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Groups > alt.binaries.3d.poser > #16465
| Subject | Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.binaries.3d.poser |
| References | (11 earlier) <5edc6aae@LostBBS> <5edfde74$1@LostBBS> <YuOdneAhq7kZa0LDnZ2dnUU7-cPNnZ2d@giganews.com> <5ee023f0$1@LostBBS> <yJSdnSs386n9u33DnZ2dnUU7-XnNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| From | McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> |
| Message-ID | <5ee05e03@LostBBS> (permalink) |
| Organization | None |
| Date | 2020-06-09 23:13 -0500 |
They will be grubbing for the headcount, of course. How many heads are doing this very thin slice of the 3D Graphics *HOME* segment, as opposed to how many GAMERS are squabbing over scarfing up the latest bestest graphics board? The gamers win that one hands down. Numbers win every time. Gotta make a living! I do static images because its what my rig can handle without burning up. Literally. My poor ol Core Duo Quadcore has been left sitting in the dust! We'll see how 8 cores/16 threads hold up in todays world :P On 6/9/2020 7:16 PM, Dana Haywood wrote: > As a consumer, who do you think NVidia going to market to? Hobbyist > people with Daz Studio or Poser ..or to people who think it is their > life mission to have the highest kill count in whatever game ;) To > achieve photoreal, GPU is needed because we saw the limit of what the > CPU capable of..so having a rig that capable of performance for game > also applies to static images as well :P) > > On 6/9/2020 05:06 PM, Stephen wrote: >> For me, when I'm rendering animations, fps DOES make a difference but >> when I'm working on a 'static' image, I mostly care about achieving >> something as close to photorealism as I can get. >> I know that graphics RAM and speed are used for both games and >> rendering still images. I guess it's just their marketing scheme that >> bugs me. It makes me want to scream, "I'm not goofing off playing >> games! I'm an old man trying to do some serious artwork here!!" :o) >> >> That is - unless I AM goofing off and paying a game of course. <LOL>!! >> >> >> >> "Dana Haywood" <no.way@jos> wrote in message >> news:YuOdneAhq7kZa0LDnZ2dnUU7-cPNnZ2d@giganews.com... >>> Well, Stephen, think about it. >>> >>> What is the most important thing for a gaming rig? FPS. Going 50-60 >>> FPS is ideal for most games, and it becomes more challenging when >>> trying to render more complicated geometry, textures, render engines >>> like IRay, etc. >>> >>> Before GPU rendering became a thing, we had to rely on Memory and >>> CPU. Now, GPU rendering is a thing, so the more it can handle >>> geometry, textures, material (different than textures apparently), >>> light, and whatever else I see when IRay goes off, the better it >>> performs. >>> >>> Even without GPU rendering, we relied on fast processors and high >>> amounts of RAM. The same is true with a gaming rig. >>> >>> So like I said earlier, A Gaming Rig and Image Producing one are not >>> that different. Now for servers, yea, those have different >>> requirements, but gaming and rendering system generally align more or >>> less. :) >>> >>> On 6/9/2020 12:09 PM, Stephen wrote: >>>> BTW, I've also noticed on the NVidia site that even their highest >>>> quality boards are sold as great GAMING tools and the benchmarks are >>>> all geared to games and the number of fps they can do. I once asked >>>> them why they do that because I want a board for serious superior >>>> image production, not gaming. They just said it's the same thing and >>>> left it at that. :o/ >>>> I think you have to just ignore their sales pitch and go for one >>>> that will meet you own specifications. Rich kids who do nothing but >>>> play games all day must be where they make the most money so they'll >>>> just keep selling them that way. >>>> >>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:5edc6aae@LostBBS... >>>>> ALSO: I now have ALL items from THREE orders at Walmart.com IN >>>>> HOUSE! Except ONE thing. The motherboard. The seller of that >>>>> Gigabyte mobo cancelled it. They did NOT have one in stock. So >>>>> what the F*** did you SELL it to me for!@#RY()(@) ARRRGH! So till >>>>> 3am I looked and looked and looked. Then back at Walmart.com, ONE >>>>> HIT comes up for any X570 AMD chipset and RYZEN 7 3000 series cpu. >>>>> One for an ASUS motherboard. I kept looking though, cause of the >>>>> name of the mobo. >>>>> ASUS - TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI). TuF Gaming. Right. I want a >>>>> render beest, not a game toy. Then I exasperatedly read the specs >>>>> and features. Ho! Its a better mobo by a good bit than the >>>>> Gigabyte I was so worked up over. Pushed the "PAY" button. So >>>>> now I'm waiting for the TuF Gamer motherboard. Yep. Sure really >>>>> am. :o\ yes, everything else IS here. 32gb DDR4, check! AMD >>>>> Ryzen 7 3000X, check! Yeah, just need the 3rd of The Main Three. >>>>> I just hope this doesn't go the way of that first one. If it does, >>>>> me and Walmart.com are going to have some ernest words about THEIR >>>>> not having any parts IN STOCK. Suddenly they are becoming less >>>>> than useless.... >>>>> McG. >>>>> >>>>> On 6/6/2020 10:03 PM, Stephen wrote: >>>>>> I've never had any luck installing and using DSON. If I could buy >>>>>> a G8 >>>>>> figure and just install and use it like I did with V4/M4, that >>>>>> would be >>>>>> great. I do NOT want to fart around with some confusing DS to Poser >>>>>> bridge though. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:5ed9e16f$1@LostBBS... >>>>>>> Why in the UNIVERSE would DAZ's opinion in what POSER is able to >>>>>>> read >>>>>>> directly, important even to an ANT, or something equally, dismally >>>>>>> removed from all things 3D ??? IT DOESN'T !!!! LOL! >>>>>>> They have even OFFERED to help Poser with that very thing. And S-M >>>>>>> adamantly refused. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, I see it as a matter of survival. I LIKE what I have seen in >>>>>>> the Genesis 3 and 8 Figures. Though I hate DS the program, I don't >>>>>>> hate the CONTENT. And, about ME, DAZ3D has known this from the >>>>>>> start. >>>>>>> IF DS became something that *I* personally deem USABLE, I will >>>>>>> use it. >>>>>>> I keep it installed, just hate using it. Sooo. I know exactly what >>>>>>> G3 and G8 are like. :) And there are a lot of people that are >>>>>>> clamoring for POSER to be made able to load and use all the DAZ >>>>>>> Figures directly. >>>>>>> Jenn Blake blew up about it. Well, um, THAT lit a different >>>>>>> fuse. You >>>>>>> reading me still, Jenn? >>>>>>> McG. