Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal

From	Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups	comp.theory
Subject	Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal
Date	2024-07-30 21:21 -0400
Organization	i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID	<ea673a5b4ed43fbddf938c69bd013b0cf2ca325d@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References	(10 earlier) <v82u9d$3dftr$3@dont-email.me> <v8306v$3c7$1@news.muc.de> <v83161$3dftr$11@dont-email.me> <v84udt$3rp4t$1@dont-email.me> <v8bc6j$159av$1@dont-email.me>

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On 7/30/24 2:42 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/28/2024 3:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-27 14:45:21 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 7/27/2024 9:28 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 7/27/2024 1:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> If a simulator correctly simulates a finite number of instructions
>>>>>> where x86 program specifies an execution of an infinite number of
>>>>>> instructions then the simulation deviates from x86 semantics at the
>>>>>> point where the simulation stops but the x86 semantics specify
>>>>>> countinuation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In other words you believe that instead of recognizing a
>>>>> non-halting behavior pattern, then aborting the simulation
>>>>> and rejecting the input as non-halting the termination
>>>>> analyzer should just get stuck in recursive simulation?
>>>>
>>>> You're doing it again.  "In other words" is here a lie; you've just
>>>> replaced Mikko's words with something very different.
>>>>
>>>
>>> He just said that the simulation of a non-terminating input
>>> is incorrect unless it is simulated forever.
>>
>> I said it deviates form the x86 semantics. I didn't say whether it is
>> incorrect to deviate from x86 semantics. 
> 
> The measure of DDD correctly emulated by HHH
>     until HHH correctly determines that its emulated DDD would never
>      stop running unless aborted...
> 
> is that the emulation of DDD by HHH
> *DOES NOT DEVIATE FROM THE X86 SEMANTICS*

Which frst means it must emulate per the x86 semantics, which means the 
call to HHH must be followed by the emulation of the x86 instructions of 
HHH, not something else.

And since that is the exact same code as this HHH, if this HHH decides 
to abort and return 0 to its called, the emulated HHH, if correctly 
emulated to the end, will also abort its emulating and return to its 
called, which is DDD, and thus that correct emulation will halt, means 
that it is impossible for HHH to "correctly determine" that the correct 
x86 emulation of its input would not halt, since it does.

Your logic of looking at a CHANGED input, just shows that you don't 
understand the flawed logic of that operation. That is just as bad as 
thinking your pet cat is a 15 story office building.

> 
>> But it is incorrect to say
>> "off topic" on the basis of not following x86 semantics when your
>> "on topic" deviates from the x86 semantics as much as what I ask about
>> in my "off topic" question.
>>
>

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Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-22 14:05 +0300
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:05 -0500
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:32 +0300
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:41 -0500
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-24 12:01 +0300
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-24 08:38 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-26 11:05 +0300
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-26 08:58 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-27 09:54 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 08:55 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:45 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:59 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 10:30 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:12 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:10 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-29 20:20 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 15:36 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:41 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 13:42 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:21 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 20:32 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:34 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 21:13 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid lying rebuttal by Olcott --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by Olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 23:09 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-31 10:44 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-31 10:14 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-31 22:01 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-31 16:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-08-01 07:20 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 06:28 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 13:46 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 07:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 15:03 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 08:11 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 16:26 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- INCorrect emulation has been proven for three years Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-01 19:33 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 10:10 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 07:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 15:12 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 08:29 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 16:23 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 09:30 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 16:36 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 10:49 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 21:40 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-08-01 16:11 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 11:32 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 21:30 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 16:03 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-02 10:13 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-02 06:24 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof *FAILED* Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 10:41 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-03 10:25 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-03 11:54 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Completly incorrect Proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-01 19:33 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-02 13:19 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-02 06:21 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof *FAILED* Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 10:41 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-03 11:58 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-02 13:12 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-02 06:11 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof *FAILS* Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 10:41 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-03 12:07 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-08-02 18:39 +0100
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-02 12:57 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof *FAILED* Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 14:32 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 14:25 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-08-02 23:23 +0100
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-02 17:35 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 19:15 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-08-02 23:42 +0100
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-08-02 17:55 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 19:17 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-08-03 02:19 +0100
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 21:56 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof -- more details olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-02 22:30 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete FAILED Proof -- more details Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-03 11:33 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2024-08-02 22:32 -0600
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof --- Halt State olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-03 08:27 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof --- halt state olcott <abc@def.com> - 2024-08-05 19:26 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-08-05 03:33 +0100
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <abc@def.com> - 2024-08-04 22:56 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-05 07:40 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <abc@def.com> - 2024-08-05 19:41 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Completely *FAILED* Proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-05 21:32 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <abc@def.com> - 2024-08-05 19:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-02 19:12 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-08-03 04:11 +0100
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-02 22:36 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-03 12:29 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Complete Proof Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-03 12:14 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-01 11:02 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 07:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-03 12:31 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:04 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:17 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:44 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:11 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-01 11:14 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 07:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-03 12:35 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:41 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:50 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:59 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:21 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:13 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:35 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-01 11:20 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-08-01 07:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-08-01 19:33 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-03 12:42 +0300

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