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Groups > comp.theory > #109281

Re: Hypothetical possibilities

From Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy
Subject Re: Hypothetical possibilities
Date 2024-07-20 12:01 -0400
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <bd3d4fcbef5ae30e9d2e81d3fd8de055f38f30ca@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References <v7gl30$3j9fi$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 7/20/24 11:28 AM, olcott wrote:
> void DDD()
> {
>    HHH(DDD);
> }
> 
> int main()
> {
>    DDD();
> }
> 
> (a) Termination Analyzers / Partial Halt Deciders must halt
> this is a design requirement.

I don't know where you got the false idea that "Termination Analyzers" 
were "Partial Halt Deciders", then most certainly are not.

Read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termination_analysis for a 
description, they deal with the related problem of determining if the 
input program will halt for *ALL* inputs, not just a given one.


Yes, in computer science, where the building of partial Termination 
Analyzers is an ongoing project, they often just drop the assumed 
partial as everyone know the general problem is not universally solvable.

Also, the answer must be correct,

and the input must be a PROGRAM, which mean it includes ALL its code 
that it uses, so for DDD, include the code for HHH.

> 
> (b) Every simulating termination analyzer HHH either
> aborts the simulation of its input or not.
> 
> (c) Within the hypothetical case where HHH does not abort
> the simulation of its input {HHH, emulated DDD and executed DDD}
> never stop running.

But that is a DIFFERENT DDD then the one given to the HHH that aborted 
it emulation, and thus your logic is based on LYING.

We can given the input it the aborting HHH to another emulator which 
doesn't abort, and as long as we don't change the input, and thus that 
DDD calls that same HHH that aborts, we see that HHH was incorrect in 
its need to abort THIS input.

> 
> This violates the design requirement of (a) therefore HHH must
> abort the simulation of its input.
> 

Right, and shows that the problem can not be solved (at least not with 
this method). Not that a wrong answer is correct.

The Flibble varient does handle this input, so it just shows that your 
program isn't good enough, but a better one does exist.

You are just proving that you think lying is ok, and thus agree with the 
Election and Climate Change deniers.

Sorry, but I can't let you get away with that.

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Thread

Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 10:28 -0500
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 12:01 -0400
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 13:52 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:38 -0400
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:00 +0200
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 14:09 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:36 +0200
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:02 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 16:10 -0400
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:29 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:04 -0400
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:24 +0200
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:20 +0200
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 20:03 +0000
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:08 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 21:19 +0000
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 11:06 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:25 +0200
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:25 -0500
                Re: Recursive simulation (was: Hypothetical possibilities) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:37 +0000
                Re: Recursive simulation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:53 -0500
                Re: Recursive simulation "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:45 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:42 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 20:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:41 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:15 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:25 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:34 +0200
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:27 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:47 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:10 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:02 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 11:10 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:11 +0200
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-22 18:33 +0000
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Liar? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 13:39 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 15:00 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:35 +0200
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:26 +0300
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-23 17:38 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 13:12 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:47 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 22:15 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 21:51 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Olcott is a Mindless robots programmed to disagree Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 23:09 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-24 11:13 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-25 12:49 +0300
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 10:53 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:50 -0400
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:05 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-20 21:06 +0000
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:17 -0400
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:21 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:11 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 17:47 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 19:00 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 18:06 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 20:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 19:21 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:01 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:46 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:52 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:01 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:14 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:31 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 09:05 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:19 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:33 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:37 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:51 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:15 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 07:37 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 08:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:24 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:54 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 10:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:51 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 23:49 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 07:27 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 07:47 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully --- correction olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:35 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:51 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:54 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:10 -0400
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-22 14:05 +0300
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:05 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:32 +0300
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:41 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-24 12:01 +0300
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-24 08:38 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-26 11:05 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-26 08:58 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-27 09:54 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 08:55 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:45 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:59 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 10:30 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:12 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:10 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-29 20:20 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 15:36 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:41 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 13:42 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:21 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:04 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:17 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:44 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:11 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:41 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:50 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:59 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:21 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:13 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:35 -0500

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