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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-11 > #15495 > unrolled thread

The problem with not owning the software

Started byCrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
First post2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
Last post2024-12-25 16:19 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 199 — 26 participants

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Contents

  The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-19 20:03 -0500
    Re: The problem with not owning the software ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2024-12-19 19:55 -0700
    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 16:52 +0800
      Re: The problem with not owning the software CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-12-21 07:26 -0500
        Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-23 23:15 +0800
          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-23 23:24 +0000
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:48 +0800
              Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-25 06:54 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-25 20:39 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-27 22:23 +0800
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-27 11:31 -0600
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-28 07:04 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 16:53 +0800
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-28 19:34 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 15:07 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 15:12 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 17:11 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 17:17 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:16 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 14:24 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 15:39 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 16:06 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:10 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 17:39 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 18:58 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:10 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:21 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:55 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 18:02 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 18:35 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 19:51 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:00 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2024-12-29 22:34 -0500
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 03:48 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 19:55 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2024-12-29 20:15 -0600
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-29 21:49 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Jack Sovalot <hee-cawkforme@jack.sovalot> - 2024-12-30 04:06 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 08:31 -0500
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 19:12 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:53 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 21:06 -0500
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-31 11:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:00 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 19:52 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 01:46 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 20:52 -0500
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-01 17:02 -0500
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-01-18 11:54 -0600
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:46 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:51 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 09:34 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:53 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:42 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:09 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:44 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:05 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:14 +0100
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:09 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 00:32 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-12-29 01:43 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-12-28 20:52 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 07:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:58 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 21:17 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 20:41 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:31 +0100
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-30 10:56 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 03:24 +0100
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-31 13:50 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-31 13:18 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-31 19:14 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-01 07:44 -0500
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:22 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 19:36 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:27 +0100
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:16 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:57 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 18:50 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-30 02:30 +0100
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:55 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:05 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 01:00 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 16:15 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2024-12-29 16:39 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 21:00 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 19:08 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2024-12-29 22:30 -0600
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-30 07:00 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 12:53 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-30 13:01 -0500
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-31 00:57 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:45 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:31 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-02 00:33 +0000
                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-02 00:15 -0500
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 05:33 +0000
                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:03 +0000
                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:32 +0000
                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:50 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 08:52 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:42 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:05 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:59 +0000
                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 10:01 -0500
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:13 +0000
                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-04 21:50 +0000
                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 00:39 +0000
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 00:59 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:52 +0000
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:04 +0000
                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:22 +0000
                                                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 22:47 +0000
                                                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 00:12 +0000
                                                                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-07 02:10 +0000
                                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 02:26 +0000
                                                                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 13:28 +0000
                                                                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-08 21:28 +0000
                                                            [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 01:50 +0000
                                                              Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 03:01 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:25 +0000
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 06:47 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:20 -0500
                                                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 21:18 -0500
                                                              [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 02:34 +0000
                                                                Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-04 22:08 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:34 -0500
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-01-05 07:19 -0500
                                                                      Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
                                                                    Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
                                                                  Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
                                                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
                                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 22:05 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-03 09:09 -0500
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-01-03 20:33 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-01-03 21:00 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-03 23:28 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 21:17 -0500
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:57 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-01-04 22:25 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:19 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-04 04:49 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 01:10 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:52 +0000
                                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 15:55 +0000
                                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:20 +0000
                                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-06 08:11 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-31 23:20 -0600
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-12-25 11:53 +0800
        Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:24 +0000
          Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-30 10:08 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-12-31 20:32 +0100
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2024-12-31 21:34 -0500
            Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 16:47 +0000
              Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-01 19:29 +0000
                Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 12:09 +0000
                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-02 21:59 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-02 18:01 -0500
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 11:26 +0000
                        Re: The problem with not owning the software Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> - 2025-01-03 08:55 -0500
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-03 14:33 +0000
                          Re: The problem with not owning the software Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-04 19:32 -0500
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:46 +0000
                              Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-05 15:46 +0000
                                Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-06 00:17 +0000
                                  Re: The problem with not owning the software Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-01-06 14:57 +0000
                            Re: The problem with not owning the software Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-01-05 02:47 +0000
                      Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:14 +0000
                    Re: The problem with not owning the software Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-04 02:09 +0000
    Re: The problem with not owning the software bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-12-25 16:19 -0500

