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Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully

From olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully
Date 2024-07-21 09:19 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <v7j5dv$3o7r$7@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <v7hnu6$3pd9s$1@dont-email.me> <f0dda3e0d0e85081d8ce0cdd494f5f1f8f8c89e3@i2pn2.org> <v7huen$3u1jc$3@dont-email.me> <v7hvdo$3ua28$1@dont-email.me> <d818787a167fc3b04a87c6386c5e3c746cec8738@i2pn2.org>

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On 7/21/2024 4:05 AM, joes wrote:
> Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:31:04 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 7/20/2024 10:14 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/20/2024 8:46 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 7/20/24 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> When an actual x86 emulator stops emulating its input this emulated
>>>>> input immediately stops running.

> The input doesn't even run. The simulator is the only thing in execution.
Yes.

>>>> The SIMULATION is an observation of the program, that if it stops
>>>> doesn't affect the actual behavior of the program in question.
>>> *If the simulator stops simulating then the simulated stops running*

> The simulated program would still be non-halting.
Yes.

> 
>>> DDD *correctly simulated* by pure function HHH cannot possibly reach
>>> its own return instruction.
>> Only DDD correctly emulated by HHH maps the finite string of the x86
>> machine code of DDD to the behavior that it actually specifies.

> Almost correct. Other simulators may map it too, to the behaviour
> of the direct execution. HHH doesn't.
> 
No decider is ever allowed to report on the behavior of the
actual computation that itself is contained within because
all deciders only take finite string inputs and thus never
take a directly executing process as an input.

HHH is not allowed to report on the directly executed
HHH(DDD) that int main() { DDD(); } calls or the directly
executed DDD() that calls it.

A Turing machine can report on the behavior that a finite
string specifies. It cannot report on the behavior of any
executing Turing machine including its own executing Turing
machine.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 10:28 -0500
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 12:01 -0400
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 13:52 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:38 -0400
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:00 +0200
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 14:09 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:36 +0200
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:02 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 16:10 -0400
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:29 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:04 -0400
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:24 +0200
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:20 +0200
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 20:03 +0000
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:08 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 21:19 +0000
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 11:06 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:25 +0200
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:25 -0500
                Re: Recursive simulation (was: Hypothetical possibilities) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:37 +0000
                Re: Recursive simulation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:53 -0500
                Re: Recursive simulation "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:45 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:42 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 20:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:41 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:15 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:25 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:34 +0200
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:27 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:47 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:10 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:02 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 11:10 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:11 +0200
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-22 18:33 +0000
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Liar? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 13:39 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 15:00 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:35 +0200
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:26 +0300
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-23 17:38 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 13:12 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:47 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 22:15 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 21:51 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Olcott is a Mindless robots programmed to disagree Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 23:09 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-24 11:13 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-25 12:49 +0300
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 10:53 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:50 -0400
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:05 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-20 21:06 +0000
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:17 -0400
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:21 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:11 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 17:47 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 19:00 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 18:06 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 20:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 19:21 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:01 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:46 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:52 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:01 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:14 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:31 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 09:05 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:19 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:33 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:37 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:51 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:15 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 07:37 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 08:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:24 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:54 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 10:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:51 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 23:49 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 07:27 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 07:47 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully --- correction olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:35 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:51 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:54 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:10 -0400
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-22 14:05 +0300
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:05 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:32 +0300
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:41 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-24 12:01 +0300
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-24 08:38 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-26 11:05 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-26 08:58 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-27 09:54 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 08:55 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:45 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:59 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 10:30 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:12 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:10 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-29 20:20 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 15:36 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:41 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 13:42 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:21 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 20:32 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:34 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 21:13 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid lying rebuttal by Olcott --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by Olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 23:09 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-31 10:44 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-31 10:14 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-31 22:01 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-31 16:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-08-01 07:20 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 06:28 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 13:46 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 10:10 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-01 11:02 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:04 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:17 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:44 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:11 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-01 11:14 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:41 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:50 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:59 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:21 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:13 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:35 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-01 11:20 +0300

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