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Groups > alt.comp.os.windows-11 > #16688 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-02-01 21:55 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-04-09 00:15 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 66 — 15 participants |
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Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-01 21:55 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-01 19:07 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-01 20:11 -0500
Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-02 03:24 +0000
Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-02-02 04:05 +0000
Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-02 07:19 -0500
Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-02-02 07:55 -0500
Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 23:22 +0000
Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-02 00:08 -0500
Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-02 13:57 +0000
Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 23:19 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-02-02 19:26 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-02 14:49 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-02 15:29 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-02-02 15:26 -0600
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-03 02:50 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-03 04:03 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2025-02-02 23:17 -0700
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-02-03 13:16 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 20:03 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-08 20:12 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-08 21:06 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-02 07:11 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 21:34 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-07 20:29 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 06:36 +0000
Kexec (and HyperV) (was: Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-08 08:44 +0000
Re: Kexec (and HyperV) Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-08 06:41 -0500
Re: Kexec (and HyperV) (was: Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 23:42 +0000
Re: Kexec (and HyperV) (was: Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-09 00:25 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-02-08 09:05 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 23:44 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 19:05 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-02-09 13:58 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-08 21:18 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 21:05 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-02-01 21:53 -0600
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-07 21:41 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 19:14 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-07 20:26 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-07 20:50 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-07 21:57 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-08 15:22 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 11:24 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-08 18:36 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 13:49 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 13:48 -0600
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-08 19:43 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-02-08 20:41 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-08 16:12 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-09 00:35 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-08 23:54 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-08 19:07 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-09 00:40 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-02-18 21:51 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-02-18 17:11 -0500
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-02-19 01:06 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-17 21:37 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-18 13:31 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-18 11:08 -0400
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-18 11:04 -0400
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-18 19:29 -0400
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-06-02 22:53 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-06-02 23:27 -0400
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-03-27 22:03 +0000
Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-09 00:15 +0000
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-01 21:55 +0000 |
| Subject | Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues |
| Message-ID | <vnm582$9u05$1@dont-email.me> |
Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
create new ones.
Microsoft passed this point a long time ago. Read this
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-24h2s-wild-ride-some-fixes-are-in-but-other-bugs-still-linger/>
and think: how many times have you heard of this sort of thing, just
in the past year? Some choice quotes:
When Microsoft rolled out another Windows 11 24H2 update for
January's Patch Tuesday, instead of fixing existing issues, the
update created more havoc, causing conflicts with audio,
Bluetooth, webcams, and more. But a preview update released on
Jan. 28 finally fixed several glitches -- both old and new.
But then qualifies this by saying:
But before you dive into the 2024 update, know that you may run
into some problems and conflicts. The new version has been plagued
by bugs that could prevent you from using Windows reliably and
effectively.
So fix some problems, add new ones. Conclusion:
The number of bugs in Windows 11 24H2 also seems greater than in
past annual Windows updates. The ongoing spread of one bug after
another and Microsoft's need to stall the update for many people
both point to a problem with this latest version.
Not the first time Windows has had this sort of trouble! It has become
a regular occurrence the past few years.
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-01 19:07 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <9pdtpjdb64l7nitvc1vrdh4dqmank92caq@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #16688 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that >some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable >threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just >create new ones. > >Microsoft passed this point a long time ago. Read this ><https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-24h2s-wild-ride-some-fixes-are-in-but-other-bugs-still-linger/> >and think: how many times have you heard of this sort of thing, just >in the past year? Some choice quotes: > > When Microsoft rolled out another Windows 11 24H2 update for > January's Patch Tuesday, instead of fixing existing issues, the > update created more havoc, causing conflicts with audio, > Bluetooth, webcams, and more. But a preview update released on > Jan. 28 finally fixed several glitches -- both old and new. > >But then qualifies this by saying: > > But before you dive into the 2024 update, know that you may run > into some problems and conflicts. The new version has been plagued > by bugs that could prevent you from using Windows reliably and > effectively. > >So fix some problems, add new ones. Conclusion: > > The number of bugs in Windows 11 24H2 also seems greater than in > past annual Windows updates. The ongoing spread of one bug after > another and Microsoft's need to stall the update for many people > both point to a problem with this latest version. > >Not the first time Windows has had this sort of trouble! It has become >a regular occurrence the past few years. Good reasons to not use Winblows. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-01 20:11 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vnmgol$c1ji$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16689 |
On Sat, 2/1/2025 7:07 PM, Joel wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Many years ago, a software engineer named Fred Brooks predicted that
>> some systems could get so complex that they would exceed a manageable
>> threshold of complexity, where every attempt to fix a bug would just
>> create new ones.