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#16128 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

From-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Date2025-01-05 10:39 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<vle93v$13ci0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#16122
On 1/5/25 7:19 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> -hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
> 
>> <snip>
>>
>> I think what changed for me was recognizing that I no longer need to go
>> through extraordinary efforts to make an PC last a decade anymore,
>> because their costs have declined so dramatically over the past 40 years.
> 
> Extraordinary efforts? I have a 12+ year-old laptop that's been a Linux
> box for all of its life (after it got delivered to me). 
> 
> The only extraordinary effort I took was installing an SSD.

For hardware that's only ~10 years old, sure.

But in this case I was thinking further back in time, such as in the 
1990s where things like CPU speeds increased by +30% every ~9 months. 
That high rate of change (vs today's) is what motivated a lot of us to 
DIY incremental hardware upgrades.

> The thing is shut down right now; Imma keeping it around for potential later
> usage.
> 
> (I've got an old desktop box sitting up in the attic. Not sure I will ever
> power it on again. Noisy, takes up too much room.)

Similarly, I've got a Vista box sitting around right now from an 
"Estate" clean-out of a familymember's home; not sure that anyone knows 
its Admin password...but it does have an SSD that I recall that I had 
installed sometime before 2013.  Keeping it around to potentially make a 
Linux based NAS appliance out of it, but part of that question will be 
to see how many internal SATA drives it can support to see if its really 
worth bothering much with, to repurpose a stack of old small 4TB drives 
that are on the "don't throw away yet" old hardware pile.

-hh

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#16117 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

Fromsnipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe)
Date2025-01-05 03:39 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<1r5o4br.1qna40ms20p83N%snipeco.2@gmail.com>
In reply to#16113
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:

[...]

> >> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
> >> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
> >>
> > 
> > Fair comment.  You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.
> >
>
> Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works; 
> they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking 
> wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
> would wish to do such things are peons.
> 
> Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
> I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I
> purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
> easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
> MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
> for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.
>

Yes, I quite agree; it's a matter of 'horses for courses'.  Personally,
having played the field, I simply can't be bothered any more getting to
grips with the nuts and bolts of the system.  

Macs suit me well, they do what I want of them.  If I need anything more
(e.g. ham radio stuff) I know how to achieve it in a VM; not many people
would even dream of doing that.

-- 
^Ï^.    Sn!pe, PTB, FIBS         My pet rock Gordon just is.

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#16123 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2025-01-05 08:13 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<gAveP.449257$DYF8.190480@fx14.iad>
In reply to#16117
On 2025-01-04 22:39, Sn!pe wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>>> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's
>>>> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Fair comment.  You're in a very small minority for wanting to do this.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, because Mac users typically don't care how the computer works;
>> they just want to use the software to accomplish something. Checking
>> wear, upgrading and changing components is all beneath them. Those who
>> would wish to do such things are peons.
>>
>> Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that
>> I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I
>> purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. I love how
>> easily Apple hardware communicates with other Apple hardware and find
>> MacOS to be a nice system, but I'm realizing that the best compromise
>> for me is Linux delivered by a steady community like that of Fedora.
>>
> 
> Yes, I quite agree; it's a matter of 'horses for courses'.  Personally,
> having played the field, I simply can't be bothered any more getting to
> grips with the nuts and bolts of the system.

I am admittedly feeling the same way now that I'm nearing middle age, 
which is partly why I am reverting to the frame of mind I had in my 20s 
when I was a fan of Apple and Mac OS X. Had the hardware not been too 
slow to run the operating system back then, I probably wouldn't have 
returned to Windows in 2006 or so. I was considering making all my 
hardware Apple when it will be time to replace what I own, but I don't 
feel comfortable spending nearly 3k or more on something that I can't 
upgrade. Since I also don't want to be stuck with an unfixable bug like 
the fTPM stuttering in Windows, Linux seems like the perfect solution.

