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Re: Hypothetical possibilities

From "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Hypothetical possibilities
Date 2024-07-21 12:25 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <v7inno$1uji$3@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <v7h1fl$3lcvq$3@dont-email.me> <v7h224$3li66$3@dont-email.me> <v7h3je$3lcvq$6@dont-email.me> <v7h55o$2a60$1@news.muc.de> <v7h5fi$3m6kq$3@dont-email.me>

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Op 20.jul.2024 om 22:08 schreef olcott:
> On 7/20/2024 3:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> [ Followup-To: set ]
>>
>> In comp.theory Fred. Zwarts <F.Zwarts@hetnet.nl> wrote:
>>
>> [ .... ]
>>
>>> Olcott could not point to an error, but prefers to ignore it. So, I will
>>> repeat it, until either an error is found, or olcott admits that HHH
>>> cannot possibly simulate itself correctly.
>>
>> This has the disadvantage of making your posts boring to read.  All but
>> one poster on this newsgroup KNOW that Olcott is wrong, here.
>>
>> Continually repeating your argument won't get him to admit he's wrong.
>> Richard has been trying that for much longer than you have, with the
>> same lack of success.  Olcott's lack of capacity for abstract reasoning,
>> combined with his ignorance, combined with his arrogance, prevent him
>> learning at all.
>>
>> May I suggest that you reconsider your strategy of endless repetition?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
> 
> So you are going to stupidly disagree with this?
> 
> void DDD()
> {
>    HHH(DDD);
>    return;
> }
> 
> It *is* a fact that no DDD correctly simulated by any
> pure function HHH ever reaches its own return instruction.

Which proves that these simulations are incorrect.


DDD is a misleading and unneeded complication. It is easy to eliminate DDD:

        int main() {
          return HHH(main);
        }

This has the same problem. This proves that the problem is not in DDD, 
but in HHH, which halts when it aborts the simulation, but it decides 
that the simulation of itself does not halt.
It shows that HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly.

HHH is simply unable to decide about finite recursions.

void Finite_Recursion (int N) {
   if (N > 0) Finite_Recursion (N - 1);
}

It decides after N recursions that there is an infinite recursion, which 
is incorrect.

Olcott's HHH is programmed to abort the simulation after N cycles of 
recursive simulations. Therefore, it is incorrect to abort the 
simulation of HHH when the simulated HHH has performed only N-1 cycles, 
because that changes the behaviour of HHH.
Since the simulated HHH always runs one cycle behind the simulating HHH, 
it is clear that HHH can never simulate enough cycles for a correct 
simulation, as is required by the x86 language.
Therefore, the simulation is incorrect according to the criteria olcott 
stipulated.
The conclusion is simple:
HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly.

No matter how much olcott wants it to be correct, or how many times 
olcott repeats that it is correct, it does not change the fact that such 
a simulation is incorrect, because it is unable to reach the end.
Olcott's own claim that the simulated HHH does not reach its end 
confirms it. The trace he has shown also proves that HHH cannot reach 
the end of its own simulation. So, his own claims prove that it is true 
that HHH cannot possibly simulate itself up to the end, which makes the 
simulation incorrect.

Sipser would agree that this incorrect simulation cannot be used to 
detect a non-halting behaviour.

Olcott does not know how to point to an error in this explanation, but 
prefers to ignore it. He even consistently removes it from the 
citations. So, I will repeat it, until either an error is found, or 
olcott admits that HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly.

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Thread

Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 10:28 -0500
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 12:01 -0400
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 13:52 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:38 -0400
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:00 +0200
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 14:09 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:36 +0200
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:02 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 16:10 -0400
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:29 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:04 -0400
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:24 +0200
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:20 +0200
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 20:03 +0000
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:08 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 21:19 +0000
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 11:06 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:25 +0200
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:25 -0500
                Re: Recursive simulation (was: Hypothetical possibilities) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:37 +0000
                Re: Recursive simulation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:53 -0500
                Re: Recursive simulation "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:45 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:42 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 20:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:41 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:15 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:25 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:34 +0200
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:27 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:47 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:10 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:02 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 11:10 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:11 +0200
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-22 18:33 +0000
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Liar? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 13:39 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 15:00 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:35 +0200
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:26 +0300
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-23 17:38 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 13:12 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:47 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 22:15 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 21:51 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Olcott is a Mindless robots programmed to disagree Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 23:09 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-24 11:13 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-25 12:49 +0300
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 10:53 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:50 -0400
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:05 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-20 21:06 +0000
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:17 -0400
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:21 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:11 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 17:47 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 19:00 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 18:06 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 20:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 19:21 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:01 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:46 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:52 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:01 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:14 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:31 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 09:05 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:19 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:33 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:37 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:51 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:15 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 07:37 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 08:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:24 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:54 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 10:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:51 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 23:49 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 07:27 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 07:47 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully --- correction olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:35 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:51 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:54 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:10 -0400
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-22 14:05 +0300
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:05 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:32 +0300
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:41 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-24 12:01 +0300
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-24 08:38 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-26 11:05 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-26 08:58 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-27 09:54 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 08:55 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:45 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:59 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 10:30 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:12 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:10 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-29 20:20 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 15:36 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:41 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 13:42 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:21 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 20:32 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:34 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 21:13 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid lying rebuttal by Olcott --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by Olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 23:09 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-31 10:44 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-31 10:14 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-31 22:01 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-31 16:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-08-01 07:20 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Correct emulation has been proven for three years "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-08-01 10:10 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-08-01 11:02 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:04 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:17 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:44 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:11 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:41 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:50 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:59 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:21 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:13 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:35 -0500

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