>>
>> Microsoft passed this point a long time ago. Read this
>> <https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-24h2s-wild-ride-some-fixes-are-in-but-other-bugs-still-linger/>
>> and think: how many times have you heard of this sort of thing, just
>> in the past year?
>
> Good reasons to not use Winblows.
>
The 24H2 installed on the machine across the way from me,
without incident, about a week or two ago. There was nothing
of note, like new features that I can remember off hand.
My Daily Driver is still running 23H2.
And my Insider Disk is running 25H2, and it doesn't look
all that much different than 23H2.
All the OSes have a CoPilot icon, including the Win10 installs.
And, whether you have an MSA or not.
The CoPilot gave me a real golf whiff answer yesterday. I could
not believe an AI could write an answer like that. It did not
say "Sorry, I don't know the answer". But when I asked it about
the NTFS file system, rather than answer the question, it told
me to "get a hex editor and figure it out for yourself". Now,
isn't that why we invented AI ??? So... helpful. I would not
have thought of that, using my hex editor and reverse engineering
NTFS. I suppose the next answer will be "why don't you drive
to the Public Library and look that up, pal?".
I'm still waiting for my flying car (Jetsons). It will
have stubby wings, and tilt to one side as it goes around
corners.
Oh, and Facebook has taken the block off Distrowatch :-) Whew.
Who knew this timeline would have a happy ending. Single handedly,
Facebook almost wiped out the Year Of The Linux Desktop.
Paul
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 03:24 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) |
| Message-ID | <vnmohh$d90b$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16690 |
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:11:47 -0500, Paul wrote: > Single handedly, Facebook almost wiped out the Year Of The Linux > Desktop. We have already had over two years of the Linux Decktop. The Linux-powered Steam Deck is the king of handheld PC gaming. None of its Windows-running competitors even comes close.
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| From | Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 04:05 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) |
| Message-ID | <m0897cFschsU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #16693 |
On 02/02/2025 03:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > The Linux-powered Steam Deck is the king of handheld PC gaming. None of > its Windows-running competitors even comes close. That's a matter of opinion. The steam deck probably wins on value for money and on number of sales but there are several significantly more powerful handheld gaming devices which run Windows. For those people with the spare cash one of the more expensive, more powerful Windows ones may be king because it has better performance. Personally I wouldn't spend that much money on something that's just for games. -- Brian Gregory (in England).
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| From | CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 07:19 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) |
| Message-ID | <DpJnP.1313901$2xE6.947642@fx18.iad> |
| In reply to | #16695 |
On 2025-02-01 11:05 p.m., Brian Gregory wrote: > On 02/02/2025 03:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> The Linux-powered Steam Deck is the king of handheld PC gaming. None of >> its Windows-running competitors even comes close. > > That's a matter of opinion. > The steam deck probably wins on value for money and on number of sales > but there are several significantly more powerful handheld gaming > devices which run Windows. For those people with the spare cash one of > the more expensive, more powerful Windows ones may be king because it > has better performance. > > Personally I wouldn't spend that much money on something that's just for > games. I would get the Windows ones myself since my library is across several platforms. I also like to be assured that all my games run well, not well enough. I was very disappointed by how poorly Black Mesa ran on Linux compared to Windows. -- CrudeSausage Gab: @CrudeSausage Telegram: @CrudeSausage Unapologetic paleoconservative
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| From | Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 07:55 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) |
| Message-ID | <vnnq09$m7s4$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16695 |
Brian Gregory wrote this post while blinking in Morse code: > On 02/02/2025 03:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> The Linux-powered Steam Deck is the king of handheld PC gaming. None of >> its Windows-running competitors even comes close. > > That's a matter of opinion. > The steam deck probably wins on value for money and on number of sales > but there are several significantly more powerful handheld gaming > devices which run Windows. Probably because they must be more powerful to support Windows :-D > For those people with the spare cash one of > the more expensive, more powerful Windows ones may be king because it > has better performance. > > Personally I wouldn't spend that much money on something that's just for > games. Supposedly the Nintendo switch runs FreeBSD with a proprietary kernel. Don't quote me on that. -- The fact that it works is immaterial. -- L. Ogborn
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-07 23:22 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) |
| Message-ID | <vo64jv$3mvh2$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16695 |
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 04:05:00 +0000, Brian Gregory wrote: > On 02/02/2025 03:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > >> The Linux-powered Steam Deck is the king of handheld PC gaming. None of >> its Windows-running competitors even comes close. > > That's a matter of opinion. Likely also a matter of market share. Valve is holding its cards close to its chest, but it looks like the Deck sells maybe 1½ million units per year. > The steam deck probably wins on value for money and on number of sales > but there are several significantly more powerful handheld gaming > devices which run Windows. Yes, but the user experience (notwithstanding the promise of greater compatibility) is poorer on these more expensive, less versatile machines. The Steam Deck, being Linux, can run emulators for other gaming platforms, and it seems about half of Steam Deck users take advantage of this.