> Macs suit me well, they do what I want of them.  If I need anything more
> (e.g. ham radio stuff) I know how to achieve it in a VM; not many people
> would even dream of doing that.

I'm especially a fan of the battery life I got when I still had that 
Macbook Air M1. I imagine that it would have gotten worse had I allowed 
the battery to wear out like most people do, but at 98% health, it was 
remarkable. I could go an entire workday with a single charge. Still, it 
definitely needed more than 8GB of RAM and 256GB was definitely not 
enough storage, but there was nothing I could do about it. Additionally, 
once the 256GB wore out (within the first five years by my 
calculations), there would have been nothing I could do to replace the 
storage. Not only that, but once the storage is worn, it shorts the CPU 
rendering the entire unit useless anyway. I've watched enough videos 
about it on YouTube to prompt me to sell a machine I otherwise liked 
very much. Considering this, I am likely to move to a manufacturer 
specializing in Linux hardware with an open BIOS and the rest.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch
Zephyrus G14 GA401QM on Fedora 41
KDE supporting member

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#16127 — Re: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software

Fromchrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
Date2025-01-05 08:52 -0600
SubjectRe: [OT] Re: The problem with not owning the software
Message-ID<827lnjt1spp7000d3pu6mhorbmvfch5d2f@4ax.com>
In reply to#16113
Andrzej Matuch wrote:

>Seriously though, I like the Apple-silicon Macs but I'm realizing that 
>I'm not the kind of person who would be content knowing that whatever I 
>purchased can't be changed in the slightest after purchase. 

Yeah, it makes them a less fun, to us computer geeks.

-- 
'[chrisv] literally said it was "stupid" to test the code vs relying
on compiler warnings.'  -  DumFSck, lying shamelessly

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#16133

FromChris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
Date2025-01-05 16:32 +0000
Message-ID<vlec6f$1433d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#16102
Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2025-01-04 19:39, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 21:50:21 +0000, Sn!pe wrote:
>> 
>>> [OT] That's the great thing about Apple:  from the users' viewpoint it
>>> all "just works".
>> 
>> Until it doesn’t. Why do you think Mac users feel the need for something
>> like Homebrew? That adds Linux-style package-manager functionality that is
>> missing from macOS. Because without it, trying to install open-source
>> software turns into a complete nightmare.
> 
> I wanted to install something to calculate the wear on my MacBook M1's 
> storage and experienced this first-hand. It's much easier with Linux.

That's a surprise. Was trivial here. 

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#16099

FromPaul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Date2025-01-04 20:53 -0500
Message-ID<vlcon6$naqn$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#16075
On Sat, 1/4/2025 10:01 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-03 23:50, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2025 02:32:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We have that, too. It’s called Jupyter <https://jupyter.org/>.
>>>
>>> Not user-friendly enough.
>>
>> If by “user-friendly” you mean “aimed at those accustomed to Microsoft
>> mediocrity”, then you’d be right.
> 
> At first glance, there is a lot about Windows that is way more user-friendly than Linux. However, if you take something like Linux Mint and compare it to Windows 11, you'd wonder _how_ Windows 11 is friendlier. In Windows 11, some applications can't be removed and you don't get an idea why. Some Windows components aren't even listed in the applications so you have to wonder how to install or remove them. For drivers, they're installed through Windows Update but if they don't work right, you just have to know about the Device Manager which is impossible to find on your own because they're phasing out the Control Panel. Some programs are available through the Window Store, others through the web which means that some are repairable and easily uninstallable whereas the others aren't... and so on. For new users, Linux Mint is actually _much_ simpler than Windows is.
> 

A typical Windows user:

1) Uses the hard drive they bought, until one morning it doesn't respond.
   "Yeah, it was clicking last week. What does that mean, anyway?"
2) They don't have any backups (as a followup to (1)).
3) Sometimes they notice that Windows Update hasn't run for the last 3 years.

Now, what could be simpler than that really ?

This is why sometimes, when a problem description comes along,
you don't know what they're talking about. And occasionally, you
discover their stuff is way way out of date and broken. And the chances
of fixing all the accumulated issues are pretty low.