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6/4/2020 9:03 PM, Stephen wrote: >>>>>>>> That would go a long way to getting me to buy a DAZ figure past >>>>>>>> V4 but >>>>>>>> don't hold your breath on DAZ okaying that. :o( >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:5ed6cc01$1@LostBBS... >>>>>>>>> Sooo that is greater use of the hardware. DS still lags >>>>>>>>> severely in >>>>>>>>> keeping up. Same old group of DEVS, and same group of programs to >>>>>>>>> work on. >>>>>>>>> Poser. Yeah, one program, one TEAM. I hope we can kick and >>>>>>>>> scream >>>>>>>>> and beleaguer their BOSSES into ok'ing getting the module to >>>>>>>>> load DS >>>>>>>>> content directly. SOON. NOT DAZ SOOOOOON either. :D >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 6/2/2020 2:58 PM, Dana Haywood wrote: >>>>>>>>>> It is worthwhile if an application supports it. SLI and >>>>>>>>>> CrossFire in a >>>>>>>>>> nutshell: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Video card: 1 GPU, 6GB VRAM, 1000 CUDA cores. >>>>>>>>>> Video card: 1 GPU, 6GB VRAM, 1000 CUDA cores, >>>>>>>>>> SLI'd, the app will see it as 2 GPU chips, 12GB of VRAM, and >>>>>>>>>> 2000 CUDA >>>>>>>>>> cores. Meaning, it will process graphics faster. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The problem currently with Daz and IRay, it doesn't have the >>>>>>>>>> functionality..yet. So when it does an IRay render, it will >>>>>>>>>> load the >>>>>>>>>> scene on both cards and run it. If it doesn't fit on the first >>>>>>>>>> card, >>>>>>>>>> only the second card will run it. If it doesn't fit on either >>>>>>>>>> of them, >>>>>>>>>> it will do a CPU render. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/2020 08:52 PM, Spamster wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I don't know much about SLI, as I've never really though it was >>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile, so I'm not sure about how it does or does not work. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/2020 10:39 PM, Dana Haywood wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> That why sometime in the future I am thinking of getting >>>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>>> nvidia rtx card. To my understanding Daz Studio/Iray doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>> do SLI, >>>>>>>>>>>> but...I can dedicate it to specific cores. So..if one card >>>>>>>>>>>> bogged >>>>>>>>>>>> down from "Displaying"...I can have another just for >>>>>>>>>>>> rendering.:) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/2020 11:45 AM, Spamster wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds great. IMO, the bottleneck in your system will be >>>>>>>>>>>>> the video >>>>>>>>>>>>> card, which is used by games and 3D apps. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/2020 12:42 PM, McGrandpa wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's pretty similar to this stuff I just ordered. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMD Ryzen 7 3700X & Wraith Prism cooling >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HyperX Fury 32GB 2666MHz DDR4 CL16 DIMM (Kit of 2) Black >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gigabyte AMD AM4 X570 AORUS ELITE WIFI Motherboard (I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> demand SIX >>>>>>>>>>>>>> SATA ports dammit! This is THE one that I found that could >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be sent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to me.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neither of our CPU's has onboard graphics. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both our CPU's have some serious ass kickery potential! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 32 gigs of DDR4 is nothing to sneeze at, not when I have been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8 gigs of DDR2 (PC800) RAM for 12 years! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will simply add my existing case, power supply, handful >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of SSDs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the BluRay burner, and the old Video card. BFG built >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it good >>>>>>>>>>>>>> man. Real good! Its still kicking butt! I bet this will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> perk up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my gaming too, as well as all the 3D stuff :oD >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The CPU arrives this Friday, then the RAM on Tuesday the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9th, then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the mobo Monday the 15th. In the meantime, I should start >>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloading all the drivers and utilities I'll be needing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the motherboard should come with disk(s). When it starts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up, it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be the first time all these SSD's and USB devices get >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to run >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at full speed! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, we'll see, soon enough! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> McG. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/1/2020 9:15 AM, Stephen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know you said you want to keep your old case but one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has made computing nicer for me is a new case by a company >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called "Be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quiet", and it really is. It actually took me a while to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get used >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kept thinking it had shut down when I wasn't looking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. :o) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other than that, here's my system: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nothing spectacular really... