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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-11 > #17843

Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux?

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 21:32:56 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote in
<1w66o33dgkt67.dlg@v.nguard.lh>:

> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 13:53:50 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote in
>> <3tx5d2t6gry0$.dlg@v.nguard.lh>:
>> 
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> posted to:
>>>   alt.comp.os.windows-11 alt.comp.os.windows-10 comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>>   <-- Garbage/flaming newsgroup
>>> 
>>>> “Windows 11 will soon let you know why your PC hardware sucks”
>>>> 
>>>> <https:// www. theverge.
>>>> com/news/632327/microsoft-windows-11-system-device-specs-
>> recommendations>
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, it’s not their hardware that “sucks”, it’s the bloated
>>>> Windows OS that the poor vict^H^H^H^Husers are trying to run on it.
>>> 
>>> <Aside>
>>> Oops, looks like I missed comp.os.linux.advocacy when a poster
>>> includes garbage newsgroups.  Filter now updated.
>>> 
>>> Garbage newsgroup comp.os.linux.advocacy omitted in my reply.
>>> </Aside>
>> 
>> Yet you made a post on-topic for cola.  Weird attitude.
> 
> Hence the Aside tags to denote a side issue or off-topic mention to
> highlight Lawrence cross-posted to a garbage newsgroup.

Don't look too close, though -- cola is in the comp.* hierarchy,
and is part of the "big 8".  This froup is in alt.*.  Someone
posting about cola being "garbage" in an alt.* froup is...ironic.

Yes, there is a lot of political garbage posted to cola, but some 
judicious Score file entries clean that right up.  It's not an
insurmountable problem.

>>> There is no full citation of the claimed FAQ found in a dev build,
>>> just a screen snapshot showing a couple points at its start.  Dev
>>> builds are of little interest to the release channel community. 
>>> Changes in dev may not make it to the release.  Without any mention of
>>> what the FAQ is professed to claim, the article is just more FUD.  It
>>> adds nothing new.
>>> 
>>> "Is my GPU sufficient for high end gaming ...?"
>>> 
>>> Oh, gee, like that never ever had any impact on video games, uh huh. 
>>> I suppose not as much an issue under Linux since that that platform is
>>> not much used as a gaming platform due to lack of choices on Linux.
>> 
>> Have you considered the SteamDeck?
> 
> Sorry you misunderstood that I only use my Windows host for gaming.  Or
> that I prefer squinting at tiny handheld screens.
> 
> SteamOS is Linux based (Arch).  That limits games to what will run on
> that OS.  Destiny 2, Halo Infinite are a no-go. Games that use their own
> launchers (e.g., EA Origin) won't work.  Problems with multi-player
> games.

On protondb.com, Destiny 2 is listed as "borked" due to no support for
their anti-cheat in Linux.

Halo Infinite is listed as "silver":

   https://www.protondb.com/app/1240440

But, you are correct:  not all games will run on Linux.  That doesn't
dismiss it as a gaming platform, though, since that depends on the games
players want to run.  Further -- thanks to DXVK -- some games run _better_
on Linux than Windows.

I remember trying to get Fallout 3 to work properly on Windows, back when
I dual-booted.  Finally, I tried Linux with WINE (there was no proton back
then) and I was able to play the game.  Further, I was able to route sound
better than with Windows for purposes of streaming.  This is still the
case.

> Do you know how many games can be played on Steamdeck?  On user noted he
> had 531 games in his Steam library, but only 132 were verified by Valve
> on Steamdeck (Dragon Age Inquisition, Marvel's Avengers, Crysis,
> Terminator: Resistance, Elite Dangerous, Fall Guys, Hardspace:
> Shipbreaker, Injustice 2, and so on).  Steamdeck has over 3,000 verified
> games, but there are more than 50,000 games on Steam.
> 
> So, your suggestion is to move to yet another platform with even less
> games.

My suggestion is to do the homework to see if one's games are supported.

https://www.protondb.com/

And my mention of SteamDeck was in response to your report of 1.4% of
Steam users running Linux.  (Sure, but did you include SteamDeck users?)
Also, a low percentage of the market does not equate to failure --
consider the market share of brews like Samuel Adams.

>> And: I run Steam on my Linux workstation.  All my games run on Linux --
>> some natively, some with proton.
> 
> So, add more to the Rube Goldberg setup.

This sounds like the voice of inexperience.  Surely you don't mind
running games with Steam -- and proton is all but built-in to Steam,
it's almost a seamless experience.  Add to that the use of DXVK passing
graphics calls to Vulkan, and you can, with some games, get better
performance than with Windows.