   Paul

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#15709

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-28 21:26 -0500
Message-ID<Jr2cP.102507$DYF8.47346@fx14.iad>
In reply to#15705
On 2024-12-28 19:32, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 15:07:39 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
>> Yeah, it sometimes pains me that it is brought up as often as it is as
>> some sort of must-have piece of software. It suggests that people don't
>> do much other than open up Word and Excel.
> 
> I'm the minority report. I have never used Office. I have no need for it
> in my personal life and the company never installed it on the programming
> machines. If we get RFPs or other documents in docx or xlsx we use
> LibreOffice. For me, that's a read-only thing since my attempts to edit
> anything were disasters.
> 
> The first speadsheet I encountered was SuperCalc that was bundled on the
> Osborne 1 CP/M machine in '81. I never figured out how to use it or what
> it was good for. 40 years later I've never created any document with Excel
> or any other spreadsheet. The closest I've come is I'm told the Power BI
> queries are based on Excel's. Even then I was mining a SQL Server
> database, not anything created in Excel.
> 
> Office sofware in general is a whole other world for me. People are
> welcome to it but saying you must only do simple programming because you
> can't write a VBA script for Office is beyond sheer ignorance.

The only thing I've ever used Office for is essays and the occasional 
presentation. I've said it before: even AbiWord is more than enough for 
me. If I recall correctly, AbiWord had every feature I needed to write 
university essays and I actually became quite loyal to the program 
because it bailed me out when I had no other program to write with. It's 
pretty useless for the advanced Office files we all receive from others, 
but it's spectacular with any new document you might want to produce. 
The bonus is that it's fast as heck in 2024. Hell, it was fast and light 
as heck even in 2002 or whatever year it was.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

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#15710

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-29 06:38 +0000
Message-ID<ltc934Fb5sU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#15709
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 21:26:49 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> The only thing I've ever used Office for is essays and the occasional
> presentation. I've said it before: even AbiWord is more than enough for
> me. If I recall correctly, AbiWord had every feature I needed to write
> university essays and I actually became quite loyal to the program
> because it bailed me out when I had no other program to write with. It's
> pretty useless for the advanced Office files we all receive from others,
> but it's spectacular with any new document you might want to produce.
> The bonus is that it's fast as heck in 2024. Hell, it was fast and light
> as heck even in 2002 or whatever year it was.

Essays in my school days generally involve a pen and 'blue book' for exams 
or a cheap manual typewriter in some cases. The first word processor I was 
exposed to was WordStar that was bundled on a CP/M system, over ten years 
later. It was serviceable as a programming editor. Vim was in the future 
and vi, prior to improvement, was primitive.

In later years any documentation I did was with Vim. The process was we 
would try to dig up a past document that was sort of like the new 
interface. I'd make notes on it, the tech writer would make it pretty, I 
would review it, rinse and repeat. Over time I became convinced the 
clients seldom read the final product anyway.

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#15713

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-29 07:17 -0500
Message-ID<w5bcP.212599$oR74.73428@fx16.iad>
In reply to#15710
On 2024-12-29 01:38, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 21:26:49 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
>> The only thing I've ever used Office for is essays and the occasional
>> presentation. I've said it before: even AbiWord is more than enough for
>> me. If I recall correctly, AbiWord had every feature I needed to write
>> university essays and I actually became quite loyal to the program
>> because it bailed me out when I had no other program to write with. It's
>> pretty useless for the advanced Office files we all receive from others,
>> but it's spectacular with any new document you might want to produce.
>> The bonus is that it's fast as heck in 2024. Hell, it was fast and light
>> as heck even in 2002 or whatever year it was.
> 
> Essays in my school days generally involve a pen and 'blue book' for exams
> or a cheap manual typewriter in some cases. The first word processor I was
> exposed to was WordStar that was bundled on a CP/M system, over ten years
> later. It was serviceable as a programming editor. Vim was in the future
> and vi, prior to improvement, was primitive.
> 
> In later years any documentation I did was with Vim. The process was we
> would try to dig up a past document that was sort of like the new
> interface. I'd make notes on it, the tech writer would make it pretty, I
> would review it, rinse and repeat. Over time I became convinced the
> clients seldom read the final product anyway.