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:5ed43956$1@LostBBS... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it is of computer parts for building myself a new >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rig. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even put it inside this old case, so it will fool anyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wanting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to ride >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me about the spending of my money. Yeah I got relatives >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really that way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking Ryzen 7 octal core, a gigabyte mobo "ultra >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> durable" like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this 12 year old one. I do not need or want 'SLI' or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Crossfire'. Just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a single PCIe x16 slot, some other little PCIe slots. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *LEAST* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 64gigs of system RAM! And will I need a different power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supply? Or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will the 750W single 12v rail one do well? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So anyway, thought I'd bounce ideas around with you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folks, see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snowball up! :) Thanks in advance, too guys! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> McG. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >
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ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-05-31 18:10 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-05-31 16:18 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-01 01:07 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-05-31 20:58 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-01 01:10 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-01 10:47 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-01 11:42 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-01 14:45 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-01 21:06 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-04 08:28 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! "Stephen" <sbriggs99@gmail.com> - 2020-06-04 21:04 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-05 00:57 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-04 08:29 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-01 21:26 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-01 23:50 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-01 23:41 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-02 05:07 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-02 12:40 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-01 19:39 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-01 23:52 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-02 12:58 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-02 17:35 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-02 16:56 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-02 16:59 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-02 16:52 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-02 20:45 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-02 20:46 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! "Stephen" <sbriggs99@gmail.com> - 2020-06-04 22:03 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-05 01:07 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! "Stephen" <sbriggs99@gmail.com> - 2020-06-06 23:03 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-06 22:49 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-06 23:18 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-06 21:54 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-07 02:23 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-07 03:59 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-07 07:34 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-07 05:48 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-07 05:51 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-07 10:38 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-07 10:36 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-07 11:59 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Spamster <user@domain.com> - 2020-06-07 04:04 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-07 05:33 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-07 09:41 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! "Stephen" <sbriggs99@gmail.com> - 2020-06-09 14:55 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-16 10:10 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! "Stephen" <sbriggs99@gmail.com> - 2020-06-09 15:09 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-09 13:52 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! "Stephen" <sbriggs99@gmail.com> - 2020-06-09 20:06 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-09 17:16 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! "Stephen" <sbriggs99@gmail.com> - 2020-06-09 20:48 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-09 23:13 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! Dana Haywood <no.way@jos> - 2020-06-09 21:37 -0700
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-10 08:48 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-16 10:12 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! janhaltn@newsguy.com - 2020-06-11 15:44 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-11 20:21 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-16 10:15 -0500
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! janhaltn@newsguy.com - 2020-06-11 15:54 -0400
Re: ok, I am actually making a list, and checking it dozens of times! McGrandpa <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> - 2020-06-11 20:22 -0500
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