>> With Win11 obsoleting so much hardware, I suspect there will be many
>> more people making the leap to Linux.
> 
> With all the delving into Linux by Microsoft (Azure/Ubuntu, WSL, etc), I
> suspect that by 2038 that Windows will just be the GUI/desktop atop of a
> Linux platform, and, of course, all the Rube Goldberg mechanisms to get
> old proggies to run ... for a while ... like what they already did for
> WoW32 and do now WoW64 to run 16- and 32-bit proggies to run (until the
> old WoW got removed in a later version of Windows).

I don't think modern Windows can run the old 16-bit software, one has
to do that with DOSBox or something along those lines.

Do you remember Microsoft's "Midori" project?  It was an experiment
with an OS using all managed code.  It's only a short step from something
like that to having "OS layers" in userspace that process arbitrary ABI's.
Proton does that; and Microsoft's WSL1 did something similar in the other
direction, before they punted and started running Linux itself in HyperV.

Like it or not, Linux is now an optional component to Windows.  Meanwhile,
Linux already has "borged" some of the Apple/NeXT ecosystem, with
components such as GNUStep and Cairo.

Here is an example of Cairo-dock:

   https://imgur.com/fQf8sy9

 ...and it should look familiar.

> After all, even
> Linux has different desktops/managers from which to choose as the user
> interface to the underlying OS.  SOme even try to look like Windows atop
> of Linux to lure Windows users to Linux as long as those users never
> have to delve into the intricacies of the OS.

LOL @ "lure".  But, I'm not a fan of desktop environments that
look like Windows -- I want my desktop to look _better_ than windows,
and be an intuitive interface that largely stays out of my way.


> Microsoft even added
> support for Android apps on Windows 11 using WSA (although the apps are
> only at Amazon).  Just add another emulator to add support.  Just add
> another VMM (Virtual Machine Manager) to run non-native apps in a guest
> OS as though they're running on the host/parent OS (e.g., Virtualbox).
> Doing the reverse with WINE is fraught with problems, incompatibilities,
> and deficiencies.
> 
> https://lunduke.substack.com/p/microsofts-growing-control-of-linux

You know that Lunduke isn't credible anymore, right?

> 
> Your Linux realm is getting increasingly coming under control of the
> evil empires: Microsoft and Apple.  Tis possible they plan to migrate,
> but they may also conquer to destroy, like how Symantec's acquisitions
> often disappear, or they may absorb to use what is best from both OSes.
> Alas, "best" is subjective to whomever makes the claim.
> 
> Incrementalism works very well to conquer a nemesis.  It's going to get
> muddy for a while, and less required the users even know what is the OS.
> Used to be "embrace, extend, and extinguish" to eliminate competition.
> Seems the current trend is to absorb.  We are the Borg.  Resistance is
> futile.
> 
> https://www.stationx.net/os-wars-why-has-microsoft-embraced-linux/
> "Not only is Microsoft one of the biggest contributors to the Linux
> kernel, ..."

Of course.  They also heavily rely on Linux -- that's what Azure runs
on, both the switches and the hosts.  (They tried doing it on Windows,
but it did not scale.)

They even have their own internal distribution:  Azure Linux:

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure_Linux

And Microsoft has documentation on installing Linux:

   https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install

(Personally, I don't know why more enterprises don't standardize
on Linux, since Office365 works fine with it.)

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
   OS: Linux 6.14.0-rc7 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G
   "Catalogue: How to tell one sort of cat from another."

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Thread

Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-19 20:56 +0000
  Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-19 17:35 -0400
    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-20 04:18 -0400
  Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Bill <nonegiven@att.net> - 2025-03-20 13:10 -0400
    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-20 15:08 -0400
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Bill <nonegiven@att.net> - 2025-03-20 15:52 -0400
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-20 22:41 +0100
    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-03-20 22:39 +0100
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Dual Boot Windows <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-03-20 23:15 +0000
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-03-21 17:35 +0000
  Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-20 13:53 -0500
    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-20 15:56 -0400
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-20 17:03 -0500
        Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 00:26 +0000
          Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-20 20:42 -0500
            Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Mr Xi Ji Ping <ping@china.cn> - 2025-03-21 02:00 +0000
            Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 02:34 +0000
              Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-21 17:20 -0500
                Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-22 18:37 +0000
                Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-22 16:37 -0500
                Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-22 18:37 -0400
                Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 02:19 +0000
                Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-23 01:31 -0400
    Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 00:20 +0000
      Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-03-20 21:32 -0500
        Re: Will It Recommend You Install Linux? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 03:26 +0000

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