I remember being in high school and talking about the latest 486 and 
dual-speed CD-ROM when my English teacher came up to me and asked me 
what was so exciting about that. He told me he was using some ancient 
technology (I don't remember which) and mentioned that the exam we just 
did was prepared on that. I was actually surprised to hear that because 
I recalled that printers in the 1980s other than PC ones were usually 
tiny daisy wheel ones. Either way, if that guy is still alive, I imagine 
he'd make a perfect Linux user because of his reluctance to change his 
equipment to follow trends.


-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

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#15716

FromGraham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk>
Date2024-12-29 13:19 +0000
Message-ID<vkri90$1058i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#15713
Andrzej Matuch wrote:

[snip]

> I was actually surprised to hear that because 
> I recalled that printers in the 1980s other than PC ones were usually 
> tiny daisy wheel ones. 

I had a daisy wheel printer.  Massive thing, beautifully made, with a 
chrome steel frame; used tractor feed paper, and produced very nice 
printed output.  But is was as noisy as a machine gun!  So I installed 
it in the front porch - which we never used anyway - and drilled a hole 
through the wall for power and the RS232 data cable.

I gave it away when I wanted something which would cope with simple 
graphics so got a dot-matrix printer - which was a bit quieter.


-- 
Graham J

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#15719

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-29 08:48 -0500
Message-ID<SqccP.125119$0O61.68299@fx15.iad>
In reply to#15716
On 2024-12-29 08:19, Graham J wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> I was actually surprised to hear that because I recalled that printers 
>> in the 1980s other than PC ones were usually tiny daisy wheel ones. 
> 
> I had a daisy wheel printer.  Massive thing, beautifully made, with a 
> chrome steel frame; used tractor feed paper, and produced very nice 
> printed output.  But is was as noisy as a machine gun!  So I installed 
> it in the front porch - which we never used anyway - and drilled a hole 
> through the wall for power and the RS232 data cable.
> 
> I gave it away when I wanted something which would cope with simple 
> graphics so got a dot-matrix printer - which was a bit quieter.

The first printer I owned was a 24-pin printer I got with my IBM PS/1. 
It was probably a lot quieter than what you used but still too 
annoyingly loud for my taste. I quite enjoyed how quiet inkjet was (even 
though I hated how frequently you had to get more ink) and then the 
laser printer.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

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#15724

Fromchrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid>
Date2024-12-29 08:02 -0600
Message-ID<2cl2nj1casbgtl1sgjt6480kvdga1qpclm@4ax.com>
In reply to#15719
Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Graham J wrote:
>> 
>> I had a daisy wheel printer.  Massive thing, beautifully made, with a 
>> chrome steel frame; used tractor feed paper, and produced very nice 
>> printed output.  But is was as noisy as a machine gun!  So I installed 
>> it in the front porch - which we never used anyway - and drilled a hole 
>> through the wall for power and the RS232 data cable.

That's awesome.   8)
 
>> I gave it away when I wanted something which would cope with simple 
>> graphics so got a dot-matrix printer - which was a bit quieter.
>
>The first printer I owned was a 24-pin printer I got with my IBM PS/1. 
>It was probably a lot quieter than what you used but still too 
>annoyingly loud for my taste.

Mine was an Epson JX-80.  It had only 9 pins, but it had a
near-letter-quality mode and also color!

-- 
"there are too many choices in some categories of computer hardware"
-  some dumb fsck, putting his ignorance on display

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#15725

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-29 09:08 -0500
Message-ID<FJccP.12947$G93a.4581@fx05.iad>
In reply to#15724
On 2024-12-29 09:02, chrisv wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
>> Graham J wrote:
>>>
>>> I had a daisy wheel printer.  Massive thing, beautifully made, with a
>>> chrome steel frame; used tractor feed paper, and produced very nice
>>> printed output.  But is was as noisy as a machine gun!  So I installed
>>> it in the front porch - which we never used anyway - and drilled a hole
>>> through the wall for power and the RS232 data cable.
> 
> That's awesome.   8)
>   
>>> I gave it away when I wanted something which would cope with simple
>>> graphics so got a dot-matrix printer - which was a bit quieter.
>>
>> The first printer I owned was a 24-pin printer I got with my IBM PS/1.
>> It was probably a lot quieter than what you used but still too
>> annoyingly loud for my taste.
> 
> Mine was an Epson JX-80.  It had only 9 pins, but it had a
> near-letter-quality mode and also color!

