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Re: Scary AI

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Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> On 4/8/2025 4:57 PM, Chris wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>> So, no, AI is not conscious. The more intriguing question
>>> for me is whether it's possible for humans to be conscious. :)
>> 
>> You can't argue than an AI is not conscious while at the same time asking
>> whether humans are conscious.
>> 
> 
>    Why not? 

Because, if you can't objectively describe what a specific attribute is you
cannot arguably say that something doesn't have it. i.e. "what is colour?"
"I don't know, but I can tell you that is not red." 

> AI is not conscious. It's responsive software.
> Human consciousness is another issue. I'm partially being
> provocative, 

Yes, I did appreciate that. 

> but I put it that way because I don't think
> we're nearly so conscious as we believe. We're mostly on
> automatic. So how dependable is the judgement of people
> whose thoughts and values are mostly knee-jerk reactions?
> How capable are we to recognize consciousness?

I'm not arguing that we do know what consciousness is, btw. You may be
right on that front. 

Also there's an issue with the term Artificial Intelligence. It is commonly
used to mean a whole spectrum of things from very simple probability models
to ultimate self-aware replicants. 

Computer AI is very much at the simple probabilistic end of the spectrum.
You're talking about the other end of the spectrum which may or may not
ever exist. Although, many people act like it's just around the corner. 

>   That gets into more complicated questions, though.
> If you believe in scientific materialism then you might
> believe that consciousness is an emergent quality, arising
> from chemical reactions in the brain. In that case it's
> not out of the question to posit that machines might have
> the capacity for consciousness in the same way that
> humans do. In that case, AI might be highly conscious while
> a magic 8 ball would be slightly cocnscious (since it responds
> with unpredictable answers to queries).
> 
>   I'm not a scientific materialist. I regard it as a thoroughly
> untenable way to look at the nature of experience. Science
> can't accept mind or even life as such, because those things
> can't be measured empirically. 

I mean there is a whole field of science looking at life and has done for
hundreds of years - biology - so that's an odd take. 

> But if you accept mind as
> a something not arising from matter, 

Where else would it arise from?

> then it's sensible to
> posit that mind is primary and could never be generated by
> hardware, or by biological processes.
> 
>   That may seem odd at first, but look at what science posits:
> Lots of atoms, over billions of years, accidentally ended up
> as amino acids, then DNA, then complex, communal systems
> of cells, which spend all of their energy on maintaining their
> own integrity as distinct entities, which implies will. Yet it all
> happened willy nilly. And the incredibly complicated balance that
> maintains these living systems is also happening by accident.

None of what you describe is an "accident". We simply cannot fathom the
power that billions of years has. 

>    Further, if that's the case then we're
> simply accidental bio-robots and thus have no capacity to
> reflect on these things in the first place. 

And yet we do and have done for millennia. 

> The theory negates
> our capacity to have a theory. 

Er...

> Our seeming consciousness and
> thoughts could only be chemical reactions in that view.

The lack of chemical reactions is death and therefore no mind. So, yes the
mind is function of us being alive which requires us to be bound by the
limits of the physical sciences (physics, chemistry and biology). 

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Scary AI Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-04-08 16:26 +0100
  Re: Scary AI "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-04-08 11:45 -0400
  Re: Scary AI Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-08 12:39 -0400
    Re: Scary AI Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-04-08 19:07 +0100
      Re: Scary AI Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-08 14:45 -0400
        Re: Scary AI Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-04-08 20:35 +0100
          Re: Scary AI jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> - 2025-04-09 14:01 -0500
        Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 20:57 +0000
          Re: Scary AI Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-08 17:16 -0400
            Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 19:53 +0000
              Re: Scary AI Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-09 16:47 -0400
                Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 12:23 +0000
                Re: Scary AI Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-11 13:31 -0400
                Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 02:30 +0000
                Re: Scary AI Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-13 07:49 -0400
                Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 13:08 +0000
                Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 02:38 +0000
            Re: Scary AI Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2025-04-18 01:40 +0300
              Re: Scary AI Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-17 20:22 -0400
                Re: Scary AI Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2025-04-18 02:12 +0000
                Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-18 06:44 +0000
                Re: Scary AI Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2025-04-18 14:34 +0300
      Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-08 20:46 +0000
        Re: Scary AI Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2025-04-08 22:48 +0100
          Re: Scary AI Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 09:50 +0000
    Re: Scary AI occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2025-04-18 16:45 +0200
  Re: Scary AI Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-04-09 05:29 +0200
  Re: Scary AI Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2025-04-18 01:02 +0300

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