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 00:08 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) |
| Message-ID | <vnmul5$i0u7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16693 |
On Sat, 2/1/2025 10:24 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:11:47 -0500, Paul wrote: > >> Single handedly, Facebook almost wiped out the Year Of The Linux >> Desktop. > > We have already had over two years of the Linux Decktop. > > The Linux-powered Steam Deck is the king of handheld PC gaming. None of > its Windows-running competitors even comes close. > Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide - January 2025 Windows 71.91% OS X 15.02% Unknown 7.43% Linux 3.71% Chrome OS 1.92% FreeBSD 0% Now, myself, I'm hoping I get a new computer based on <Unknown>. I suppose there are a few people who don't know what their OS is :-) "Unknown performs well, and presents a light light load to the hardware." Paul
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| From | Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 13:57 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) |
| Message-ID | <vnntki$n9se$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16697 |
On 2025-02-02 05:08, Paul wrote: > > Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide - January 2025 > Windows > 71.91% > OS X > 15.02% > Unknown > 7.43% > Linux > 3.71% > Chrome OS > 1.92% > FreeBSD > 0% > > Now, myself, I'm hoping I get a new computer based on <Unknown>. > I suppose there are a few people who don't know what their OS is :-) > "Unknown performs well, and presents a light light load to the hardware." I suspect that these stats are derived from web-browsing, collected by firms such as StatCounter, and thus that the "unknown" percentage is actually of those people who have locked down their PCs and browsers well enough to give nothing away about their system. -- Fake news kills! I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-07 23:19 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The Dominance Of Linux (was Re: Dimdows Decay Syndrome Continues) |
| Message-ID | <vo64e8$3mvh2$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16697 |
On Sun, 2 Feb 2025 00:08:53 -0500, Paul wrote: > Desktop Operating System Market Share Worldwide - January 2025 You’re not getting these from Statcounter, are you? <https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-popular-is-windows-11-statcounter-cant-tell-you-heres-why/>
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| From | Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 19:26 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <679fc6fa$0$3620714$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> |
| In reply to | #16690 |
On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:11:47 -0500, Paul wrote: [snip] > All the OSes have a CoPilot icon, including the Win10 installs. And, > whether you have an MSA or not. I have CoPilot in Edge on Linux. [snip]
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 14:49 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <bqivpjtu5kr61ij0jkm6q5qc86siug98k5@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #16733 |
Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote: >On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:11:47 -0500, Paul wrote: > >> All the OSes have a CoPilot icon, including the Win10 installs. And, >> whether you have an MSA or not. > >I have CoPilot in Edge on Linux. I could use Edge for that, but I have a Web app instead, see: https://docs.webcatalog.io/en/articles/9943998-does-webcatalog-desktop-support-linux It's no longer fully supported but I'm using it, it's $4.99 a month for unlimited use, free for a certain number of apps. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 15:29 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <vnokk4$rpp8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16733 |
On Sun, 2/2/2025 2:26 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote: > On Sat, 1 Feb 2025 20:11:47 -0500, Paul wrote: > > [snip] > >> All the OSes have a CoPilot icon, including the Win10 installs. And, >> whether you have an MSA or not. > > I have CoPilot in Edge on Linux. > > [snip] > Makes sense, since it uses a datacenter for computation, and anything that can run a webpage is good enough. You should be aware, that they're de-tuning it as we speak. The answers are coming back faster, and the last answer I got, I need not bother wasting time any more on asking it questions. Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more. AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's trashed the Internet. Good work. Even if you paid $200 a month for this, I doubt anything would change for you. Paul
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| From | chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 15:26 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <0bovpjpt3km480vgcli5abejc0e5sebtv0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #16736 |
Paul wrote: >Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing >a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were >I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more. > >AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's >trashed the Internet. Good work. It's not done until it's trashed human society. Eventually we'll have no reason to think, at all. -- 'He thinks "open" means bug free.' - Hadron Quark, lying shamelessly
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| From | Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-03 02:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vnpatp$vb0k$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16738 |