And I will bet that the toner cartridge (or whatever it is called) 
lasted forever. I never printed enough to figure out how long it lasts 
and eventually sold that printer for a measly $105 or so. I'm sure it 
was worth a lot more though.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

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#15735

FromMark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid>
Date2024-12-29 19:32 +0000
Message-ID<6771a3eb$10$3620715$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
In reply to#15719
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 08:48:34 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

[snip]

> The first printer I owned was a 24-pin printer I got with my IBM PS/1.
> It was probably a lot quieter than what you used but still too
> annoyingly loud for my taste. I quite enjoyed how quiet inkjet was (even
> though I hated how frequently you had to get more ink) and then the
> laser printer.

My first printer was an Epsom MX-80 (8-pin). At the time, I was in college 
and had an assignment to print a graph. The prior assignment was on A/D 
converters and led to a collection of 256 8-bit numbers. This assignment 
was to generate a graph from them. The school printer had only 7 pins, and 
was much harder to use than mine. Although I was allowed to do the 
assignment at home, I ended up learning both systems because I was helping 
a bunch of other students.

-- 
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." -- Blaise Pascal

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#15738

FromMark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid>
Date2024-12-29 19:46 +0000
Message-ID<6771a706$0$3474736$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
In reply to#15735
On 29 Dec 2024 19:32:59 GMT, Mark Lloyd wrote:


[snip]

> My first printer was an Epsom MX-80 (8-pin).

Correction: it was a 9-pin printer, but only 8 were used for bitmap 
graphics. I don't remember how line feed worked.

> At the time, I was in
> college and had an assignment to print a graph. The prior assignment was
> on A/D converters and led to a collection of 256 8-bit numbers. This
> assignment was to generate a graph from them. The school printer had
> only 7 pins, and was much harder to use than mine. Although I was
> allowed to do the assignment at home, I ended up learning both systems
> because I was helping a bunch of other students.



-- 
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." -- Blaise Pascal

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#15742

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-29 20:56 +0000
Message-ID<ltdrbiF7nkqU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#15713
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 07:17:32 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I remember being in high school and talking about the latest 486 and
> dual-speed CD-ROM when my English teacher came up to me and asked me
> what was so exciting about that. He told me he was using some ancient
> technology (I don't remember which) and mentioned that the exam we just
> did was prepared on that. I was actually surprised to hear that because
> I recalled that printers in the 1980s other than PC ones were usually
> tiny daisy wheel ones.

My hatred for printers goes way back. The products were laboratory pH 
meters and auto-titrators but they could print out the results. Every 
printer was different, dot matrix, daisy wheels, thermal, and so forth. We 
would send a gopher to ComputerLand to buy a printer, determine what it 
needed to print, and then send the gopher back to exchange it for another 
model. We legitimately bought enough from ComputerLand that they put up 
with the ruse. The worst were the little thermals but they were popular in 
labs. 

I was amazed when I plugged the USB Samsung into the Ubuntu box and it 
just worked. That definitely has not been my experience with printers.

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#15748

FromAndrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
Date2024-12-29 17:03 -0500
Message-ID<2HjcP.132640$0O61.22996@fx15.iad>
In reply to#15742
On 2024-12-29 15:56, rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Dec 2024 07:17:32 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
>> I remember being in high school and talking about the latest 486 and
>> dual-speed CD-ROM when my English teacher came up to me and asked me
>> what was so exciting about that. He told me he was using some ancient
>> technology (I don't remember which) and mentioned that the exam we just
>> did was prepared on that. I was actually surprised to hear that because
>> I recalled that printers in the 1980s other than PC ones were usually
>> tiny daisy wheel ones.
> 
> My hatred for printers goes way back. The products were laboratory pH
> meters and auto-titrators but they could print out the results. Every
> printer was different, dot matrix, daisy wheels, thermal, and so forth. We
> would send a gopher to ComputerLand to buy a printer, determine what it
> needed to print, and then send the gopher back to exchange it for another
> model. We legitimately bought enough from ComputerLand that they put up
> with the ruse. The worst were the little thermals but they were popular in
> labs.
> 
> I was amazed when I plugged the USB Samsung into the Ubuntu box and it
> just worked. That definitely has not been my experience with printers.

