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| From | cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.os.development |
| Subject | Re: z/PDOS-generic |
| Date | 2025-03-10 13:50 +0000 |
| Organization | PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC |
| Message-ID | <vqmqn7$e4b$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink) |
| References | <v7bbdt$2fj5a$1@dont-email.me> <87o6ybbeqw.fsf@example.com> <vqit96$1kh$1@reader1.panix.com> <87ikoh13fx.fsf@example.com> |
In article <87ikoh13fx.fsf@example.com>, Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: >cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes: >> [snip] >> >> So it's hard to see how DOS really qualifies as an OS, despite >> the OS-like abstractions it provides. > >Thanks for the explanation. Certainly; happy to do it. >I now think that DOS is useful today in >illustrating the definition (in a negative way) as you just did. I >actually plan to understand more about DOS just to be able to personally >give an answer like that. This, I think, is reasonable. >It also seems very useful precisely to expose a programmer to the entire >machine. But this I'd push back on, at least until I understood the goal a bit better. Is the intent to understand how systems work at a low level? To understand systems architectural more generally? Or as a, "how did we get here?" exercise in systems evolution? While understanding some bits of DOS, the BIOS, and the context around the late 70s/early 80s PC/home computer indistru is essential for the last, for first two, there are other, better ways to understand the machine than studying DOS and the BIOS. And in particular, modern systems, even those built around x86 CPUs, bear little resemblence to the original IBM PC. Personally, I think one is better off coming at things from a fresher, more modern perspective, unencumbered by the follies of the past, as opposed to looking at things through the lens of 1979 Boca Raton. To understand hardware at the most basic level, one would be better off looking at something like the Arduino platform, which is almost stupidly simple, but by design, very approachable. To understand architecture at a more rational level, look at something like RISC-V; x86, and x86_64, carries too much baggage from the past that obfuscates understanding. To understand OS design, or even firmware, there are better examples out there. I'd look at something like MIT's materials for their OS course, in particular xv6. The negative case study aside, or spelunking into the history of the PC platform, I can't think of a good reason to study DOS. Historically important, yes; but otherwise an exemplar of how over-compensating for technical constraints can lead to bad technology. - Dan C.
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z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-07-18 23:07 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-07-18 22:40 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-07-19 18:43 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-19 16:18 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-07-19 17:12 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-19 23:21 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-07-19 23:31 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 01:30 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 07:51 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-07-22 15:22 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 09:07 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-07-22 17:37 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-22 18:07 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-07-22 19:38 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 11:18 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 14:16 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-22 20:14 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 18:03 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-22 23:58 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 23:06 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-21 04:31 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-08-28 02:28 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-28 16:54 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-28 16:58 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-08-28 18:03 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-29 11:14 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-08-30 06:49 -0400
Re: z/PDOS-generic George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-08-30 10:27 -0400
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-31 10:21 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-08-31 15:30 -0400
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-09-03 14:27 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic wolfgang kern <nowhere@never.at> - 2024-08-30 13:29 +0200
Re: z/PDOS-generic Waldek Hebisch <antispam@fricas.org> - 2024-09-03 23:38 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-09-06 07:46 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic J. Curtis <unknown@protocol.invalid> - 2024-09-06 20:08 +0100
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-09-07 08:12 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-01-22 17:34 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic J. Curtis <unknown@protocol.invalid> - 2024-07-20 00:02 +0100
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 14:42 -0300
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-09 02:09 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-09 15:40 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 12:38 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-10 14:49 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 15:00 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 09:21 -0300
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 13:50 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 14:10 -0300
Studying the system (was Re: z/PDOS-generic) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 18:29 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 05:38 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-10 19:07 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 19:09 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 13:00 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 20:20 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 07:59 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 15:11 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 23:11 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 10:51 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:37 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 17:28 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 05:40 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 12:41 -0700
What is an operating system? (was Re: z/PDOS-generic) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 21:00 +0000
Re: What is an operating system? (was Re: z/PDOS-generic) "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 17:30 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 09:04 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:29 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 05:06 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-10 19:01 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:04 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:47 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-11 18:15 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 18:29 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 05:52 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-11 23:05 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 23:48 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-12 02:23 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-12 02:34 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 18:41 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-07-19 09:35 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-21 04:20 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-08-21 09:51 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-22 13:24 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-07-19 19:46 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-21 04:18 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 14:41 -0300
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-09 01:58 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 09:31 -0300
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 14:28 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-10 14:46 +0000
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