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Groups > alt.os.development > #18758
| From | Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.os.development |
| Subject | Re: z/PDOS-generic |
| Date | 2025-03-10 09:21 -0300 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <87ikoh13fx.fsf@example.com> (permalink) |
| References | <v7bbdt$2fj5a$1@dont-email.me> <v7dg52$2uvnf$1@dont-email.me> <9lwmO.48820$ySE.16060@fx11.iad> <87o6ybbeqw.fsf@example.com> <vqit96$1kh$1@reader1.panix.com> |
cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes: > In article <87o6ybbeqw.fsf@example.com>, > Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> wrote: >>scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes: >> >>> "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> writes: >>>>Sure - but why not make it available anyway? >>> >>> MS-DOS is, was, and always will be a toy. It's not even >>> a real operating system. >> >>And why is that? Is it mainly because it doesn't time-share the CPU? > > It depends on your definition of an operating system, I suppose. > I like the definition Mothy Roscoe (ETH) used in his OSDI'21 > keynote: > > The operating system is that body of software that: > 1. Multiplexes the machine's hardware resources > 2. Abstracts the hardware platform > 3. Protects software princples from each other > (using the hardare) Thanks for the definition and the reference. > It's hard to see how MS-DOS fits that definition in a meaningful > way. Does it multiplex the machine's hardware resources? Well, > no; not really. While it does provide a primitive filesystem, > and exposes some interface for memory management, it only lets > one program run at a time, and that program doesn't have to use > or honor DOS's filesystem or memory management stuff. Further, > the system interface is inexorably tied to the hardware; it's > defined in terms of synchronous software traps and specific > register values. System calls are numbered, not named. > Finally, the last one is really the nail in the coffin: MS-DOS > makes absolutely no effort to protect the software principles > from each other, or even themselves; a user program can take > over and just never cede control back to DOS. > > So it's hard to see how DOS really qualifies as an OS, despite > the OS-like abstractions it provides. Thanks for the explanation. I now think that DOS is useful today in illustrating the definition (in a negative way) as you just did. I actually plan to understand more about DOS just to be able to personally give an answer like that. It also seems very useful precisely to expose a programmer to the entire machine.
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z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-07-18 23:07 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-07-18 22:40 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-07-19 18:43 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-19 16:18 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB-Alt <bohannonindustriesllc@gmail.com> - 2024-07-19 17:12 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-19 23:21 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-07-19 23:31 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 01:30 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 07:51 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-07-22 15:22 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 09:07 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-07-22 17:37 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-22 18:07 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-07-22 19:38 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 11:18 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 14:16 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-22 20:14 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 18:03 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-07-22 23:58 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 23:06 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-21 04:31 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-08-28 02:28 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-28 16:54 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-28 16:58 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2024-08-28 18:03 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-29 11:14 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-08-30 06:49 -0400
Re: z/PDOS-generic George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-08-30 10:27 -0400
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-31 10:21 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2024-08-31 15:30 -0400
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-09-03 14:27 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic wolfgang kern <nowhere@never.at> - 2024-08-30 13:29 +0200
Re: z/PDOS-generic Waldek Hebisch <antispam@fricas.org> - 2024-09-03 23:38 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-09-06 07:46 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic J. Curtis <unknown@protocol.invalid> - 2024-09-06 20:08 +0100
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-09-07 08:12 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-01-22 17:34 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic J. Curtis <unknown@protocol.invalid> - 2024-07-20 00:02 +0100
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 14:42 -0300
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-09 02:09 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-09 15:40 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 12:38 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-10 14:49 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 15:00 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 09:21 -0300
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 13:50 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 14:10 -0300
Studying the system (was Re: z/PDOS-generic) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 18:29 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 05:38 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-10 19:07 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 19:09 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 13:00 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 20:20 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 07:59 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-10 15:11 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 23:11 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 10:51 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:37 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 17:28 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 05:40 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 12:41 -0700
What is an operating system? (was Re: z/PDOS-generic) cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 21:00 +0000
Re: What is an operating system? (was Re: z/PDOS-generic) "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 17:30 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 09:04 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:29 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 05:06 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-10 19:01 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:04 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-11 08:47 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-11 18:15 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 18:29 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 05:52 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-11 23:05 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-11 23:48 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-03-12 02:23 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-12 02:34 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2025-03-12 18:41 +1100
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-07-19 09:35 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-21 04:20 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-08-21 09:51 -0700
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-22 13:24 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-07-19 19:46 -0500
Re: z/PDOS-generic "Paul Edwards" <mutazilah@gmail.com> - 2024-08-21 04:18 +0800
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-08 14:41 -0300
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-09 01:58 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic Salvador Mirzo <smirzo@example.com> - 2025-03-10 09:31 -0300
Re: z/PDOS-generic cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2025-03-10 14:28 +0000
Re: z/PDOS-generic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-03-10 14:46 +0000
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