I actually had some trouble with my printer with Linux a couple of days 
ago. Unlike my previous Linux installations, it just wouldn't detect the 
damned thing. After a minute or so, I realized that I had changed my 
ISP's router a few months back and hadn't connected the printer to it 
since because my basement, where the printer is located, was flooded in 
August and we were waiting for it to be restored. A push-button setup 
later and it worked like a charm.

-- 
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
Telegram: @AndrzejMatuch

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#15887

FromPhysfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-31 23:32 -0600
Message-ID<vl2k0m$1lbtk$4@solani.org>
In reply to#15742
On 12/29/24 2:56 PM, rbowman wrote:
> I was amazed when I plugged the USB Samsung into the Ubuntu box and it
> just worked. That definitely has not been my experience with printers.



Huh.. My Canon pixma wouldn't work with Mint, which is a Ubuntu, during 
one whole day of trial and error.

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#15733

From-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
Date2024-12-29 13:21 -0500
Message-ID<vks3us$12a03$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#15710
On 12/29/24 1:38 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 21:26:49 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> 
>> The only thing I've ever used Office for is essays and the occasional
>> presentation. I've said it before: even AbiWord is more than enough for
>> me. If I recall correctly, AbiWord had every feature I needed to write
>> university essays and I actually became quite loyal to the program
>> because it bailed me out when I had no other program to write with. It's
>> pretty useless for the advanced Office files we all receive from others,
>> but it's spectacular with any new document you might want to produce.
>> The bonus is that it's fast as heck in 2024. Hell, it was fast and light
>> as heck even in 2002 or whatever year it was.
> 
> Essays in my school days generally involve a pen and 'blue book' for exams
> or a cheap manual typewriter in some cases. 

We are all very quickly dating ourselves to the pre-digital era.


> The first word processor I was
> exposed to was WordStar that was bundled on a CP/M system, over ten years
> later. It was serviceable as a programming editor. Vim was in the future
> and vi, prior to improvement, was primitive.


For mainframe based, I migrated to JOVE over VI, as it wasn't for 
programming and JOVE was IMO better suited for business communications.


> In later years any documentation I did was with Vim. The process was we
> would try to dig up a past document that was sort of like the new
> interface. I'd make notes on it, the tech writer would make it pretty, I
> would review it, rinse and repeat. Over time I became convinced the
> clients seldom read the final product anyway.

I'm oversimplifying, but as a broad sweeping statement, I'd say that 
monospaced fonts are better for writing code, whereas proportional fonts 
are better for human-based reading of narrative.


-hh

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#15728

FromKen Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com>
Date2024-12-29 07:41 -0700
Message-ID<non2njlqejlhbhce6ph5c5v4k9h1db0vfu@4ax.com>
In reply to#15701
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 15:07:39 -0500, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch>
wrote:

>On 2024-12-28 14:34, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 07:04:57 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 22:23:49 +0800, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 26/12/2024 4:39 am, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> As a programmer, I like to use powerful and versatile tools. That
>>>>> includes the ability to automate workflow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tools exist for this purpose, like odfpy for ISO 26300 files, which
>>>>> are the native format of LibreOffice. And LibreOffice itself can run
>>>>> Python code.
>>>>
>>>> My programming tasks has never ever needed to automate Office using
>>>> VBA.
>>>
>>> So your needs are fairly simple. That’s nothing to be ashamed of.
>> 
>> You do realize there is a whole world outside of Office?
>
>Yeah, it sometimes pains me that it is brought up as often as it is as 
>some sort of must-have piece of software. It suggests that people don't 
>do much other than open up Word and Excel.


Not must-have to me. I never open Word (I greatly prefer WordPerfect)
and open Excel very rarely.

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