On 2025-02-02 21:26, chrisv wrote: > Paul wrote: > >> Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing >> a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were >> I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more. >> >> AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's >> trashed the Internet. Good work. > > It's not done until it's trashed human society. Eventually we'll have > no reason to think, at all. That's nonsense ... It's like saying that because we have calculators we don't need to be able to do any mental arithmetic, but you always need to be able to check that the result you get is reasonable to be sure that you haven't miskeyed something while entering the calculation. Or it's like saying that because we have navigation apps no-one will need to read maps or think about what the app is telling them to do. Remember the German couple who drove off the end of a pier, and, IMS, drowned, because their navigation app told them to?! Or the Euro continental lorry drivers who enter "Gibraltar" into their nav apps and end up in a tiny English village that happens to have the same name?! Didn't any penny drop when they had to take a Channel ferry? Etc, etc. -- Fake news kills! I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-03 04:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <m0atfuFahbbU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #16747 |
On Mon, 3 Feb 2025 02:50:31 +0000, Java Jive wrote: > Remember the German couple who drove off the end of a pier, and, IMS, > drowned, because their navigation app told them to?! Or the Euro > continental lorry drivers who enter "Gibraltar" into their nav apps and > end up in a tiny English village that happens to have the same name?! > Didn't any penny drop when they had to take a Channel ferry? Etc, etc. There have been several fatalities in the US from blindly following directions. Often it's nothing as blatant as driving off a bridge but the GPS shows an unmaintained road that is the shortest route. Bad choices follow. https://www.oregonlive.com/editors/2013/04/ kim_familys_fatal_oregon_journ.html I have been through that area -- in the summer with a full tank of gas. You're lulled into a false sense of security since it's a decent paved road to a launch area on the Rogue River. After you cross the river it's all twisty gravel roads with very little in the way of markings.
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| From | Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-02 23:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <vnpn15$14p37$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16747 |
On 2/2/2025 7:50 PM, Java Jive wrote: > On 2025-02-02 21:26, chrisv wrote: >> Paul wrote: >> >>> Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing >>> a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were >>> I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more. >>> >>> AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's >>> trashed the Internet. Good work. >> >> It's not done until it's trashed human society. Eventually we'll have >> no reason to think, at all. > > That's nonsense ... It's like saying that because we have calculators > we don't need to be able to do any mental arithmetic, but you always > need to be able to check that the result you get is reasonable to be > sure that you haven't miskeyed something while entering the calculation. > Or it's like saying that because we have navigation apps no-one will > need to read maps or think about what the app is telling them to do. > Remember the German couple who drove off the end of a pier, and, IMS, > drowned, because their navigation app told them to?! Or the Euro > continental lorry drivers who enter "Gibraltar" into their nav apps and > end up in a tiny English village that happens to have the same name?! > Didn't any penny drop when they had to take a Channel ferry? Etc, etc. As best I only see, a significant portion of the younger generations can neither do simple arithmetic nor 1-step logical deductions (or the informal equivalents or approximations). In other words, they cannot verify or validate much of the information presented to them. I see, as a result, such moves as not accepting cash at many stories. I asked an owner of a fast food place why. The answer: The schools didn't teach them arithmetic and I think they are too old to learn! I also recall an experience a few years ago. I selected some supplies at a store in Marina del Rey (part of greater LA) and approached the cash register where a vacant looking 20 something young lady was the cashier. She laboriously rings up the items and the total comes to $19.99. I take out my wallet, hand her a $20 bill and apologize for not having anything smaller. She says nothing, does not crack a smile, and remains frozen until the register tells her to give me a penny back. Still no reaction. So you really think we, collectively, will be able to profit from information that allows us to double check our computers? These are the same folks who are frightened by vaccines and community health. (I know there is a small number of people who have predictable poor reactions, but they're generally not the ones spouting conspiracy theories.) The promise that connectivity (the internet) would improve society and its human inhabitants has been shown false. Rather, it has led to intellectually laziness and polarization. Non-vetted results are repeat as gospel and we are all manipulated and exploited. The point is that the vast majority of us are entrenched in this madness and our brain's off switch has been thrown. We do not regain rationality when presented with quality information unless we agree with it before it is presented to us. When I say "we" I included all of us who have spent our lives using our brain; we all seem to have these blind spots where we would rather believe than think. -- Jeff Barnett
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| From | Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-03 13:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vnqfjl$19e3p$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #16752 |
