, gee, like that never ever had any impact on video games, uh huh. 
>>> I suppose not as much an issue under Linux since that that platform is
>>> not much used as a gaming platform due to lack of choices on Linux.
>> 
>> Have you considered the SteamDeck?
> 
> Sorry you misunderstood that I only use my Windows host for gaming.  Or
> that I prefer squinting at tiny handheld screens.
> 
> SteamOS is Linux based (Arch).  That limits games to what will run on
> that OS.  Destiny 2, Halo Infinite are a no-go. Games that use their own
> launchers (e.g., EA Origin) won't work.  Problems with multi-player
> games.

On protondb.com, Destiny 2 is listed as "borked" due to no support for
their anti-cheat in Linux.

Halo Infinite is listed as "silver":

   https://www.protondb.com/app/1240440

But, you are correct:  not all games will run on Linux.  That doesn't
dismiss it as a gaming platform, though, since that depends on the games
players want to run.  Further -- thanks to DXVK -- some games run _better_
on Linux than Windows.

I remember trying to get Fallout 3 to work properly on Windows, back when
I dual-booted.  Finally, I tried Linux with WINE (there was no proton back
then) and I was able to play the game.  Further, I was able to route sound
better than with Windows for purposes of streaming.  This is still the
case.

> Do you know how many games can be played on Steamdeck?  On user noted he
> had 531 games in his Steam library, but only 132 were verified by Valve
> on Steamdeck (Dragon Age Inquisition, Marvel's Avengers, Crysis,
> Terminator: Resistance, Elite Dangerous, Fall Guys, Hardspace:
> Shipbreaker, Injustice 2, and so on).  Steamdeck has over 3,000 verified
> games, but there are more than 50,000 games on Steam.
> 
> So, your suggestion is to move to yet another platform with even less
> games.

My suggestion is to do the homework to see if one's games are supported.

https://www.protondb.com/

And my mention of SteamDeck was in response to your report of 1.4% of
Steam users running Linux.  (Sure, but did you include SteamDeck users?)
Also, a low percentage of the market does not equate to failure --
consider the market share of brews like Samuel Adams.

>> And: I run Steam on my Linux workstation.  All my games run on Linux --
>> some natively, some with proton.
> 
> So, add more to the Rube Goldberg setup.

This sounds like the voice of inexperience.  Surely you don't mind
running games with Steam -- and proton is all but built-in to Steam,
it's almost a seamless experience.  Add to that the use of DXVK passing
graphics calls to Vulkan, and you can, with some games, get better
performance than with Windows.


>> With Win11 obsoleting so much hardware, I suspect there will be many
>> more people making the leap to Linux.
> 
> With all the delving into Linux by Microsoft (Azure/Ubuntu, WSL, etc), I
> suspect that by 2038 that Windows will just be the GUI/desktop atop of a
> Linux platform, and, of course, all the Rube Goldberg mechanisms to get
> old proggies to run ... for a while ... like what they already did for
> WoW32 and do now WoW64 to run 16- and 32-bit proggies to run (until the
> old WoW got removed in a later version of Windows).

I don't think modern Windows can run the old 16-bit software, one has
to do that with DOSBox or something along those lines.

Do you remember Microsoft's "Midori" project?  It was an experiment
with an OS using all managed code.  It's only a short step from something
like that to having "OS layers" in userspace that process arbitrary ABI's.
Proton does that; and Microsoft's WSL1 did something similar in the other
direction, before they punted and started running Linux itself in HyperV.

Like it or not, Linux is now an optional component to Windows.  Meanwhile,
Linux already has "borged" some of the Apple/NeXT ecosystem, with
components such as GNUStep and Cairo.

Here is an example of Cairo-dock:

   https://imgur.com/fQf8sy9

 ...and it should look familiar.

> After all, even
> Linux has different desktops/managers from which to choose as the user
> interface to the underlying OS.  SOme even try to look like Windows atop
> of Linux to lure Windows users to Linux as long as those users never
> have to delve into the intricacies of the OS.

LOL @ "lure".  But, I'm not a fan of desktop environments that
look like Windows -- I want my desktop to look _better_ than windows,
and be an intuitive interface that largely stays out of my way.


> Microsoft even added
> support for Android apps on Windows 11 using WSA (although the apps are
> only at Amazon).  Just add another emulator to add support.  Just add
> another VMM (Virtual Machine Manager) to run non-native apps in a guest
> OS as though they're running on the host/parent OS (e.g., Virtualbox).
> Doing the reverse with WINE is fraught with problems, incompatibilities,
> and deficiencies.
> 
> https://lunduke.substack.com/p/microsofts-growing-control-of-linux

You know that Lunduke isn't credible anymore, right?

> 
> Your Linux realm is getting increasingly coming under control of the
> evil empires: Microsoft and Apple.  Tis possible they plan to migrate,
> but they may also conquer to destroy, like how Symantec's acquisitions
> often disappear, or they may absorb to use what is best from both OSes.
> Alas, "best" is subjective to whomever makes the claim.
> 
> Incrementalism works very well to conquer a nemesis.  It's going to get
> muddy for a while, and less required the users even know what is the OS.
> Used to be "embrace, extend, and extinguish" to eliminate competition.
> Seems the current trend is to absorb.  We are the Borg.  Resistance is
> futile.
> 
> https://www.stationx.net/os-wars-why-has-microsoft-embraced-linux/
> "Not only is Microsoft one of the biggest contributors to the Linux
> kernel, ..."

Of course.  They also heavily rely on Linux -- that's what Azure runs
on, both the switches and the hosts.  (They tried doing it on Windows,
but it did not scale.)

They even have their own internal distribution:  Azure Linux:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure_Linux

And Microsoft has documentation on installing Linux:

   https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install

(Personally, I don't know why more enterprises don't standardize
on Linux, since Office365 works fine with it.)

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc7 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "Catalogue: How to tell one sort of cat from another."

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