On 2025-02-03 06:17, Jeff Barnett wrote: > On 2/2/2025 7:50 PM, Java Jive wrote: >> On 2025-02-02 21:26, chrisv wrote: >>> Paul wrote: >>> >>>> Similarly, the AI doing the Google searches, is doing >>>> a shit job, and I'm now looking at a situation were >>>> I don't get any help at all from the Internet any more. >>>> >>>> AI is definitely a "mission accomplished" thing. It's >>>> trashed the Internet. Good work. >>> >>> It's not done until it's trashed human society. Eventually we'll have >>> no reason to think, at all. >> >> That's nonsense ... It's like saying that because we have >> calculators we don't need to be able to do any mental arithmetic, but >> you always need to be able to check that the result you get is >> reasonable to be sure that you haven't miskeyed something while >> entering the calculation. Or it's like saying that because we have >> navigation apps no-one will need to read maps or think about what the >> app is telling them to do. Remember the German couple who drove off >> the end of a pier, and, IMS, drowned, because their navigation app >> told them to?! Or the Euro continental lorry drivers who enter >> "Gibraltar" into their nav apps and end up in a tiny English village >> that happens to have the same name?! Didn't any penny drop when they >> had to take a Channel ferry? Etc, etc. > > As best I only see, a significant portion of the younger generations can > neither do simple arithmetic nor 1-step logical deductions (or the > informal equivalents or approximations). In other words, they cannot > verify or validate much of the information presented to them. That's not a generational thing, there are people like that in every generation. > I see, as > a result, such moves as not accepting cash at many stories. > > I asked an owner of a fast food place why. The answer: The schools > didn't teach them arithmetic and I think they are too old to learn! I > also recall an experience a few years ago. I selected some supplies at a > store in Marina del Rey (part of greater LA) and approached the cash > register where a vacant looking 20 something young lady was the cashier. > She laboriously rings up the items and the total comes to $19.99. I take > out my wallet, hand her a $20 bill and apologize for not having anything > smaller. She says nothing, does not crack a smile, and remains frozen > until the register tells her to give me a penny back. Still no reaction. Again, there are dumb-asses in every generation. > So you really think we, collectively, will be able to profit from > information that allows us to double check our computers? My post to which you are replying gave examples of what can happen if we don't. > These are the > same folks who are frightened by vaccines and community health. (I know > there is a small number of people who have predictable poor reactions, > but they're generally not the ones spouting conspiracy theories.) Yes, there's one of those living near to me, but, at a guess, he's in he's 80s, so, again, not a generational thing. [His wife, a nice, kind old dear, had a severe stroke a week or two after having a covid vaccine and is now mentally much impaired. Understandably, but most probably incorrectly, he links the vaccine and the stroke, whereas in truth she may well have had the stroke even if she had not had the vaccine beforehand. What happened to her is tragic, and they both deserve every sympathy, but in all probability the two events are unrelated except by coincidence.] > The promise that connectivity (the internet) would improve society and > its human inhabitants has been shown false. Rather, it has led to > intellectually laziness and polarization. Non-vetted results are repeat > as gospel and we are all manipulated and exploited. Again, not a generational thing, people used to be just as undiscriminating reading newspaper reports and watching TV reports. The thing that the internet has changed is the speed of it all. > The point is that > the vast majority of us are entrenched in this madness and our brain's > off switch has been thrown. > > We do not regain rationality when presented with quality information > unless we agree with it before it is presented to us. When I say "we" I > included all of us who have spent our lives using our brain; we all seem > to have these blind spots where we would rather believe than think. The problem has always been compromising between saving mental effort - so that you don't go through the laborious process of reinventing the wheel every time you need to use one, you just reuse what is already known - and assessing new information whose usefulness is as yet unknown. No person or the wider society of which he/she is part could ever make progress at either extreme of rethinking everything all the time or taking everything new as 'good' without questioning it, the best path forward has always been a compromise between those two extremes. The internet has made this problem more obvious and thus magnified its apparent importance, but it's always been a problem. -- Fake news kills! I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk
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| From | Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-02-07 20:03 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <13bdqjhojfhbvtrdci2m5ua85aahqog0mc@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #16690 |
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote: >The CoPilot gave me a real golf whiff answer yesterday. I could >not believe an AI could write an answer like that. It did not >say "Sorry, I don't know the answer". But when I asked it about >the NTFS file system, rather than answer the question, it told >me to "get a hex editor and figure it out for yourself". Now, >isn't that why we invented AI ??? So... helpful. I would not >have thought of that, using my hex editor and reverse engineering >NTFS. I suppose the next answer will be "why don't you drive >to the Public Library and look that up, pal?". https://i.imgur.com/L71761l.png My take: it's pretty typical M$. They aren't gonna let their AI bot give you that info, but then again it does know that at the end of the day, nothing can prevent reverse engineering, it's even a necessity with obsolete systems to emulate, for example, I'm reasonably sure if I pirate the original Super Mario Bros. NES game, in an emulator, Nintendo will let it slide. -- Joel W. Crump Amendment XIV Section 1. [...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
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